[PF] Contingency - Vague Wording, looking for opinions

[subject42]

I'll be playing in a Pathfinder game starting tomorrow, and since I'm playing an INT-based character for the first time, I'd eventually like to pick up contingency (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/contingency).

There's one sentence in the spell description that concerns me:



If complicated or convoluted conditions are prescribed, the whole spell combination (contingency and the companion magic) may fail when triggered.


As DMs or players, how have you handled this clause in the past? I'd like to open a dialogue with my DM sooner rather than later, and I'd like to see what the standard of Reasonableness is.

[AttilaTheGeek]

I've never had problems with it. Just be sure not to say "when something threatens me" (too general), or "when a hobgoblin swings a sword at me" (too specific). It's basically a way to get people to not cheese Contingency.

[Harugami]

The way it reads is computer logic, therefore you can use it any way you can use if/then. For example:
IF enemy in adjacent square
THEN activate invisibility

it reads like basic computer logic for AI as a very broad and general rule, that being said you can't make it too specific or it may not be triggered or too broad forcing it to activate to soon:
IF enemies attack
THEN activate invisibility
the definition of enemies attacking would be an encounter meaning the second you enter combat invisibility would activate sooner then you want it too

Does that make sense? if not I could try again

[TuggyNE]

Building on Harugami's example, I'd suggest asking for a Spellcraft roll (DC 15 + level of triggered spell + 2 for every condition??) in order to figure out whether the condition is likely to work roughly as you'd expect.

[Slipperychicken]

The way it reads is computer logic

I like this. Much less ambiguity for a DM to screw you with.

Also, you can have it trigger on you saying something specific (a free action for you). Like quickly saying a short code (like L486) in an obscure language. As long as you aren't in a Silence or something, this makes it certain the effect will take place when you desire.

[Harugami]

As both a Dm and a wiley player abusing rules is my specialty, so if you need any more help on rulings just link the thing and ill do my best to explain to you how it reads and whether it would work in your favor.

[AttilaTheGeek]

You could even trigger it to something like "when I wink three times with my right eye", so you could activate it in a Silence. You'd just have to be sure not to flirt really badly or forget the activation sequence.

[subject42]

My concern is "complicated or convoluted". I mean, Boolean logic is straightforward to me, but I'm a programmer. I'm concerned a DM might be upset by this and call it "convoluted".

IF ((A && H < 10) || ((B || C) && !D) THEN cast Teleport

The spellcraft check isn't a terrible idea.

[TuggyNE]

My concern is "complicated or convoluted". I mean, Boolean logic is straightforward to me, but I'm a programmer. I'm concerned a DM might be upset by this and call it "convoluted".

IF ((A && H < 10) || ((B || C) && !D) THEN cast Teleport

What you need here is a better variable naming scheme. :smallwink: Have you considered Apps Hungarian?

[Harugami]

Take what I said with a grain of salt I was only explaining to him how the spell would be used in the simplest way I could think of if he wants to over complicate it the Dm is the ultimate deciding factor on whether or not he can do it to this extent.