[Pathfinder] Building Kamina and Simon?

[maximus25]

Alright, so in my Pathfinder game my wizard was put into retirement after I deemed it too strong for the current party.

So, I've decided to make Kamina and buff everyone else so I don't feel like I'm overshadowing them.

The DM is allowing me to be level 8, same as my wizard beforehand. I've always thought of Kamina as a Bard, his perform skill would be Oratory, and I asked if I was allowed to make motivational speeches as my stuff instead of epics or stories. My DM allowed it, but I have to actually make speeches and I'll get a bonus or a minus depending on how well he thinks I did.

As my 8th level feat I'm going to take Leadership (Already approved by DM), building Simon as my cohort.

I have no idea what to make Simon, or what else I can do for Kamina.

Any suggestions? Any Pathfinder book is allowed, as long as I can show it to my DM. I've got 33,000 gold to work with.

[Harugami]

I always though of kamina as more of a caviler (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/cavalier) because his speeches would be like the tactician ability buffing everyone and he does tend to challenge enemies to 1v1 a lot.

As for simon make him a summoner (hes fairly squishy) and make his eidolon a construct man sized robot.

[maximus25]

I always though of kamina as more of a caviler (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/cavalier) because his speeches would be like the tactician ability buffing everyone and he does tend to challenge enemies to 1v1 a lot.

As for simon make him a summoner (hes fairly squishy) and make his eidolon a construct man sized robot.

Caviliers have mounts, though. Kamina is the pilot of Gurren. I sort of see it, though.

[Harugami]

I'm sure there is a mount less cavalier somewhere or at least you can paint your mount gurren colors or dye its fur lol

[maximus25]

There is a way to take away the mount, but Caviliers also have to be part of an order, but Kamina is the leader of Team Dai-Gurren.

[Harugami]

The more you think about it the more it lines up inside your pink squishy bits huh?

[Dusk Eclipse]

I think you fell in the single, biggest mistake when building a character from a show/comic/non-d&d source. You are trying to make it exactly the same as in the show and that is a problem since D&D or in this case Pathfinder wasn't designed to perfectly emulate anything. The best you can do is to make some concession when they are needed, in this case if Cavaliers have to be part of an Order, start your Kamina on the lower rungs of the order and ask your DM that as the game progresses so do you, climbing up until you are the leader of the order OR at some point allow you to start your own order.

Simon as a summoner (possibly Synthetist) is spot on though... (you could probably try to re-fluff your Summoned monster as the Ganmen(?) of the other members of the Dai-gurren brigade.

[maximus25]

Sort of.

Caviliers have to have a flag, Team Dai-Gurren's flag, but have to be part of a specific order. They only give people a bonus feat, not inspire them to greatness. They have a mount as part of the class, but I can trade it away. If I trade it away I lose out on most of the class.


Bards inspire others to be better at things, which is Kamina's whole thing. Bards work off charisma, which Kamina had boatloads of. They're not too great at combat, but then neither was Kamina. He even admits that he was all bluster and that Simon was the one that made his talk more than words.

So Kamina is the inspirational leader of the party, and Simon is his doer, the method to his madness.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Then use bard, they can be quite awesome and from a quick check on the PFSRD the basic bard works wonder.

[Harugami]

you could make him a bard but I still stand by at least 1 lvl of cavalier for challenge he may not be good at fighting, but when it comes down to it he's the one who started the contest

[maximus25]

Works for me.


So, Simon is a Synthesist Summoner? Makes sense to me, maybe I can ask my DM if it can look like a Gunmen and instead of going back to its plane it's just in for repairs. Functionally the same, but fluffed differently. I can also give up spells, since Simon never showed a penchant for spellcasting, for a different archetype package.

