Incarum Argument goes on.... [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

GutterFace

2013-01-30, 01:42 PM

OK! we have some shenanigans here. lets see if we can sort this out before the start of our next campaign.

we have a Wizard 3/Druid 5 with an animal companion and familiar. thus far...

he also took Shape Soulmeld: SoulSpark Familiar. AND....share soulmeld.

1) does his Share Soulmeld apply to BOTH the WIZ familiar AND the animal companion

if so...

2) do BOTH the familiar and animal companion generate a soulspark familiar??? all linked and sharing spells?!?!?

8wGremlin

2013-01-30, 01:56 PM

Fouredged Sword

2013-01-30, 02:07 PM

I like this idea. Now go into a PRC that grants more animal companions.

KEKEKEKE Zerg rush of expendable glowing balls!!!!

GutterFace

2013-01-30, 02:19 PM

yea if you have a race that has essentia and or the feat....and like Beastmaster/Beast Heart Adept....etc.

yea glowballs everywhere.

wild.

Person_Man

2013-01-30, 02:49 PM

The poorly named Soulspark Familiar soulmeld does not grant you a Familiar. It summons a Soulspark, which you control. It does not meet the definition of Familiar or Animal Companion for the Share Soulmeld feat. If your DM is nice and just gives it to you, then it basically doubles the power of the Incarnate or Totemist. (Which could either be a bad thing or a good thing, depending on your party).

Fouredged Sword

2013-01-30, 02:52 PM

GutterFace

2013-01-30, 02:54 PM

Fourledged sword you are correct!

this is going to be hilarious to try out. at least at lower levels.

Psyren

2013-01-30, 03:11 PM

Soulsparks are nice at low levels but very quickly fall off in power. If you can open your Throat chakra they get good again for a little while before becoming weak once more and staying there.

Bonzai

2013-01-30, 03:26 PM

Do note however it is debate able if they can bind them to any chakra
So could always be the Least kind

I remember that debate when the system came out. It's one of those "it doesn't specificly say that you can or can't" type of arguements. You share the effects of a soulmeld. If it is bound to a chakra or boosted with essentia, it is still the meld generating the effects, and should theoreticly be shared. I never saw much evidence to give credit to the base unmodified soulmeld arguement. The failiars/animal companions/mounts don't shape their own melds, they are gaining the benefit of the effects of the soulmelds that you have shaped. If some one dispells and suppresses the familiar, it has no effect. If they dispell the PC, then it effects all three. Similarly, if the meld is granting a benefit for the shaper, then the animal companion/etc... should recieve the exact same benefits.

But yes, you could technically summon 3 soulsparks with a familiar and animal companion.

Psyren

2013-01-30, 03:28 PM

I don't think soulsparks are actually classified as familiars.

But sharing souls spark familiar does work
He can get both his familiar and animal companion to meld soulsparks
Do note however it is debate able if they can bind them to any chakra
So could always be the Least kind

They don't have to - you bind your own soulmelds, which gain the bound effects. Then you share those effects to your familiar/AC, who gains the benefits even if it doesn't have the necessary chakras available.

Forcing them to stay within 5 feet of you is enough of a limitation to balance this in most cases.

Person_Man

2013-01-30, 04:16 PM

Personman, the idea is to have an animal companion and/or a Familiar and then share the soulspark meld for multiple soulsparks, not share the soulspark meld with the soulspark for infinite soulsparks..

Ah. So why not share Necrocarnum Circlet instead, getting multiple Necrocarnum Zombies?

Also, the main trick with soulsparks is even the weakest unbound version has fast healing. So you can beat them with a sap enchanted with the Vampiric weapon enhancement, and get infinite out of combat healing.

Psyren

2013-01-30, 04:26 PM

Ah. So why not share Necrocarnum Circlet instead, getting multiple Necrocarnum Zombies?

Also, the main trick with soulsparks is even the weakest unbound version has fast healing. So you can beat them with a sap enchanted with the Vampiric weapon enhancement, and get infinite out of combat healing.

And multiply it with Therapeutic Mantle, and spread it to the party via Lifebond Vestments.

GutterFace

2013-01-30, 04:31 PM

I love where this post is going :)

keep it up!

Big Fau

2013-01-30, 04:45 PM

But yes, you could technically summon 3 soulsparks with a familiar and animal companion.

Even then, the only real use is their fast healing (like Person_Man said). Combat-wise Soulsparks aren't worth the feat seeing as they have next to no HP (the Greater one has 52 HP, which lasts approximately 1 round at most) and their only attack option is so weak the enemy is better off just taking the damage every turn. Even worse is that the Soulspark can never be more than 10ft away from you.; the soulmeld unshapes if it is.

