In a Faerun Game: Shadowcraft Mage or Easy Bake God [3.5]

[Tokuhara]

I'm entering into a Faerun Game with a final party total of 8 + the DM. Having spent some time with number-crunching, I have come to a coin-flip option here.

Build A: Tinker Gnome Beguiler/Shadowcrafter/Shadowcraft Mage

Build B: Grey Elf Eidetic Domain Spontaneous Divination Elf Generalist/Dweomerkeeper/Metaphysical Spellshaper/Incantrix

As you can see, I'm torn. I want the Playground's opinion on which would be the better choice or better suggestions on PrCs.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Starting level, and expected max level, please.

With a Beguler/Shadowcraft Mage build, be sure to get the feats Magical Training (PGtF) and Versatile Spellcaster (RotD). Learn more Wizard spells and put them into that spellbook, then cast them using Versatile Spellcaster. That gives you early access to the next higher level of the Beguiler spell list as well, and allows entry into Shadowcraft Mage as early as Beguiler 4 if you can somehow get six feats by then. Beguiler is actually not as good as Wizard for Shadowcraft Mage due to the number of options available to a Wizard.

How are you getting the divine spells for Dweomerkeeper? None of that stuff you have listed there does it. I'd go Wizard 5/ Incantatrix 10/ Mindbender 1/ Paragnostic Apostle 4 instead. Metamagic Effect and Cooperative Metamagic for persistent buffs by 7th level, with an item familiar and taking ten to always succeed, is far more useful than any advantage Dweomerkeeper could offer.

[Tokuhara]

3-20

The reason behind Beguiler is the better skills and the more focused spell list. Sure wizard has options (see build 2), but in a party with 3 beatsticks, a rogue, a healbot/buffer, a blastomancer sorcerer, a paladin and me, I can survive with a more specialized list.

And my bad. I didn't have the update on Dweomerkeeper, so whoopsie.

Would an Easy Bake Wizard 5/Mage of the Arcane Order 7/Metaphysical Spellshaper 3/Incantrix 5 be a good build?

[Acanous]

Given your party, either build is going to outshine the entire group, with only the cleric able to keep up, and the sorceror able to still have SOMETHING to do.

I'd go the tinker gnome just because it's less crazy powerful. It'd be a little closer if you started wiz instead of beguiler, but the killer gnome is still outdone by an Incantatrix.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I meant Wizard gets options like Master Specialist (illusionist) 4, these ACFs (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#illusionistVariants), the feat Enhanced Shadow Reality from Dragon 325 for +20%, Gnome Wizard 1 which makes Silent Image a 0-level spell, and the fact that you can be equal in versatility to a spontaneous caster with two feats (Signature Spell: Silent Image and Uncanny Forethought). Any one of those things makes a Wizard better at Shadowcraft Mage than any other class.

Dweomerkeeper (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20040522a)

I'd probably go with a Batman Wizard, take Incantatrix asap, and make the party pool some cash for a Minor Ring of Spell Storing that you use to Cooperative Metamagic: Persist personal-range buffs onto them with.

[Tokuhara]

Given your party, either build is going to outshine the entire group, with only the cleric able to keep up, and the sorceror able to still have SOMETHING to do.

I'd go the tinker gnome just because it's less crazy powerful. It'd be a little closer if you started wiz instead of beguiler, but the killer gnome is still outdone by an Incantatrix.

With our numbers, it seems to be less noticeable than in a smaller party.

And that's one for Killer Gnome and one for Easy Bake

[Tokuhara]

Anyone else gonna vote?

[Sith_Happens]

Killer Gnome. Because seriously, read the build name again. Killer. Gnome.

Also, since this is an FR campaign, the Killer Gnome is a fitting concept to fit Shadow Weave Magic into somewhere.

[Tokuhara]

Killer Gnome. Because seriously, read the build name again. Killer. Gnome.

Also, since this is an FR campaign, the Killer Gnome is a fitting concept to fit Shadow Weave Magic into somewhere.

Like I said, I was torn between Killer Gnome and Easy Bake God, because both are just awesome. And I know normally Killer Gnome is done with a Whisper Gnome, but are there any other Gnome Subraces (like Tinker or others) that would be a benefit to an Int/Con focused build (Int for Casting and Skill Points, Con for HP)?

[Alleran]

Dweomerkeeper (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20040522a)

I'd probably go with a Batman Wizard, take Incantatrix asap, and make the party pool some cash for a Minor Ring of Spell Storing that you use to Cooperative Metamagic: Persist personal-range buffs onto them with.
Since it's a Faerun game, he might justifiably be able to look into the Spellguard of Silverymoon class. IIRC, it adds the ability to cast Personal-range spells on other targets, and it's still full casting (and only a five-level class) anyway.

[Tokuhara]

Wow. Yet another vote for Easy Bake God.

So we, once again, are tied 2/2

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Since it's a Faerun game, he might justifiably be able to look into the Spellguard of Silverymoon class. IIRC, it adds the ability to cast Personal-range spells on other targets, and it's still full casting (and only a five-level class) anyway.

Spellguard can only do defensive spells with that, so very few of the standard persistable buffs like Wraithstrike, Swift Expeditious Retreat, Swift Fly, etc.

[Tokuhara]

Well, my big concern is that the party is very melee heavy, so some ranged prowess is welcomed, whether using the Easy Bake God or the Killer Gnome.

And a great suggestion on the Spellguard. I'll definitely look into it.

[Dusk Eclipse]

IIRC polymorph and shapechange do qualify for guard of silverymoon since they give a bonus to natural armour, so there is that.

[Akal Saris]

Killer gnome!

Unless your DM is a real stickler about illusions and never lets them work, that is. It's why I often can't play illusion or enchantment based spellcasters.

[Tokuhara]

Well either way, both are amazing options.

[GreenSerpent]

War Weaver (Heroes of Battle) perhaps? Buff ALL the allies!

And Metaphysical Spellshaper is Tier 0 casting of the finest order, unless your DM rules that the ability damage bypasses immunity (and deals CHA damage to undead/constructs instead of CON). Or is ability burn. Be careful unless you want the DM to start casting Launch Object on his books aimed at you. 1d6 bludgeoning damage on Commoner HD = painful.

[Diarmuid]

IIRC polymorph and shapechange do qualify for guard of silverymoon since they give a bonus to natural armour, so there is that.

Neither spell actually gives a bonus to natural armor so they would not qualify. Yes one of the benefits of the changing shape is gaining the NA of the form, but it's not Cast Spell = Get NA +X like barkskin.

[Sith_Happens]

1d6 bludgeoning damage on Commoner HD = painful.

I'd argue that most people growing up in modern society are Experts, actually.

[Tokuhara]

Well, the DM said MpSs is allowed with no modification, however the DM said if it causes too much trouble, he'll yank the three levels and make me pick 3 new levels.

And thinking things over, IDK what Gnome Subraces are "Ideal" for Killer Gnome.

[Gavinfoxx]

Races..

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1281

Arcane Gnome? Tinker Gnome? Wild Gnome? Half-Gnome?

[Kuulvheysoon]

You're going to be overpowering the whole party anyways, so I might as well toss out the Stoneblessed (Gnome) option. Losing three caster levels (really) hurts, but it will effectively remove all racial prerequisites.

[Tokuhara]

Races..

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1281

Arcane Gnome? Tinker Gnome? Wild Gnome? Half-Gnome?

I'm torn between Arcane, Tinker, and Wild personally. All three are great choices.