[Mcdt2]

If 3rd party stuff is allowed, check out the Inspiring Commander archetype for Cavalier (Rite Publishing) (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/cavalier/archetypes/rite-publishing---cavalier-archetypes/inspiring-commander). It gets bardic music, and improved aid another that is a move action, and also gains the ability to aid another at a distance by giving speeches. Gives up mount, the charge ability, alters tactician. Sadly it also removes the "banner" ability, which would work very well with Kamina's cape. Not sure how to get that back in, probably could use a magic item of some sort to get the same feel though. Maybe the Standard of Valor (part of the Five Virtues set) from Magic Item Compendium? It's a shoulder slot item that gives allies rerolls against fear effects, and allows you to power it with uses of the 3.5 knights Fighting Challenge ability. I'm sure you could convince your DM to let it work with the Cavalier challenge, of course.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I doubt there is an Archetype that completely removes spellcasting as Summoner is a primary spellcasting class. As I said before, compromise.

[Harugami]

you need the spell that's basically burrow speed through solid rock stone something or other its a perfect fit for both him and his summon also leaden fist and anything along the lines of magical improvements that aren't flashy but rather good fit for a "robot"

[maximus25]

I doubt there is an Archetype that completely removes spellcasting as Summoner is a primary spellcasting class. As I said before, compromise.

Not an Archetype, an Archetype package. On this page (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/super-genius-games/adept-godling/archetypes/super-genius-games---adept-godling-archetypes/physical-exemplar) the sidebar talks about them, and how you can mix and match them. Part of the Summoner's package is his spell casting, which you can give up for something else.


Also, that Inspiring Commander thing would work for Kamina, but it's off intelligence, not Charisma. Kamina wasn't known for his intelligence.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I've never saw that before, it is interesting though.

[Deathkeeper]

Well, if you don't mind going out of normal PF books you could do the Soulknife and flavor the Mind Blade as a drill. I did this once, although I imported Warforged as to actually make the character the GL.

[Mcdt2]

Also, that Inspiring Commander thing would work for Kamina, but it's off intelligence, not Charisma. Kamina wasn't known for his intelligence.

Drat, I didn't notice that. Well, I would say Kamina is actually pretty smart, but definitely not primary stat smart. MAybe about a 12? definitely like a 6 in wisdom though. At any rate, I'm a leniant DM when it comes to things tied to ability scores, I usually allow refluffing and reassinging them, if I feel like the player isn't trying to break the game with it, that is. If I use this at my table, would probably give the player's the option to choose whether Cha or Int is the mod they use, chosen at level 1, and can't be changed, even via retraining. That's just me though, I have almost as much homebrew at the table as I have the actual game.

[maximus25]

Drat, I didn't notice that. Well, I would say Kamina is actually pretty smart, but definitely not primary stat smart. MAybe about a 12? definitely like a 6 in wisdom though. At any rate, I'm a leniant DM when it comes to things tied to ability scores, I usually allow refluffing and reassinging them, if I feel like the player isn't trying to break the game with it, that is. If I use this at my table, would probably give the player's the option to choose whether Cha or Int is the mod they use, chosen at level 1, and can't be changed, even via retraining. That's just me though, I have almost as much homebrew at the table as I have the actual game.

Yeah, I'll definitely ask my DM about it. I like cavilear, but I just think Bard works better.

[Harugami]

If these archetype packages work the way I think they do you could lose caviler houseman to give him bardic performance or lose the bards spell singer for the knight package, and since this seems like a fairly legal, non gamebreaking, and straightforward thing all you have to do is show him this or the 3rd party book it is in

[maximus25]

I don't know about that. If that were the case, I could be a Bard, take away my musical abilities and replace them with say, Wizard casting.

Then I'd have Wizard and Bard casting with Bard's good reflex and will, BaB, and skills. Seems a tad OP to me.

I'll ask my DM about it though, and if he allows it I'll have the Cavilier's challenge and tactician abilities and the Bard's inspire abilities with no spell casting.

What would I take for Simon, if I'm giving up his spell casting package? Maybe a Barbarian's berserk package? Simon was known for his berserk rages.

[maximus25]

Thoughts on feats for Kamina? Power Attack is a must, but other than that I'm at a blank.

