Looking for a specific weapon or feat for TWF.

[Elric VIII]

I currently have a character that plans to use a two-handed weapon and unarmed strikes in TWF with Power Attack as my bonus damage.

What I am looking for is something that can replace the unarmed strike while still being usable alongside a two-handed weapon and eligible for Power attack.

So what I need is either a feat that allows something like Armor Spikes to be used with Power Attack or a one-handed weapon that may be wielded alongside a two-handed weapon (in this case I will use Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting).

Can anyone help with this?

[andromax]

I was under the impression that for typical races, THF and TWF were mutually exclusive.

[thethird]

A Valenar double scimitar and 5 levels of revenant blade?

[Bearlock]

I am also somewhat confused. You have a character that uses a two handed weapon and unarmed strike, but you want to replace unarmed strike with something else?

How many arms do you have? Unless you are already using monkey grip or something to one hand a greatsword (or other two hander), I think that by RAW you can PA with unarmed strikes, same as natural weapons, but you can't do that unless you hold a two hander one handed or have more than two arms

EDIT: ooor, random thought, get bigger armor spikes that don't count as light weapons and PA with them?

[Greenish]

Dragonblood subtype (RotD) -> Dragon Tail (RotD) -> Prehensile Tail (SS).

Or

Willing Deformity (HH) -> Deformity: Teeth (HH) -> Mouthpick weapon (LoM)


Those should work. Alternatively, getting more hands also works. Obah-blessed template from Dungeon Magazine 136 gets you some, as does playing Thri-kreen (Shining South for non-psionic at reduced LA) or Diopsid (Dragon Compendium). The latter is designed for THW TWH in mind.


[Edit]: And to clear up:

I was under the impression that for typical races, THF and TWF were mutually exclusive.Nope. Nothing prevents you from TWFing with a two-hander and, say, armour spikes or unarmed strike.

How many arms do you have?Unarmed Strike, even for non-monks, can explicitly be done with "punches, kicks, and head butts"

Unless you are already using monkey grip or something to one hand a greatsword (or other two hander)Monkey Grip doesn't let you use a two-hander one-handed.

I think that by RAW you can PA with unarmed strikes, same as natural weapons, but you can't do that unless you hold a two hander one handed or have more than two armsNo such rule.

[Bearlock]

Hence why i said, Monkey Grip or something.

Okay, so he can still TWF with a TH weapon and unarmed strike by RAW. Alright. Also by RAW, one CAN power attack with unarmed strikes.

So, unless his plan is to use only kicks and headbutts or whatever as unarmed strikes, which could be possible, he would need more hands or be holding a TH weapon one handed.

[Greenish]

Hence why i said, Monkey Grip or something.There is no "or something", to the best of my knowledge. At least in first party stuff.


Okay, so he can still TWF with a TH weapon and unarmed strike by RAW. Alright. Also by RAW, one CAN power attack with unarmed strikes.Yeah. I don't know why he doesn't want to, either.

[Keld Denar]

Dragonsplits in one of the later MMs. Either IV or V. It's a pair of exotic 1handers that count as light WRT duel wielding penalties. It only specifies the penalties, so it should be acceptable to get 1:1 PA with both of them.

[Bearlock]

There is no "or something", to the best of my knowledge. At least in first party stuff.

Link (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Monkey_Grip_%283.5e_Feat%29). Also in CW pg. 103

Monkey Grip [General, Fighter]
This feat allows you to wield a weapon one size larger than normal in one hand.
Prerequisite: Str 13, +1 Base Attack Bonus.
Benefit: This feat grants the ability to wield melee weapons that are one size too large for your race, as if they were one size smaller, at a –2 penalty to hit. (This includes using two-handed weapons as single-handed weapons, as two-handed weapons are considered a size category larger.)
Special: A Fighter may select this as a bonus feat.

Also check out Strongarm Bracers, MIC pg. 139

Technically a greatsword is a Large sized longsword (SRD Weapons page (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm)) and can be wielded in one hand by a medium creature with a -2 penalty on attacks

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Unless you're spamming/persisting Wraithstrike or similar, you'll never hit anything with both Power Attack and TWF.

Spend some feats on Aberration Blood, Inhuman Reach, and Deepspawn, all from Lords of Madness. Aberration Blood could grant one of several bonuses. Inhuman Reach gives you +5 ft. reach for a permanent -1 to hit in melee. Deepspawn gives you two tentacles that can be used to make secondary natural attacks, so no TWF penalties but you may want Multiattack. There are a few more useful aberrant feats besides those, one actually gives you wings.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Link (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Monkey_Grip_%283.5e_Feat%29). Also in CW pg. 103

...

