Show, don't tell. In pnp games... yeah...

[Yora]

The descussion about describing the maimed remains of victims in a horror game had me thinking of highly important storytelling tool "Show, don't tell".

Now in a purely verbal medium like pen and paper games, you can't really get around describing and explaining things, but to some extend that is true of books as well.
But I think the principle still applies. You don't tell the players that something is horrible, but you should rather keep it to the facts and let them come to the conclusion that it's horrible by themselves.

What methods are you using to achieve these effects?

[Crazyfailure13]

In a game that uses writing and spoken word to define the world around the characters, it'd be tricky at best to allow their minds to create the image without clear information, perhaps giving a view of the actions that caused the wounds, if they just saw a man get stabbed in the shoulder they could run over and imagine the wound, a bleeding hole in the shoulder..

[Fouredged Sword]

I prefer both show AND tell.

You can tell them something
You can have a character talk about something
AND
you can have a character react to something.

Always hit them over the head with a hammer about the details and repeat anything you want to impress upon them with all three. Use imagery, expression, and empathy.

The city of Anderdale is majestic, with towering spires of crystal leaping to the heavens.

"good lord, I never thought it would be so beautiful" quietly intones Malic, as he...

...looks up and out over the city, a look of splendor in his eyes.

For lesser events pick any two.

There is a new guest at the table. -
He is slovenly and smells or rancid rats.
"You could have bathed before meeting us in public" Borhem responds to the new arrival.
Borhem turns his nose and takes a deep swig of his ale to wipe the taste of the air from is tongue.

Pick any two so

There is a new guest at the table. He is slovenly and smells or rancid rats. "You could have bathed before meeting us in public" Borhem responds to the new arrival.

OR

There is a new guest at the table. "You could have bathed before meeting us in public" Borhem responds to the new arrival. Borhem turns his nose and takes a deep swig of his ale to wipe the taste of the air from is tongue.

OR

There is a new guest at the table. He is slovenly and smells or rancid rats. Borhem turns his nose and takes a deep swig of his ale to wipe the taste of the air from is tongue.

All these get the point across, the lesson is to not just use a single point or the same set of points each time. Mix things up to give the reader a variety of ways there are receiving information and ALWAYS hit any point you want to sink in at least twice.

Past that it is all a matter of one thing - Colorful description! Colorful description! Colorful description! Adjective! Adverb! Color! Color! Color!

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I think you can do both. I also think that mechanics are really good for the "tell" half. If you use mechanics as a tool for "telling", and your descriptions/interactions as a tool for "showing", you can go a way. For instance...

Player: I threaten the thug, putting a hand on my sword.
GM: That's a DC 17 Intimidate.
Player: [rolls a 14 total] Blast.
GM: The thug grunts, adopting a more solid stance, ready for a fight. "I'm done with you."

In this case, the mechanics Tell the player that their intimidation attempt failed, which is strong enough that the GM doesn't need to reinforce it redundantly.

Also note that "telling" is a nice shortcut to keep the action flowing briskly. One common problem in RPGs is when players slow things down by floridly describing what they're doing. You don't need that; cut to the action--What you're doing, Why you're doing it, How you're doing it.

[Ravens_cry]

Show don't tell means showing the attributes given to characters and creatures. Don't just say the merchant is greedy, provide examples in your dialogue and description. Don't just say the monster is scary and evil, have it do scary and evil things. The evil king isn't just evil, he does evil things that hurt the kingdom.
All this takes more work, but is much more effective for immersion.

[Gnomish Wanderer]

I tend to sketch a lot of what I'm describing as I'm describing it, so I am often able to show AND tell players about what I'm envisioning :smalltongue: But I agree, showing is much better than telling. Use physical adjectives like 'red' or 'curved' rather than conceptual like 'menacing' or 'majestic'. NEVER describe an NPC's personality in third person, always just play them as that personality and actions such a personality would do. Bring your game to life.

[Dr Bwaa]

Show don't tell means showing the attributes given to characters and creatures. Don't just say the merchant is greedy, provide examples in your dialogue and description. Don't just say the monster is scary and evil, have it do scary and evil things. The evil king isn't just evil, he does evil things that hurt the kingdom.
All this takes more work, but is much more effective for immersion.

QFT. This is what "show, don't tell" means. It's not about drawing being better than words, or anything like that; it's just a common bit of advice for good writing.

The point is that saying "The Goblin is terrified of you" is boring and contrived, whereas "The Goblin drops his club and begins taking tiny steps backward, quivering violently" gives a vivid scene to imagine and communicates the intent ("the Goblin is terrified of you") much more effectively.

[Lord Il Palazzo]

The descussion about describing the maimed remains of victims in a horror game had me thinking of highly important storytelling tool "Show, don't tell".

Now in a purely verbal medium like pen and paper games, you can't really get around describing and explaining things, but to some extend that is true of books as well.
But I think the principle still applies. You don't tell the players that something is horrible, but you should rather keep it to the facts and let them come to the conclusion that it's horrible by themselves.

