Psionic Plonk, er....maybe Psychic Moladin?

[Pandoras Folly]

So I decided to play a monk in the new campaign I'm in, yes im aware of its problems but the dice gods love me playing a monk and who am I to deny their nat20s. Rest of the party is a paladin, ranger, and fighter ( going to try and convince him to play warblade, crusader, or psychic warrior).

So im trying to put together monk, paladin, psychic and get as much out of them as possible. Aesthetic monk will allow
I took vow of poverty at first level so free exalted feats
Aesthetic knight will allow limited stacking of paladin and monk
Serenity feat to substitute my wisdom for charisma for paladin abilities.
Psionic class, probably ardent, will get kashlata...kalashtar...I can never spell that feat so it stacks with monk levels for key monk abilities.
Intuitive attack will allow wisdom to replace strength

Paladin is a interesting for a 3 to five lvel dip it would be good, but are there better options that will stack in the same manner?

Something else...prestige paladin what's its purpose?
Any suggestions thanks.



Also thanks for all the great suggestions in my last thread.

[Psyren]

1) Go with Ardent rather than Psychic Warrior. Still Wis-based and same HD/BAB, but it is much more powerful and multi-class friendly as you can get up to 9ths even with only ML 13. Since you're dipping Paladin (and likely fighting unarmed anyway) you don't need Psywar's proficiencies. Google up samb's Ardent handbook for more info and mantle advice.

2) Take the Tashalatora feat (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20070212a&page=5) from Secrets of Sarlona. This will allow your psionic class levels to continue advancing your monk abilities.

3) Don't dump Strength completely; Intuitive Attack adds Wis to hit, but not damage. Serenity-fueled smites will get you Wis to damage but these are limited per day.

4) With Ardent, the Substitute Powers (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a) ACF will let you mix and match to build a custom list of powers that match the themes of your mantles. Talk this one over with your DM and, if he allows it, you should be able to build a nice list that outperforms anything the Psywar brings to the table. But even if you can't get this approved, there are great mantle choices for the unmodified scenario.

[JeminiZero]

Darn. Psyren has ninja'ed most of the things I wanted to say.


So I decided to play a monk in the new campaign I'm in

Normally, playing a Monk isn't ideal, but from the looks of this:


Rest of the party is a paladin, ranger, and fighter

you should have nothing to worry about.


Something else...prestige paladin what's its purpose?

Prestige Paladin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm) lets a Divine Caster (usually Cleric) pick up some Paladin abilities at the cost of losing caster levels.

[Larkas]

Hmmmm... I second the Ardent choice. Tentative build:

Paladin 2/ Monk 2/ Ardent 16

It gets all the most important Paladin and Monk abilities, and finishes with Ardent. It ends @ +15/+10/+5 BAB, though. If you want 4 base attacks, maybe take:

Paladin 4/ Monk 2/ Ardent 14

It should work well, and ends at +16/+11/+6/+1 BAB. I don't know if it's particularly well optimized, however.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Alright, I'll break the trend.

War Mind.

Specifically, something more like Paladin 3/Monk 2/Warmind 10 (assuming game ends at ECL 15ish), ending with a BAB of +14 (at ECL 15).

Make sure to pick up Hidden Talent (Dimension hop, or something similarly useful). If possible, a flaw for Education to make picking up the Knowledge skills less painful.

Also Wis-based manifesting, but on a more accelerated track (than PsyWar), along with some DR/- and the nice Sweeping Strike at ECL 10.

[Draz74]

In general, I prefer PsyWar in Tashalatora builds rather than Ardent; it feels more Monk-y to me, and if your DM is fairly stingy about Mantle Substitution (as opposed to basically letting the Ardent pick whatever powers he wants), it's comparable in power.

But throwing Paladin into the mix certainly makes Ardent a lot more tempting, since it's so multiclass-friendly. Although more feats sure would be nice ... argh! Basically, this build is trying to do enough different things that it's going to have to make some sacrifices somewhere.

Even with Ardent psionic levels, though, more than two levels of Paladin starts to hurt your casting ability quite a lot. So if you really want e.g. Turn Undead, Kuulvheysoon's suggestion of War Mind starts to look quite sensible, since its psionic progression caps at 10 of your 20 levels. It won't be as powerful as a well-build Ardent build, but it might be more Paladin-y, and still very playable. Good BAB, too.

If you get Paladin 4, and Travel Devotion, it will certainly make your psionic abilities more flexible, since you won't have to focus so much on Dimension Hop/Hustle/Psionic Lion's Charge/etc., in order to move and still make a full attack. (Especially since you can also use Paladin Spellcasting, e.g. Wand of Lion's Charge.) I'm curious what other uses for Turn Undead you were considering.

Paladin 3 probably isn't worth it, unless you go on to Paladin 4. Paladin 5 also probably isn't worth it, unless maybe if you were planning to go for the Charging Smite ACF. (Which doesn't go so well with Travel Devotion, but does work very well with (Psionic) Lion's Charge. Although it is best with Wild Cohort and Spirited Charge, which is ... a lot more feats. You will be very feat-starved unless you go PsyWar.) The standard Mount feature, as well as the Healing Spirit ACF, just aren't that great at the level you get them; they're more for pure-Paladin builds.

[Psyren]

Ardent feels more monk-y to me. Which one is a monk more likely to do - contemplate the mysteries of life and the universe, or learn how to wear armor and use shields?

Concerning War Mind - it has great features and more PP in 10 levels than Psywar gets, so if it's between Psywar and War Mind I'd probably go with War Mind. But do note that Psywar catches up with it around level 15 and surpasses it after that.

[Draz74]

Ardent feels more monk-y to me. Which one is a monk more likely to do - contemplate the mysteries of life and the universe, or learn how to wear armor and use shields?
You do realize that Ardents learn how to wear armor and use shields, too, right? :smalltongue:

Often, a PsyWar will have the feats to pick up things like Snap Kick, Sun School, and Psionic Meditation/Linked Power/Metapower (Linked Hustle), while an Ardent will not. Using feats like that seems more like a martial artist than the things an Ardent will be doing instead, such as changing into a fleshraker.


Concerning War Mind - it has great features and more PP in 10 levels than Psywar gets, so if it's between Psywar and War Mind I'd probably go with War Mind. But do note that Psywar catches up with it around level 15 and surpasses it after that.
Which is why I said it was only a good idea if he wanted enough Paladin + Monk levels that he wouldn't get 15 levels in his psionic class anyway!

[Psyren]

You do realize that Ardents learn how to wear armor and use shields, too, right? :smalltongue:

Ha, true :smallbiggrin: But Psywars are defined by that warrior mindset (as evidenced by the MWP) rather than by any of the more spiritual or contemplative aspects of their mental powers. I suppose you could capture some of that flavor with Mantled Warrior though.



Often, a PsyWar will have the feats to pick up things like Snap Kick, Sun School, and Psionic Meditation/Linked Power/Metapower (Linked Hustle), while an Ardent will not. Using feats like that seems more like a martial artist than the things an Ardent will be doing instead, such as changing into a fleshraker.

I didn't say anything about metamorphosis actually; the main thing is that, even without Natural World, Ardent gets far more PP than either a Psywar or a War Mind has access to. You don't need Snap Kick and Sun School to feel like a martial artist I'd say, and you won't really need Metapower either with your pool being that big. So the feats end up being more of a wash.

[Pandoras Folly]

Yeah oping is not a huge concern so not being focused is not a real worry.
For example dm wants us to put ranks in our profession so I picked lawyer...im a monk with a vow of poverty who does pro bono work for the needy.

Warmind.. Never done it but it looks interesting more so than psywarrior
Ardent..... Probably where im going the fluff is verymuch there.
Feat starved... A little but monks always are, im definetly taking improved natural attack to bump my weapon dice up a size cat, then using expansion to inupchuck and grow 2 size catagories.
Smite.....really I just like to say I smite you in the name of ....... If anyone can thknk of something to do with it otherwise. Note I also get an exalted feat every other level, lots of smite support there.

Crusader... I would reallllllly rather use it instead of paladin, buuuuut the cross class feat support just aint there. Heck I just reread it and I might just take 4 crusader and 2 paladin even withou the support. Being immune to disease would be nice if I took a 3rd level paladin.

[Spuddles]

Doesn't VoP get you disease immunity?

[Pandoras Folly]

Yeap, just figured that out, so 2 lvls of paladin

[Metahuman1]

Is it too late to suggest Person_Man's "Sir Wisdome the SAD" Build? Possibly with a tap of Incarnum Recharge Trick tacked on?

Edit:

The top one here.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177889

Plus the Sir Wisdome the SAD build here, it's under King of Pong and You Can't Touch This.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125732

Edit The second:

Might it be possible to convince the rest of the party to go Warblade (for the fighter.) Crusaider (For the Paladin.) Mystic Wildshape Ranger (For the Ranger?)