Turning them into floating HP sacks is really the only way to make them viable...

GutterFace

2013-01-30, 04:52 PM

you can direct it to attack as a free action. it has to be within 10 feet of you at the end of its turn or unshape. so i can send in all 3 as a free action to (limited)scout or attack or whatever then unshape. and me and my minions can re shape.

they fly perfect
glow like a sunrod (no torches needed)
have dr/1
and fast healing 1

thats fun right there!

Story

2013-01-30, 04:54 PM

Could they be used with Blood in the Water shenanigans?

GutterFace

2013-01-30, 04:55 PM

Also its damage is Untyped and has a rage of 5'.

and if i can jack up charisma it raises their damage

and most of all they are fun(ny)

:)

Psyren

2013-01-30, 05:16 PM

you can direct it to attack as a free action. it has to be within 10 feet of you at the end of its turn or unshape. so i can send in all 3 as a free action to (limited)scout or attack or whatever then unshape. and me and my minions can re shape.

Note that reshaping is like preparing spells, i.e. you need 8 hours of rest etc. first. You can't just unshape and reshape willy-nilly all day. There are specific class features that let you reshape a soulmeld but these are typically very limited.

8wGremlin

2013-01-30, 06:09 PM

Tricks:

Share Pain and the soulspark takes half damage then regens

or share spells: shield other, cast on you: gain +1 deflection bonus on AC and +1 vs saves, and half damage which they regen...

I did a T4 low level test with this

Incarnum Adept - T4 ECL6 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=269442)

Story

2013-01-30, 06:15 PM

You can get them more attacks with Mass Snakes Swiftness. Also works on Summon spam.

GutterFace

2013-01-30, 06:23 PM

Note that reshaping is like preparing spells, i.e. you need 8 hours of rest etc. first. You can't just unshape and reshape willy-nilly all day. There are specific class features that let you reshape a soulmeld but these are typically very limited.

yes true. i forgot all about this.

JeminiZero

2013-01-30, 07:47 PM

Could they be used with Blood in the Water shenanigans?

The sleeping raven infinite blood frenzy in the spoiler in my sig might be of interest.

Ezekiul

2013-01-30, 08:07 PM

Can you share soulmeld the soulsparks then share soulmeld dissolving spittle (iirc) and just have 6 1d6 ranged touch attacks?

Psyren

2013-01-30, 08:10 PM

Can you share soulmeld the soulsparks then share soulmeld acid spittle (iirc) and just have 6 ranged attacks?

You can share acid spittle with your familiar/AC by RAW, but not with your soulsparks unless the DM allows it.

Ezekiul

2013-01-30, 08:19 PM

You can share acid spittle with your familiar/AC by RAW, but not with your soulsparks unless the DM allows it.

You also pointed out that the share soulmeld feat specifically states "or" so you can only share with one at a time in another post i just looked up.

Psyren

2013-01-30, 09:11 PM

You also pointed out that the share soulmeld feat specifically states "or" so you can only share with one at a time in another post i just looked up.

Did I? Then I'm probably going to revise that judgment; the feat also says "at your option," meaning that you are free to repeat the sharing. In other words, you share a soulmeld with your animal companion, familiar or mount - then you choose to share it again with a different one.

The stacking rules prevent you from sharing multiple times to the same minion, but sharing to different creatures under your command should be possible.

GutterFace

2013-01-30, 09:46 PM

interesting

as they are energy (right?) are they are corporeal?

Psyren

2013-01-30, 09:53 PM

interesting

as they are energy (right?) are they are corporeal?

Yes; however, they cannot be flanked or critted. They also have damage reduction and evasion.

GutterFace

2013-01-30, 10:00 PM

very snazzy. if only thralls could have share soulmeld applied to them. comedy would ensue.

Bonzai

2013-01-30, 10:36 PM

Heh, the only real mileage I got from the feat was a totemist/beast master NPC I had. Flew around with his flock of animal companion birds, raining down 6d6+ 1/2 strength damage manticore spines at full BAB... X5, got the parties attention real quick.

GutterFace

2013-01-31, 07:53 AM

Last Question:

does this "familiar" follow the normal rules of familiar advancement, ie like a Wizards familiar based on your class level?

Psyren

2013-01-31, 10:05 AM

Last Question:

does this "familiar" follow the normal rules of familiar advancement, ie like a Wizards familiar based on your class level?

No; there are very specific tiers of advancement for a Soulspark Familiar (Least, Lesser, Standard and Greater.) Which one you get depends on which chakra you bind the Soulspark Familiar soulmeld to, and the only other way to give it any additional power is by investing more essentia into it. But even doing that won't increase its HD any further past 8.