Just to prove to you that the D&D Wikis (all three of them) are horrible, horrible sources:

Monkey Grip [General]
You are able to use a larger weapon than other people your size.
Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: You can use melee weapons one size category larger than you are with a -2 penalty on the attack roll, but the amount of effort it takes for you to use the weapon does not change. For instance, a Large longsword (a one-handed weapon for a Large creature) is considered a two-handed weapon for a Medium creature that does not have this feat. For a Medium creature that has this feat, it is considered a one-handed weapon. You can wield a larger light weapon as a light weapon, or a larger two-handed weapon in two hands. You cannot wield a larger weapon in your off-hand, and you cannot use this feat with a double weapon.
Normal: You can use a melee weapon one size category larger than you with a -2 penalty on the attack roll, and the amount of effort it takes to use the weapon increases. A larger light weapon is considered a one-handed weapon, a larger one-handed weapon is considered a two-handed weapon, and you cannot use a larger two-handed weapon at all.

Very different text, does not say that you can use a two-handed of your size category weapon one-handed.

And Greenish knows about Strongarm Bracers. He's saying you don't need a way of wielding a two-hander one-handed. Because you don't.


Technically a greatsword is a Large sized longsword (SRD Weapons page) and can be wielded in one hand by a medium creature with a -2 penalty on attacks

I...I...

*facepalm*

1. A Large longsword deals the same damage. That does not make it the same weapon.
2. A Large longsword cannot be wielded one-handed by a Medium creature at a -2 penalty. If greatswords were Large longswords, and vice versa, they couldn't be wielded one-handed by Medium creatures at all, and they would take a -2 penalty to wield them two-handed.

[andromax]

Monkey Grip doesn't let you use a two-hander one-handed.

Actually.... it does, but in a round about way. So do strong-arm bracers.



Inappropriately Sized Weapons
A creature can’t make optimum use of a weapon that isn’t properly sized for it. A cumulative -2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn’t proficient with the weapon a -4 nonproficiency penalty also applies.
The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder’s size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. If a weapon’s designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can’t wield the weapon at all.


Since a creature with powerful build/monkey grip/strong-arm bracers can wield a weapon a size catagory larger than normal, they may also wield a weapon of the same size catagory as 1 catagory lower, like a large creature would, this however results in a -2 penalty. We don't make the penalty stack with monkey grip since it already applies it, but due to the wording you could.

Moreover, A creature wielding a medium great sword can use his monkeygrip/powerful build/strongarm bracers to treat the medium greatsword as a step lower (from two-handed to 1 handed) just as a large creature would, and at a -2 penalty.



2. A Large longsword cannot be wielded one-handed by a Medium creature at a -2 penalty. If greatswords were Large longswords, and vice versa, they couldn't be wielded one-handed by Medium creatures at all, and they would take a -2 penalty to wield them two-handed.

This is because the large long sword is treated as a two-handed weapon, and a -2 penalty applies to a medium creatures. They can wield it 1 handed however if they have an ability that allows them to wield a weapon a size catagory larger than normal, infact in the case of strong-arm bracers the penalty doesn't apply.

[Elric VIII]

It's mostly a style thing. I'd prefer to wield two weapons because I like the image better than wielding a sword and kicking my opponent.


Dragonsplits in one of the later MMs. Either IV or V. It's a pair of exotic 1handers that count as light WRT duel wielding penalties. It only specifies the penalties, so it should be acceptable to get 1:1 PA with both of them.

That sounds interesting, I will look into this. Thanks.


Unless you're spamming/persisting Wraithstrike or similar, you'll never hit anything with both Power Attack and TWF.

Spend some feats on Aberration Blood, Inhuman Reach, and Deepspawn, all from Lords of Madness. Aberration Blood could grant one of several bonuses. Inhuman Reach gives you +5 ft. reach for a permanent -1 to hit in melee. Deepspawn gives you two tentacles that can be used to make secondary natural attacks, so no TWF penalties but you may want Multiattack. There are a few more useful aberrant feats besides those, one actually gives you wings.

I'll be using Shock Trooper, along with various ToB stuff (Step of the Wind, Sudden Leap, and Bounding Assault) to facilitate my charging. I apreciate the suggestion, though.




Also, with regards to Monkey Grip, I could just use Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting and avoid that issues with that feat entirely, but that precludes my use of a two-handed weapon.


