splash weapon sneak attack optimization

[Phaederkiel]

As we know, splash weapons are a good way to deal precision damage.

Especially since they are far easier to hit with, as they only require a touch attack.

but how do we get a third strike per round without having quick draw?

I think putting Least crystals of return on splash weapons is not very useful, since a) you possibly cannot get splash weapons as masterwork
b) you would burn a lot of money crashing masterwork weapons
c) even if you did so, there is a high chance that you destroy your crystals.

all this makes the crystals massively uneconomic.

quick draw costs a feat, and we have too little feats.

so, is there some bandolier or something which lets us quickdraw those splashweapons as a item?


as feats I am thinking of two-weapon fighting, precise shot and rapid shot.


question 2: those are weapon rolls, so that the DotU hit-and-run fighters dex to damage applies, does it not?
should knowledge devotion apply too?

oh, and question 3:
does shaped splash deal sneak attack damage on the second attack?

[Diarmuid]

3.0 FRCS has the MW Potion belt which holds 10 potions (easy argument for flask of alchemist fire to take up the same space as a potion) and allows for drawing a potion 1/round as a free action.

So you'd need to already have the other 2 potions to hand before starting your full attack action, but this would let you get the third attack in w/o needing Quick Draw.

[Gotterdammerung]

Was gonna say the potion belt, but is alredy there xD.

Yes the hit and run and knowledge domain will apply but only to the initial target. Sneak attack, the hit and run and the knowledge wont apply to the splash dmg. Other stuff like bardic music will also apply to the initial hit.

Some other interesting things for a mad chemist build

Grenadier feat PHB2

You are an expert with splash weapons and all manner of incendiary mixtures. You gain a +1 bonus on attack rolls with splash weapons and a +1 bonus on the weapon's damage (including splash damage).

It is a fighter bonus feat as well.

It is also a prerequ for Mad Alchemist, which is a alchemical item based tactical feat. I don't really recommend it but you might like it.

Check the MIC for wierd magic items, I think I remember something like a glove of storing type thing that might help with the drawing of the flasks.


Also, as a cautionary warning. Alchemical fire does fire dmg. Any dmg you add to it from tricky stuff will still be fire dmg. There is acid flasks as well. But if you run into anything immune or highly resistant to acid and fire... your going to be sitting on your hands.

[Phaederkiel]

since I am the DM, I know exactly whom I am gonna bombard :smallamused:

I somehow think that those splash weapons are far better than anything a rogue ever gets anywhere else.

If I read it right, even craven applies happily.


just for the people who follow us here:

are any of you having any Ideas for really mean things to throw at people?
I mean, as in cheap and effective, not as in lotus poison.

[Chilingsworth]

Well, not throwing, but I've always thought a Spectral Dagger (or two) would be nice for a finesse rogue. (Always a melee touch attack, acts as chill touch, including a 5% chance [well, ok DC 11 save, almost the same thing] of dealing a point of strength damage.) Strength modifier isn't applied to the damage. Each dagger is 6,000 gp.

[Phaederkiel]

where does it come from?

[Curmudgeon]

3.0 FRCS has the MW Potion belt which holds 10 potions (easy argument for flask of alchemist fire to take up the same space as a potion) and allows for drawing a potion 1/round as a free action.
I'm afraid that's not an easy argument at all, seeing as it's literally impossible. A potion is a 1 ounce vial. A flask is a 1 pint container.

From page 126 of Player's Handbook:
Flask: This ceramic, glass, or metal container is fitted with a tight stopper and holds 1 pint of liquid. And on the next page:
Vial: This ceramic, glass, or metal vial is fitted with a tight stopper and holds 1 ounce of liquid. The stoppered container usually is no more than 1 inch wide and 3 inches high. There's a factor of 16 difference. An entire filled potion belt won't hold as much as a single flask. Something big enough to use as a thrown weapon is much bigger than a single dose medicine bottle.

[Diarmuid]

A tip of the cap to you sir.

[Phaederkiel]

I have found the spell Spring sheath to be able to provide you with a steady supply of weaponry, or flaskery.

okay, you have to be an assassin to cast it, but let us face it:
you are probably easily able to fit that one level in if you want it.

[Gavinfoxx]

FRCS has both a Masterwork Bandolier AND a Masterwork Potion Belt...

[Chilingsworth]

where does it come from?

Sorry.

It's in the Magic Item Compendium.

It's a specific weapon.

[Twilightwyrm]

Or you could just get Quick Draw. :smallannoyed: It is, in fact, a decent feat (I dare not count the number of times it has not merely saved me a headache, but saves my character's lives), if somewhat let down by the fact that you can buy some of its effect. But since in this case you can't, you really might as well.

[Metahuman1]

Ok, I'm curious, is there anything out there other then Alchemist Fire and Acid Flasks a character built like this could use? Something to get cold, electric, sonic, force, dessication or other damage type?

[Chilingsworth]

Ok, I'm curious, is there anything out there other then Alchemist Fire and Acid Flasks a character built like this could use? Something to get cold, electric, sonic, force, dessication or other damage type?

Well, there are some substances in one of the Eberron books. Either the Campaign Setting of Magic of Eberron, iirc. Also, there are thunderstones right out of core.

[Metahuman1]

Well, there are some substances in one of the Eberron books. Either the Campaign Setting of Magic of Eberron, iirc. Also, there are thunderstones right out of core.

I thought all thunderstones did was force a save vs being blind? A sort of Ye Old Flashbang Grenade?

[Chilingsworth]

I thought all thunderstones did was force a save vs being blind? A sort of Ye Old Flashbang Grenade?

against hour-long deafness, actually. funny, I thought it did a little bit of sonic damage.

[Metahuman1]

Huh, interesting.

Having said that, is there any way to apply bonus damage sources to those in the splash area? Cause that would be the icing on the cake for a build like this.

[Piggy Knowles]

It's worth pointing out that Master Thrower gets Quick Draw as a bonus feat, and its thrown weapon tricks should work with splash weapons.

I'm also a fan of Alchemist Savant from Magic of Eberron. You need casting to qualify (Assassin works), but you get the ability to use spells as thrown weapons, and most importantly you can create alchemical combos. So, for instance, you could combine, say, Acid with Black Lotus poison. Now everyone damaged by the acid (even those who just took splash damage) must also save versus poison, and the main target takes sneak attack damage to boost. If you're tossing multiple vials, and you have an easy way to create poisons (such as minor creation - which you can pick up via the same dragonmarks that will qualify you for Alchemist Savant), it can be a pretty nasty combo.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Q2: Both should apply to damage. They are weapons. It would only apply on the primary target, not on splash damage, of course.

Q3: Yes! :smallsmile: