Making a "Team Rocket" encounter for my game, need advice.

[Deca4531]

I have always liked the idea of a signature villain. my party is set to meet a duo of cleric and wizard soon and im still not sure if im making it too hard or not.

the party is 5 strong and all lv 3. i was planning on making the bad guys lv 7. i figure once that reach 1/2 or 1/4 hit points they will teleport away.

I dont know how to figure the CR of a PC so im not sure if im making this too hard. im also not sure how to best progress these characters to keep them a challenge for the party.

any recommendations would be greatly appreciated

[Edge of Dreams]

The CR of a PC is roughly equal to its level - higher for optimized or powerful classes (like wizard and cleric), lower for unoptimized, lacking gear, or weak classes. So, you're talking about throwing a CR 9 encounter at your level 3 party. Bad plan. Your party has, what, 20-ish hitpoints each? That wizard can throw a fireball, hitting most or all of them for 7d6, average 24 points of damage. That's the first spell of the encounter, and bam, half the party is dead. That's not even accounting for what the wizard and cleric can do to them with spells like Glitterdust and other such save-or-suck stuff.

[javijuji]

Not to mention the wizard can cast celerity and go first.

[only1doug]

A L5 duo would be a more appropriate hard challange for your party.

[Chilingsworth]

A L5 duo would be a more appropriate hard challange for your party.

Yeah, though if you're going for a "Team Rocket" flavor, I'm surprised you want them to actually be that compentent. :smallconfused:

[Fouredged Sword]

Two creatures with no CR adjustment and class levels are Class level+1. Cleric and wizard are both tier one, so it could easily be CR+2 or 3 depending on their spell selection. Summons are not accounted for in CR and a summon focused wizard + a summon focused cleric could easily crush a party.

Now a hard fight for a party is CR+2. The fight you have planed is CR+5 or 6. This is listed as an impossible fight in the DMG exp per encounter table.

Level 5 is the max you should consider making them, and then make sure that you don't give them spells or abilities that would take your party out all at once. I would recommend 4 unless the party is allowed to dictate the combat (ie choose to start the fight and have a chance to pre buff).

[Deca4531]

Yeah i can see lv 7 being a bit much. they have maxed HD so that can take a bit more of a beating. my plan was more to use the cleric as a melee fighter, using divine power spell. the wizard would more be a buff and debuff character. keep everyone's attention on the big guy with the sword while the wizard throws Fear and Grease around. maybe dazes a PC or covers the area in fog.

i guess i could make the cleric a fighter. really they would only be taking damage from him, not the wizard. and i dont imagine it would take 5 PCs long to burn through 50-70 HP. i just think they could take out a 5th lv pretty quickly.

[Starbuck_II]

I have always liked the idea of a signature villain. my party is set to meet a duo of cleric and wizard soon and im still not sure if im making it too hard or not.

the party is 5 strong and all lv 3. i was planning on making the bad guys lv 7. i figure once that reach 1/2 or 1/4 hit points they will teleport away.

I dont know how to figure the CR of a PC so im not sure if im making this too hard. im also not sure how to best progress these characters to keep them a challenge for the party.

any recommendations would be greatly appreciated

If you want them to "teleport away", Dimension door works and is lower level (like the party is really going to searching 400 ft+X/lv for them)
So level 7 Wizard and Level 7 Cleric is only CR +1.

Now if you give them less/no gear that lowers CR by 1.

If you take away most of there 3rd/4th spell slots (leaving 1 4th for Dimension door to escape of course) that also takes away 1 CR.

The most balanced method Level 5 Wizard/Cleric Summoning (to really be Team rocket) duo just give them a scroll of Teleport/Dimension door.

Don't forget their Displacer Beast ally, "Meowth that's right"

[Deca4531]

If you want them to "teleport away", Dimension door works and is lower level (like the party is really going to searching 400 ft+X/lv for them)
So level 7 Wizard and Level 7 Cleric is only CR +1.

Now if you give them less/no gear that lowers CR by 1.

If you take away most of there 3rd/4th spell slots (leaving 1 4th for Dimension door to escape of course) that also takes away 1 CR.

The most balanced method Level 5 Wizard/Cleric Summoning (to really be Team rocket) duo just give them a scroll of Teleport/Dimension door.

Don't forget their Displacer Beast ally, "Meowth that's right"

LOL i never considered making them to emulate team rocket but that would be really funny to do.

i dont plan to give them awesome gear or magic items (other then a +1 or +2 weapon for the melee guy)

i know these classes are tier 1 but i dont plan to build them like tier 1. hell i could make one lv 7 druid that would probably kill the who party without trying. they are just meant to be a reoccurring boss. hard but not impossible. i'm not about to start throwing maximized fireballs around lol

[Chilingsworth]

I somehow doubt that Jessie and James have the mental stats to be effective clerics or wizards.

[Gavinfoxx]

What about some of the other Team Rocket teams, like you see in the games? Those are more competent, right?

[Deca4531]

i never said i was trying to make a Jess and James type NPCs. i used team rocket as an example. i wanna make a duo that can show up over and over to serve as a last boss.

i think i'll go with a Fighter and Wizard combo. i dont think a 7th lv fighter would bee too hard for 5 PCs, and a 7th lv Wiz would only have 1 4th lv spell. if i dont use attack spells i think it wouldnt be an impossible fight, only confusing and chaotic.