What methods are you using to achieve these effects?For gruesome sights, I prefer to give just enough information to start the player's imaginations working and then leave them to do the rest. You could go into all kinds of detail about a mutilated body, but just saying that the body's in the middle of a well furnished room and that bood and gore are splattered on nearly every surface can be enough to get the reaction you want. Going overboard on that kind of thing is distasteful and may backfire if taken far enough to become a sort of black comedy. I may add a bit of windowdressing, like describing a rookie guardsman looking distinctly uncomfortable or slightly sick as he enters the room, but I keep the scene itself to a few juicy details.

It also helps to mention senses that might not be obvious. Sure the scene looks bad, but mentioning that the air is thick with the smells of blood, the buzzing of flies that have already started to gather or the carpet underfoot being soggy with blood sets the stage and can make a player imagine what it would look like without descibing much visual detail.

[Ravens_cry]

It also helps to mention senses that might not be obvious. Sure the scene looks bad, but mentioning that the air is thick with the smells of blood, the buzzing of flies that have already started to gather or the carpet underfoot being soggy with blood sets the stage and can make a player imagine what it would look like without descibing much visual detail.
Definitely, definitely! Drawing as many senses as you can reasonably fit definitely help build immersion. Scent is especially good because it is so tightly keyed to memory and emotion. Describing a homey place that smells of home baked bread can create a sense of peace, for example. This can be exploited, perhaps a pile of burning corpses smells of roasted meat.
Creating something off is a wonderful way to create mystery and even horror. Imagine coming across a busy market place, the happy sounds of people buying and selling, merchants and customers crying out and friendly haggling and arguments, the many coloured awnings and tents flashing bright in the sunlight. A cheerful, bustling scene.
Now add a sour note.
Perhaps there is a faint but distinct scent of rot and decay in the air.
Something is not right, and the players will, hopefully, be more than a little perturbed and want to find out what is going on.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I'd advise keeping it all short and to-the-point, though. We're not trying to write the Great American Novel here, we're just playing a game. To that end, intense and overly colorful descriptions (though immersive) can interfere with the flow of the game.

It's similar to the non-interactive cutscene problem (http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=937); the GM can get a massive description worked up, which the players just gloss over. (Alternate nickname: the "boxed text" problem, after those pat bits of boxed text in RPG adventures which really only serve to demonstrate the writer's descriptive prowess.)

[kyoryu]

QFT. This is what "show, don't tell" means. It's not about drawing being better than words, or anything like that; it's just a common bit of advice for good writing.

The point is that saying "The Goblin is terrified of you" is boring and contrived, whereas "The Goblin drops his club and begins taking tiny steps backward, quivering violently" gives a vivid scene to imagine and communicates the intent ("the Goblin is terrified of you") much more effectively.

"X is Y" is often a warning sign, provided that "Y" is not a pure physical description ("made of brass", "glowing faintly", etc.)

Another good piece of advice is to avoid adverbs, especially "ly" ones. "The thug quickly stands up" is pretty lame compared to "the thug stands up, knocking his chair over in haste".

The first one *tells* you that the thug is moving quickly. The second one *shows* you that he's moving quickly by the results.

[ArcturusV]

I think the biggest problem with a lot of games played by Posts, Email, Mail, Instant Messenger, and otherwise written content is the writing style most people use. I wrote an article about it once for a Roleplaying Site about "Action vs Narrative".

Most people default to a Narrative style, where they say things like, "And Alan stood on the cliff, looking out to sea, daydreaming of a quiet life back in the fishing village he was raised in."

And people respond as if they know he's daydreaming.

Now if you take the same scene but you write it Action style and go, "Alan stands near the precipice of the cliff. His eyes are on the setting sun over the waves, watching the water turn a golden color in the fading light. His shoulders slump and he lets out a quiet sigh."

It covers the same things. You might even guess that he's thinking about something he misses. But it's not blatantly obvious and there's always the chance that even more metagame based RPers will misunderstand what he's doing. Something that almost never happens with a Narrative style.

So particularly when I DM those sorts of games I really stress myself to use an "Action" style of writing. Similarly around the table I tend to practice the same things you learn telling ghost stories around a campfire. How and when to use volume, tone, minute things like how you sit, which details to mention, which to not. It's an art form though again it is based on only telling players more or less what they can actually sense in the world only.

[Lord Il Palazzo]

Another good piece of advice is to avoid adverbs, especially "ly" ones. "The thug quickly stands up" is pretty lame compared to "the thug stands up, knocking his chair over in haste".

The first one *tells* you that the thug is moving quickly. The second one *shows* you that he's moving quickly by the results.I hadn't heard this advice before, but it makes a lot of sense. I usually try to use more interesting verbs which goes along with avoiding overreliance on adverbs; in my game, the thug might "jump to his feet, his head whipping back and forth as he looks for the source of the noise" or "shoot out of his chair in a mad dash for the door" rather than just "stand quickly".