[DMVerdandi]

In my opinion, Instead of a cavalier, Honestly a carbon copy of Kamina would be better exemplifed by the samurai with the 3rd party shogun Alternate class. It still has the use of the the banner, and enhanced resolve powers.

All of the Shogun(Samurai)'s Powers would express things like Kamina's unwillingness to go down in a fight, and his GAR.

His Cape and Tattoo would be the banners in his possession.


For Simon, Honestly, Spiral power would be best exemplified as divine power, and for that reason, he would be an awesome cleric of strength[Ferocity & Resolve] and artifice [Construct].

Guren-Lagann could simply be a colossal animated spiked adamantium Full Plate with a Permanent shrink item spell.
That way It could be shrunk back to the guren, and expanded into the guren-lagann.
Using the cleric spells, the GL could be enhanced with spiral power.


Now Viral... Viral would be a fun one to do.

[maximus25]

In my opinion, Instead of a cavalier, Honestly a carbon copy of Kamina would be better exemplifed by the samurai with the 3rd party shogun Alternate class. It still has the use of the the banner, and enhanced resolve powers.

All of the Shogun(Samurai)'s Powers would express things like Kamina's unwillingness to go down in a fight, and his GAR.

His Cape and Tattoo would be the banners in his possession.


For Simon, Honestly, Spiral power would be best exemplified as divine power, and for that reason, he would be an awesome cleric of strength[Ferocity & Resolve] and artifice [Construct].

Guren-Lagann could simply be a colossal animated spiked adamantium Full Plate with a Permanent shrink item spell.
That way It could be shrunk back to the guren, and expanded into the guren-lagann.
Using the cleric spells, the GL could be enhanced with spiral power.


Now Viral... Viral would be a fun one to do.

My friend is planning on doing Viral. So any thoughts you have on him can be shared as well.

[DMVerdandi]

My friend is planning on doing Viral. So any thoughts you have on him can be shared as well.

If you guys are determined to use Ganmen, then the Animated collosal full plate can work as a template for the ganmen.

If that doesn't matter, and it's going to be played outside of the ganmen, Definitely Savage Barbarian.

What do you think about the Simon and Kamina Builds?
Kamina is not a cleric like Simon because he always had very low spiral power.
I think the Simon build is a work of art though... He could use his drill as his holy symbol.

[maximus25]

If you guys are determined to use Ganmen, then the Animated collosal full plate can work as a template for the ganmen.

If that doesn't matter, and it's going to be played outside of the ganmen, Definitely Savage Barbarian.

What do you think about the Simon and Kamina Builds?
Kamina is not a cleric like Simon because he always had very low spiral power.
I think the Simon build is a work of art though... He could use his drill as his holy symbol.

I like them. There are multiple ways to approach the Gunmen in Pathfinder.

Synthesist Summoner works, because your eidolon is any shape you want it to be, and it becomes one with you.

Cleric for Simon also works, his Diety being the concept of the Spiral, with the Strength and Construct domains, with a physical Gunmen to pilot.

Samurai for Kamina instead of Cavilier also is good, but isn't it just Cavilier with some different things?

[Arbane]

Thoughts on feats for Kamina? Power Attack is a must, but other than that I'm at a blank.

ALL the luck and hero-point feats.

Also, I think you guys have it backwards: Kamina was _Simon's_ cohort. It's just that nobody knew that (not even them) until Episode 11 or so.

[DMVerdandi]

I like them. There are multiple ways to approach the Gunmen in Pathfinder.

Synthesist Summoner works, because your eidolon is any shape you want it to be, and it becomes one with you.

Cleric for Simon also works, his Diety being the concept of the Spiral, with the Strength and Construct domains, with a physical Gunmen to pilot.

Samurai for Kamina instead of Cavilier also is good, but isn't it just Cavilier with some different things?

Yep the samurai is different than the cavalier because of it's resolve points and a few other features which make it more about willpower than horsemanship and cavalry. the shogun gets rid of the mount altogether to further increase the manliness of the class.

Not to mention, it gives you proficiency in the katana, the most deadly weapon in the world, wielded by kamina himself.:smallcool: