Overly ambitious storylines

[Magic Myrmidon]

I'm sure plenty of people have had some moments of great inspiration for a REALLY cool storyline to run as a GM. But unfortunately, you know that either you don't have the skill to pull it off or that the players simply won't be the right people to have it happen or that it's not their kind of thing.

That got a bit unclear, but I hope it's clear enough. Basically, have you had any super cool ideas that you know are really unlikely to be pulled off how you want it? I have one, but I'd rather let people share theirs first.

[valadil]

I've had one plot kicking around for about 5 years now. I really want to do a Mage game focused on the technocracy and inspired by Cryptonomicon. I'd like to give the technocrats some sort of magic tech that lets them blow away some basic assumptions of cryptography. I think a game focused around steganography and hacker espionage could be a good time and I've even got a story to go with it.

The problem is players. I wouldn't throw this game at just anyone. There has to be some background interest in hacking. But I also don't want players so well versed in cryptography that they run circles around me - that wouldn't be satisfying for anyone. I also don't want to give out coding homework. So I'm stuck on finding the group with the exact right level of technical know how and figuring out the right abstraction to simulate what I want without coding. I think the latter problem is solvable, but I'm not sure it's worthwhile without the right group.

[AntiTrust]

I always liked the idea of a sort of tournament quest where the players are, but one group of many all attempting to collect the same set of macguffins. The issue is that its hard to tell if the group would seek out the items from their locations or simply stalk and kill another group whose already collected one. This means I'd have to stat out multiple npc groups and continue to level them as the players group levels to provide a challenge in addition to devising the items their unique locations, traps, monsters etc. and of course figure out why the heck these macguffins are so important.

[ArcturusV]

I think about 90% of the plots I come up with fit into this category. Sometimes it's just because I forget to account for Player Logic.

You know, the sort of logic that says even if you have a permit to enter a city, have legitimate business there you can prove, were invited in, and the guards were asking to see your papers with no threatening actions what so ever.... inspires them to think they have to concoct some elaborate cover story for a plan that may or may not involve (usually may) setting the city on fire so they can get into it.

I guess the most recent one was a hint I dropped early on, along with a relevant artifact, clues, etc, going into the backstory of the setting and having potentially world changing effects if the players followed up on, questioning the very nature of reality as they know it and revealing the truth behind a great many secrets to the setting along the way.

They took one look at the artifact. Shrugged, and put it in a pocket never to think about again. They ignored all plot hooks, and walked past every hint of a plot oblivious to it.

10 sessions later someone asks me "What was up with that weird Eye item we found?"

-_-

Note that it was also a group that constantly complained about having no unifying story or plot to drive them on.

This was not the first potential plot they fully ignored. Including two that were so blatantly obvious they didn't "ignore" so much as "run away" from it.

[kardar233]

I had an idea for a campaign set in the Elder Scrolls universe, based on the stranger and more esoteric parts of the lore. The plot would have started with a time dilation-based mind screw, and would have gallivanted through the deeper secrets of Nirn, into the weirder bits of the Wheel's metaphysics and would have ended with a frantic race to unify with the Godhead.

Unfortunately, I can't possibly think of a group that would actually go along with it, as messed up and mind screwy as the plot was going to be, and I definitely am not a good enough DM to run the thing.

[Jay R]

Here is the start of the ultimate example of the overly ambitious storyline (http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=612). The start of a comic strip as funny as OotS.

[DigoDragon]

Pretty much anything inspored by the Jason Bourne series.
My players simply don't have the patience to play stealthy, investigative secret agents.

[Gizladlo]

I have always wanted to TPKO a group with their future selves.

They would fight both sides of the battle: first, they would lose, and second, they would win. I would record their actions in the first fight, have them go talk to a sage who then informs them they must stop themselves from completing their mission, then have them go back and fight their past selves, winning in the process.

I haven't done it yet because I'm not sure I can pull it off.


I think about 90% of the plots I come up with fit into this category. Sometimes it's just because I forget to account for Player Logic.

You know, the sort of logic that says even if you have a permit to enter a city, have legitimate business there you can prove, were invited in, and the guards were asking to see your papers with no threatening actions what so ever.... inspires them to think they have to concoct some elaborate cover story for a plan that may or may not involve (usually may) setting the city on fire so they can get into it.

A million times: this!

[The Dark Fiddler]

I've had an overly ambitious storyline come up once, but it was the players that wanted it, rather than me.

Basically, the home state of one of the characters had come under divine influence while they were in exile, and had begun to conquer the rest of the continent. Their goal was to stop this. I had thought they'd want to go about it by taking out the corruption at the head of the state, but instead they wanted to rally the other forces together to provide a better resistance.

I'm sure it would have been awesome, but I certainly wouldn't have been able to pull it off, and I told them as much. They were a bit disappointed, but I do think it was for the best.

[Yora]

I think for a new group, the only sensible thing is to do some losely interconnected one-shots with the same PCs within the same general area. If the group really works out well and you can be quite certain that you can keep a frequently playing game running for one or two years, then you can start thinking about big storylines. By that time you also have an idea how the people are playing and what things would be interesting to them.

[mjlush]

That got a bit unclear, but I hope it's clear enough. Basically, have you had any super cool ideas that you know are really unlikely to be pulled off how you want it? I have one, but I'd rather let people share theirs first.


Players get a prophecy of the Defeat of Evil, but its dead, all the prophesied events have passed and gone wrong... the lost Boy King died in a farming accident 20 years ago, the Sword of Sanoor has been broken up and used to make teaspoons, the midnight noon happened last month.

However there is still hope... prophecy is pretty vague, what if Midnight Noon referred to a place or a person rather than a time. They could reinterpret the verses and make them come true and if the prophecy is true perhaps that's what it meant all along!

The catch is that I as GM have no idea how the players are going to do it. I just come up with a few lines of doggerel, let the players know this and let them loose on it. I then write the adventures based on what they come up with.

The reason I can't play it? It needs a really devious and creative group of players and a setting with enough detail that they have enough raw material to work with...

For me StarWars is the strongest candidate wookeypedia (http://http://starwars.wikia.com/) provides a wealth of detail freely accessible to all players and searchable to boot.

Actually I have hopes... I have a few players who may be up to the job :-)

[Yora]

My favorite pophecy story: http://nedroid.com/2012/10/prophecy/

[Scow2]

Having the players rebuild and run the City Guard, inspired by Discworld's Sam Vimes seriously.

Horrifically undergeared for their level, they must establish their presence in a city suffering from extreme urban blight. Early levels would focus on building a base of operations and quelling crime in the immediate vicinity, while putting up with low-level adventurer antics. Higher levels would have them bringing the entire city under control, and dealing with troubles they would have had to pass over or ignore when they were weaker - such as larger Adventuring Party antics, city threats, organized crime, and even their own government (Similar to Discworld's "Nightwatch").

The whole time, they'd be fettered by reliance on public opinion and the rightness of their cause, unable to take easy/direct routes that would make them no better than the gangs and mobs that already rule the city.

[AcerbicOrb]

I once had a plan to do a R2D (Roll 2 Dodge) involving a party of heroes helping retake a country from an orcish menace, leading platoons to battle huge hordes, defending castles from heavy siege weapons, fighting for days over villages.

Then I tried to roll every character's accuracy, damage, initiative, movement, etc. rolls.

Yeah...

[Synovia]

I think about 90% of the plots I come up with fit into this category. Sometimes it's just because I forget to account for Player Logic.

You know, the sort of logic that says even if you have a permit to enter a city, have legitimate business there you can prove, were invited in, and the guards were asking to see your papers with no threatening actions what so ever.... inspires them to think they have to concoct some elaborate cover story for a plan that may or may not involve (usually may) setting the city on fire so they can get into it.

I guess the most recent one was a hint I dropped early on, along with a relevant artifact, clues, etc, going into the backstory of the setting and having potentially world changing effects if the players followed up on, questioning the very nature of reality as they know it and revealing the truth behind a great many secrets to the setting along the way.

They took one look at the artifact. Shrugged, and put it in a pocket never to think about again. They ignored all plot hooks, and walked past every hint of a plot oblivious to it.

10 sessions later someone asks me "What was up with that weird Eye item we found?"

-_-

Note that it was also a group that constantly complained about having no unifying story or plot to drive them on.

This was not the first potential plot they fully ignored. Including two that were so blatantly obvious they didn't "ignore" so much as "run away" from it.

No offense, but you sound like my wife here.

Sometimes hints that are obvious to you just don't make any sense to anyone else. Sometimes you shouldn't make the assumption that because your players haven't figured something out, that their characters wouldn't have.

If you've set up a series of hints that lead to something, Joe the Plumber may not get it, but his 28 INT wizard most certainly would.

[Dr Bwaa]

Oh, sure. I've tried to scale it back recently, and I mean alllll the way back. Most games I run are pretty heavily sandboxed now, though I don't discount the possibility of far-reaching consequences. My first campaign, though...

The PCs were supposed to learn about the history of the ancient world as the campaign progressed against the real BBEG. Basically a dude ascended to godhood without technically gaining divine ranks, and then waged a 1-man war against all deities (arcane magic is the only pure thing, blah blah), and actually killed most of them, including all but one of the Good-aligned gods. Most people do not know this. The PCs figure all this out and then when they finish a particularly hilarious dungeon a friend and I designed, they would be sucked through an reclusive Alienist's life's work: a portal to all kinds of silly planes (Real World, Spelljammer, Star Wars, etc). I'd pick a plane "randomly" and send them there.

Eventually they'd figure out that they're actually on their own plane, thousands of years ago (conveniently at the same time as the aforementioned major historical events). Or possibly, knowing them, they wouldn't figure it out--that's fine. All that mattered was, I would then figure out a way to have them become responsible for the terrible events of this period of time. This would be generally easy, because to get back to their own plane/time, they need to enlist the help of the most powerful wizard in the land; you get the point.

Obviously we never got this far :smallsigh: the campaign broke down when we graduated college and went our separate ways, halfway through the awesome dungeon that led to the past.

[mjlush]

Oh, sure. I've tried to scale it back recently, and I mean alllll the way back. Most games I run are pretty heavily sandboxed now, though I don't discount the possibility of far-reaching consequences. My first campaign, though...

<epic campaign deleted>

Obviously we never got this far :smallsigh: the campaign broke down when we graduated college and went our separate ways, halfway through the awesome dungeon that led to the past.

I've been experimenting with Schrodinger plotting, basically I scatter breadcrumbs in all directions, all of them ultimately point in the general direction of the plotline. So long as they investigate something, the story will happen, how the story happens is really up to them.

Once there on their way I can juggle the importance of the missed/forgotten/misinterpreted crumbs ... The Dread Eye of Yana they pocketed, but never researched in session 2 could become a mere gem of trueseeing or perhaps a tracking bug planted by The Enemy (If I need to explain where all the Demon Ninja are coming from :-). The nice thing is that I can use lots fiendish and/or subtle and/or obvious clues and have a reasonable expectation that at least one of them will get picked up

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/wood_chips.png

[ArcturusV]

Yeah. I had to go to that tactic, spreading out plot seeds everywhere. Eventually the only plot the players latched onto was the one they all complained about not being interested in. Basically being strongarm thugs for some "Legitimate" businessmen.

But things like... NPC tells you that no one has had contact with Town X for a while. They give you a reason to go to Town X. Shortly after landing at Town X you run into a zombie that you beat down (But was tough enough to be worrisome).

Instead of investigating, looking for survivors, etc, they decided to run away. Not like I was being too masterful or vague. Just a really obvious plot... that they ran away from. And two sessions later were saying they wished they had gone for (But not wished strong enough to actually go back there).

[prufock]

I sometimes think ALL of my campaign plots are too ambitious. Sometimes they work out fine, other times... not so much. Currently, I'm running a Star Wars Saga campaign that occurs simultaneously with episodes IV-VI. Episode IV is in the books, and the players have been involved with the destruction of the Death Star. Now they are tangled up between the Hutts and the Zann Consortium and... well it's just going to get worse from there.

In my D&D game, a huge magical catastrophe has caused rifts between the Material plane and all 26 of the other planes to open. The party is one group tasked with finding and closing these rifts. They've managed to secure a few, and are currently level 6. It's intended to go to epic levels eventually (we're doing it in stages). There are two other organizations working against closing the rifts, and a big villain reveal yet to come. The campaign is probably going to take place over a span of actual years. I may have bitten off more than I can chew with this thing.

[Synovia]

Instead of investigating, looking for survivors, etc, they decided to run away. Not like I was being too masterful or vague. Just a really obvious plot... that they ran away from. And two sessions later were saying they wished they had gone for (But not wished strong enough to actually go back there).

Thats not an obvious plot. They killed the zombie that killed the villagers. Plot arc resolved.

D&D games have enough random monsters scattered around in places they don't really belong that "how did the zombie get there" or "why is the zombie here" isn't really an obvious question. Sometimes its just there for you to kill it.

[mistformsquirrl]

Having the players rebuild and run the City Guard, inspired by Discworld's Sam Vimes seriously.

Horrifically undergeared for their level, they must establish their presence in a city suffering from extreme urban blight. Early levels would focus on building a base of operations and quelling crime in the immediate vicinity, while putting up with low-level adventurer antics. Higher levels would have them bringing the entire city under control, and dealing with troubles they would have had to pass over or ignore when they were weaker - such as larger Adventuring Party antics, city threats, organized crime, and even their own government (Similar to Discworld's "Nightwatch").

The whole time, they'd be fettered by reliance on public opinion and the rightness of their cause, unable to take easy/direct routes that would make them no better than the gangs and mobs that already rule the city.

That would be fantastic. Of course I loved Night Watch so it makes sense I'd like such an idea.

[mistformsquirrl]

As for me, I have numerous ideas for long, sprawling campaigns across two different worlds...

But my main enemy is me. Innevitably no matter how well things are going I start to get bored, and when I get bored the campaign starts to fail.

The other issue is the players - I don't like railroading, but simultaneously if there's to be any coherent plot at all there have to be some tracks somewhere... the problem is players may absolutely ignore the tracks (intentionally or not); and it never sits right with me forcibly putting them on them myself. So instead of a grand plot about a dragon scheming to take over the continent from underneath a mountain, we get 3 sessions of random encounters as the players wander aimlessly...

Note that those are both primarily DM issues, not player issues; the DM has to be the one to resolve these kinds of things, I'm just... bad at it lol; though I do try.

[Khedrac]

One idea I have been mentally tossing around for a few years now is this:

The world has some sort of traditional fantasy doom scenario coming down upon it and the movers and shakers are searching for prophecies that can tell them how to circumvent the dark.
The party is a bunch of fairly experienced and competent adventurers who get summoned to an isolated castle by some of the leaders of the land. On arrival they are escorted into a room overlooking the courtyard and while they wait for their hosts they can see some abysmally incompetent "adventurers" practicing in the courtyard (the sort where this is the first time the fighter has held a sword). Then in comes their hosts who explain that the prophecies have been sorted and the path to survival has been found and their one hope identified - and it's the group in the courtyard. Their mission is to go ahead of that group and deal with all the tough monsters that would destroy them in seconds - just leaving incompetent opponents for the "heroes" to fight - all without the "heroes" discovering them...

I think it could make for an interesting campaign - having to hide evidence of their presence, trail the "heroes" form in front, guide them when they get lost etc. All without being able to stop when they want (well not necessarily - what would happen if the "heroes" overtook them and reached an uncleared area?)

[tbok1992]

My idea for an overly-ambitious campaign idea is that the entire D&D multiverse has been condensed into one giant dungeon, and one mysterious being is trying to destroy it all. It'd basically be the D&D equivalent of "Whatever Happened To The Man Of Tomorrow", where the players go through the dungeon trying to shape the future of the multiverse.

The Big bad would turn out to be the angry shade of Gary Gygax, unable to accept his own mortality and trying to drag the Multiverse down into the void with him. With the Multiverse in shambles after the players defeat him, they'd talk to the Spirit of the Multiverse, embodied as the DM himself, and ask the palyers to make one wish each to reshape the multiverse to their liking.

But, I think the story'd be too big and meta to pull off, especially for a DM of my skill level.

[mjlush]

One idea I have been mentally tossing around for a few years now is this:

Then in comes their hosts who explain that the prophecies have been sorted and the path to survival has been found and their one hope identified - and it's the group in the courtyard. Their mission is to go ahead of that group and deal with all the tough monsters that would destroy them in seconds - just leaving incompetent opponents for the "heroes" to fight - all without the "heroes" discovering them...



I really do like this notion .. I've run something ever so slightly similar, the players are all NPC's trying to keep the PC's on track, on plot and stop them talking to anyone with less than one sentence of background info. (The main plot is about dealing with the 'Munchkins' that gatecrash an otherwise well run game)

[tbok1992]

I really do like this notion .. I've run something ever so slightly similar, the players are all NPC's trying to keep the PC's on track, on plot and stop them talking to anyone with less than one sentence of background info. (The main plot is about dealing with the 'Munchkins' that gatecrash an otherwise well run game)

Interesting... Could you give us a few more details?

[Kaveman26]

At one point I wanted to make an adventure where the PC's had full and complete knowledge of every room's inhabitants, contents, motivations and purposes. The caveat...they could not make an agressive action against any creature or person in the adventure. they would have to manipulate via known information and not just skill check rolls the creatures and persons. Or they could just steal everything not nailed down. Was a bit too high concept for real execution, but I ran a solo one off for an interested friend and he had a blast on small scale basis.

[Jack of Spades]

Re: Multiple paths to the same plot. Never forget that the players don't know the layout of the dungeon until they've walked through it. If the plot needs them to see the dungeons first, then all three paths in the fork lead to the dungeon. If they need the Eye of Gruumsh, then the Eye will find its way into whatever treasure they *do* decide to pick up (possibly One Ring style) when they don't think to make perception rolls in the room where you so cleverly put the puzzle that would have led them to it. (However, since we're talking about PC's here they'll probably decide to burrow a new path from the fork and burn any and all treasure found in the dungeon, but I'm sure you'll manage. You're clever.)

As for my storylines... How about all of them?

-Wanted to start a Deadlands game with a prologue where the players are troops in the Battle of Gettysburg (which makes sense to those of you who know the lore).
-Wanted to start a fantasy game with an assassination and/or political intrigue session at the final negotiations for the treaty between the Big Bad Legions of Doom and the Alliance of Goody Goodness. (I think up a lot of prologues)
-Half-developed a DnD sandbox world that was driven by the projection of gods' emotions, squabbles, and goals onto (at least the ruling class of) their chosen races. Also, the gods mostly lived underground at the endpoints/intersections of a broken network of suspiciously-pristine white marble roads. I thought up at least 3 or 4 plots that could take place depending on where in the world the PC's started, most of which didn't even involve knowing about or going to the areas of the other plots.
-There's a big ol' homebrew world that I think and/or write about occasionally but would never think to use because it's a bit too weird for any system I've found.

[Barmoz]

Mine was a war between Dark Sun and the Forgotten Realms. Dregoth (an Athasian sorcerer king known to have traveled the planes) figures out how to make gates to the realms. Caravans transporting metal goods start disappearing, the PC's end up getting sent to athas to investigate where they discover a massive military buildup happening. They work some serious espionage and have to escape and warn the powers that be in the realms of what's to come.

The SK's actually put aside their rivalries to conquer a new pristine (by comparison) world. Eventually there's a war, inspired by Feist's Magician Apprentice type invasion. It might seem like the realms should curbstomp the athasians, but I was able to justify it being competitive. There are a lot more epic NPC's in the realms, but they're (in my campaign) far less powerful than the SK's (I also have almost all the SK's still living). Additionally, the armies of athas are poorly equipped and far less numerous, but even the commoners start at level 3 or 4 with higher ability scores and they all possess psionic wild talents. Not to mention, the SK's, having conducted this kind of war before on Athas were more experienced compared to a realms who was barely able to unify to defeat the Tugian (sp?) invasion.

It was a great and epic story in my head, but making it happen on the table was far beyond my ability.