[Yora]

I think one way to rephrase the title for RPGs would be "verbs, not adjectives".

Don't tell that a creature, object, or location has certain properties. Instead describe what's actually present and happening. Monsters are not just strong, they either look muscular or perform things that show their strength.

Like the previous comment, describe only what is actually physically present. Avoid any form of judgement or interpretation. That's also what you always get hammered in in communication sciences. Interpretation always depends entirely on the observer and when you make interpretations for the players it takes away control of their characters. Which I think is quite likely to also encourage just going with the plot as planned by the GM instead of attempting to be proactive.

[valadil]

I've approached "show don't tell" from a PC opinions point of view. You can't tell the players what sort of opinions their characters have. You show them the facts and let them come to their own conclusions about them.

For instance, if I told your knight that the monster was scary, you're reaction would probably be to be defiant. He's scary to everyone else, but not to my paladin of justice! Instead give the players the facts about the monster. It's 20 feet tall, has more teeth than you can count, and is currently eating your knight commander (who you happen to know is 5 levels higher than you). Then your PC might actually be scared.

[kyoryu]

I hadn't heard this advice before, but it makes a lot of sense. I usually try to use more interesting verbs which goes along with avoiding overreliance on adverbs; in my game, the thug might "jump to his feet, his head whipping back and forth as he looks for the source of the noise" or "shoot out of his chair in a mad dash for the door" rather than just "stand quickly".

http://beattiesbookblog.blogspot.com/2012/03/stephen-king-on-adverbs.html


I've approached "show don't tell" from a PC opinions point of view. You can't tell the players what sort of opinions their characters have. You show them the facts and let them come to their own conclusions about them.

Yeah. "General Salmond and Doctor Kripke don't like each other." Weak.

"General Salmond says 'On *my* ship, the Kriegszeppelin Vaklyrie' (deliberately mispronounced) he says with a glance and Doctor Kripke, 'I expect rules of military decorum to be followed. I now introduce you to Doctor Kripke. As the designer of this vessel, he has graciously agreed to accompany us on this journey, though I remind everyone that he has no place in the chain of command.'"

Okay, the second one is longer, but is there any doubt of the dislike the two men have for each other? Doesn't it give a bit more flavor of the relationship between the two?

[Lord Il Palazzo]

http://beattiesbookblog.blogspot.com/2012/03/stephen-king-on-adverbs.htmlVery nice.

I've approached "show don't tell" from a PC opinions point of view. You can't tell the players what sort of opinions their characters have. You show them the facts and let them come to their own conclusions about them.I'll admit to having trouble with this. I often find myself starting into sentences like "From how he's looking around, you get the feeling he's waiting for someone." when it's just a little more work to say "He's sitting at a small table near the front of the tavern, in a spot with a good view of the door. Each time the door opens, his head twitches to the left to look at the newcomer but he's otherwise occupied drumming his fingers on the table and staring intently out the front window."

The only time I tell a player what their character feels without kicking myself for it when I catch myself is when the emotion's being forced on them as part of some game mechanic, like with a fear-inducing spell or ability making a PC flee in terror.

[Yora]

"From how he's looking around, you get the feeling he's waiting for someone."
"He is looking around as if he is waiting for someone." Minor difference, but you avoid telling the players what their characters are thinking. If they think he is actually waiting for something or doing something else is left to them. And I think this small change does actually make a real difference in the long run to get players to take initiative more often.

[Lord Il Palazzo]

"He is looking around as if he is waiting for someone." Minor difference, but you avoid telling the players what their characters are thinking. If they think he is actually waiting for something or doing something else is left to them. And I think this small change does actually make a real difference in the long run to get players to take initiative more often.A good point. My problem is that I keep defaulting to the first one and having to catch myself.

[Scow2]

http://beattiesbookblog.blogspot.com/2012/03/stephen-king-on-adverbs.html
Professional Authors follow this advice and editors force it on them? No wonder I find most books I read (Especially Stephan King books) to veer between "Boring" and "incomprehensible and still boring".

The rest of the advice in this thread is far much better, though.

[Synovia]

I prefer both show AND tell.

You can tell them something
You can have a character talk about something
AND
you can have a character react to something.


I think you're not understadning here. These are both forms of showing. They're the character doing something.


Here's an example of show vs tell:

Tell:
Jim was furious. He was so angry.

Show:
Jim's face turned red, and he slammed his fist down on the table.

The second one shows you that Jim is angry without explicitly telling you that he was.



Past that it is all a matter of one thing - Colorful description! Colorful description! Colorful description! Adjective! Adverb! Color! Color! Color!

Adverbs are the bane of writing. Yes, they have occasional uses, but most of the time, you'd be better off picking a more accurate verb. "jim quickly ran" should be "jim sprinted"

They're often redundant. IE, "jim quietly snuck".... snuck implies quietly.

Adjectives are overused by most novice writers.