Thank you for the help guys.

[Bearlock]

1. A Large longsword deals the same damage. That does not make it the same weapon.

I am apparently looking at it as a mechanical concept. A Medium greatsword deals 2d6. A Large longsword deals 2d6. Perhaps when I said "technically" I should have said "mechanically". Sorry if that is the point of confusion.

Greenish had said that to the best of his knowledge there was no way to wield a TH weapon one handed. My response was not intended to offend anybody, I was just pretty sure I had read something somewhere that made it possible, and was sharing the info.

Regardless I think the conclusion I'm drawing is that there are two facts, one being that you cannot wield a Medium greatsword (or two handed weapon) in one hand, and two, you CAN wield a Large longsword in one hand and mechanically deal the same damage with the use of Monkey Grip or Strongarm bracers.

[andromax]

Regardless I think the conclusion I'm drawing is that there are two facts, one being that you cannot wield a Medium greatsword (or two handed weapon) in one hand.
Yes you can, see my above post.

[Greenish]

Also check out Strongarm Bracers, MIC pg. 139
And Greenish knows about Strongarm Bracers. He's saying you don't need a way of wielding a two-hander one-handed. Because you don't.No, yeah, I was aware of Strongarm Bracers, but forget they had quite a different wording than Monkey Grip, and that they do actually allow using a (medium) greatsword one-handed as a medium creature.


Since a creature with powerful build/monkey grip/strong-arm bracers can wield a weapon a size catagory larger than normal, they may also wield a weapon of the same size catagory as 1 catagory lowerAh, but Monkey Grip specifies: "the amount of effort it takes for you to use the weapon does not change". You could wield a large longsword one-handed, but not a medium greatsword. You'll notice Monkey Grip doesn't actually say you're wielding it as one size-category larger creature.

Same actually applies to Powerful Build, which only says that you "can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty" which if read literally would still result in the increase in the effort to wield the weapon (unless you consider said increase a penalty).

That sounds interesting, I will look into this. Thanks.They combine very nicely with Exotic Weapon Master's Uncanny Blow, as outlined here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194720).

Also, with regards to Monkey Grip, I could just use Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting and avoid that issues with that feat entirely, but that precludes my use of a two-handed weapon.
As has been pointed out to me, Strongarm Bracers would work. They're certainly more affordable than a feat.


I am apparently looking at it as a mechanical concept. A Medium greatsword deals 2d6. A Large longsword deals 2d6. Perhaps when I said "technically" I should have said "mechanically". Sorry if that is the point of confusion.Mechanically, they're separate entities. This mainly comes to play when getting loot (killing a large creature using a longsword does not net you a medium greatsword, and without the bracers you'd take the penalty for wielding it two-handed.


Greenish had said that to the best of his knowledge there was no way to wield a TH weapon one handed. My response was not intended to offend anybody, I was just pretty sure I had read something somewhere that made it possible, and was sharing the info.You were correct.


Regardless I think the conclusion I'm drawing is that there are two facts, one being that you cannot wield a Medium greatsword (or two handed weapon) in one hand, and two, you CAN wield a Large longsword in one hand and mechanically deal the same damage with the use of Monkey Grip or Strongarm bracers.No, the bracers do actually allow you to swing a medium greatsword one-handed.

[animewatcha]

What about sticking with valenar double scimitar, except you go barb1 / fighter 4 ( bonus feat to help for qualify since can't use Revenant blade to qualify ) and bab requirements, / revenant blade 5 / Dervish X.

While you dance with slashing weapon ( valenar double scimitar ), you can a bonus to attack and damage rolls for every odd level of Dervish.

Gotta be valenar elf, though IIRC.

[andromax]

Ah, but Monkey Grip specifies: "the amount of effort it takes for you to use the weapon does not change". You could wield a large longsword one-handed, but not a medium greatsword. You'll notice Monkey Grip doesn't actually say you're wielding it as one size-category larger creature.

Fair enough.. as long as we agree that it works with strong arm bracers - which is by far the optimal choice anyways. :smallwink:

[Hiro Protagonest]

Fair enough.. as long as we agree that it works with strong arm bracers - which is by far the optimal choice anyways. :smallwink:

Strongarm Bracers means you can wield a Medium greatsword as a Large creature would. At a -2 penalty.

[andromax]

Strongarm Bracers means you can wield a Medium greatsword as a Large creature would. At a -2 penalty.

And guess what, a medium greatsword is a one-handed weapon to a large creature.

Ta-da!