[3.5] Beware the leotard

[_flint_]

I'm building a backup character for a low level campaign of mine. The idea is that I'll play an over the top all-star wrestler. Thought I'd post it here to get some ideas.

Restrictions are: Can't be evil, can't use psionics, incarnum or tome of magic.

Party level is ~3, but I'm shooting for ECL 5

I want to eventually go reaping mauler and want to qualify as soon as possible. I want to be grappling every turn. Monk seems like it would add a lot to the class, but I'm hesitant to lose BAB. I was thinking barbarian. I also want to be useful in large fights against many enemies, but don't quite know how to accomplish that.

For now all that I'm sure of is that I'll be a human with jotunbrud for my bonus feat, maxxing out my strength

Funny idea that would make me MAD as all get out would be to go knight and play around with knight's challenge.

[ZeroNumerous]

Restrictions are: Can't be evil, can't use psionics, incarnum or tome of magic.

So spells are on the table? Okay.


... reaping mauler ... Monk ... BAB ... barbarian ... I also want to be useful in large fights against many enemies, but don't quite know how to accomplish that.

You're going about it the wrong way then. You don't take Jotunbrud, nor do you focus on Strength, be a Barbarian, Monk, aim for Reaping Mauler, or any of the other common grappling traps.

Try playing a Focused Specialist Transmutation Wizard with an Octopus familiar(Stormwrack). Pick Improved Unarmed Strike and Improved Grapple as your feats. Then put your highest score in Intelligence, because you like casting buff spells. Then second highest into Strength, because you like grabbing people. You should have an unbuffed bonus of +8 to +10(4 from Grapple, 3 from your Octopus, +1 to 3 from STR) at level 1. Buffing your strength via spells improves this, or using spells such as fearsome grapple, babau slime, enlarge person, bladeweave, alter self, and even the occasional bull's strength if you want it.

Stacking Enlarge Person, Bull's Strength, and Fearsome Grapple gives you a grapple bonus of +19-21 depending on your Strength at level 3.

[Vizzerdrix]

I want to eventually go reaping mauler

Don't. It makes you worse at grappling, and the capstone ability can be obtained with a feat. In fact, the feat version is much, much better.

If you don't want to mess with magic too much, A lesser Gray Dwarf can get Enlarge person as a SLA a few times a day. Mix in Half Minotaur and that should be enough to get you up to huge size. Barbarian/fighter into Fist of the Forest can be decent for this.

[ArcturusV]

Yeah but that doesn't sound like a "Wrestler". I mean if the idea is to have the Wrestler mystique and appearance, rather than "just do what a Wrestler does", you're probably going to have to Fighter.

Though Shaman might be a good choice if the class got ported over to 3.5 more or less intact. I don't know if it did off the top of my head. Auto unarmed strike. Acceptable BAB and bonus feats, minor spell casting for buffs and special effects. Could even use the Animal Companion like a slimeball "Manager" who interferes in your fights.

[ZeroNumerous]

Yeah but that doesn't sound like a "Wrestler". I mean if the idea is to have the Wrestler mystique and appearance, rather than "just do what a Wrestler does", you're probably going to have to Fighter.

I assumed he meant more like a luchador rather than an actor, but if you're going for an actor who happens to grapple people then you'll need Bluff in class.

[_flint_]

I was actually thinking more of a WWE style wrestler, one who wears a silly costume and shouts a lot.

My main goals are to

1) deal as much damage as possible via grappling

2) be able to grapple anything and everything

3) somehow be able to do this to multiple creatures at once

The campaign is pretty low fantasy, so I can't be any sort of crazy creature. I'd like to go without spellcasting, but I'm open to any suggestions

[ZeroNumerous]

I was actually thinking more of a WWE style wrestler, one who wears a silly costume and shouts a lot.

You'll likely need Bluff or Perform(Comedy) as skills then.


1) deal as much damage as possible via grappling

2) be able to grapple anything and everything

3) somehow be able to do this to multiple creatures at once

Grapple wizard does that, and is just a totally human normal human who carries around an octopus in a jar full of water. If you want to grapple multiple creatures then you'll need some way to boost your check high enough to eat the -20 penalty for using just a natural weapon to grapple, and have enough natural weapons to grapple with.

If you're dead-set on not using magic though: You're better off hitting things with a sword/axe/mace/whatever.

[Arbane]

I was actually thinking more of a WWE style wrestler, one who wears a silly costume and shouts a lot.

My main goals are to

1) deal as much damage as possible via grappling

2) be able to grapple anything and everything

3) somehow be able to do this to multiple creatures at once

The campaign is pretty low fantasy, so I can't be any sort of crazy creature. I'd like to go without spellcasting, but I'm open to any suggestions

Does the DM allow Pathfinder stuff? Because this is what the Tetori Monk (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/tetori) archetype was made for.

[Murmaider]

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870826/Black_Blood_Cultist_Handbook:_A_Grapplers_Manual

You may want to take a look at this before you go the 'why not just play a wizard?' route.

And be sure to fully understand the grappling rules, it can really be a pain to have a player who focuses on grappling and has to go through the PHB all the time and still get it wrong.

[Greenish]

I'm building a backup character for a low level campaign of mine. The idea is that I'll play an over the top all-star wrestler. Thought I'd post it here to get some ideas.

Restrictions are: Can't be evil, can't use psionics, incarnum or tome of magic.

Party level is ~3, but I'm shooting for ECL 5

I want to eventually go reaping mauler and want to qualify as soon as possible. I want to be grappling every turn. Monk seems like it would add a lot to the class, but I'm hesitant to lose BAB. I was thinking barbarian. I also want to be useful in large fights against many enemies, but don't quite know how to accomplish that.

For now all that I'm sure of is that I'll be a human with jotunbrud for my bonus feat, maxxing out my strengthThis sounds like the job for Aquaman Fist of the Forest (CChamp.)!

A good entry might be Barbarian2/Fighter2. If Dragon Mags are game, make that fighter a pugilist variant from 310.


[Edit]: Disclaimer:
My main goals are to

1) deal as much damage as possible via grappling

2) be able to grapple anything and everything

3) somehow be able to do this to multiple creatures at onceFist of the Forest (or really, most any non-caster build within your sources) doesn't fulfill any of those goals (though has decent grappling damage).

[Metahuman1]

Ok, Grab Shaky as a flaw. Grab Another Low Impact flaw of your choosing.

Grab Improved unarmed strike, superior unarmed strike, Improved Grapple, Versitial spell caster, extra spell, and when you can, Scorpions Grasp.

Take a couple of Levels in Duskblade. Why? Because with extra spell and versitial spell caster you can get enough Enlarge person's to keep yourself buffed most of the time. Just have a readied action that goes off as soon as combat starts to super-size yourself.

Now, Grab a level in Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian for the Pounce. If you feel like it would help the build, take the second level to get Improved trip and take Knockdown. Personally I think that's a good combo for a WWE take off.

Lastly, Grab Levels in Warblade. Grab a trick or two form Iron Heart and White Raven, get most of the rest of your things form Tiger Claw and a few things from Stone Dragon like Mountain hammer. But you need to make sure, even if you have to buy them as martial scrolls to learn the stances, that you get Crushing Weight of the Mountain and Roots of the Mountain Stances. These will be a Hugh Boon too you.





Or if you want power over style, Play Druid, take improved Grapple and Natural spell. Boom, done.

[Darrin]

Hmm... no psionics or ToB makes it a bit tricky, but how about:

Name: Rhipp Tydhe (sailor gimmick) or Ollie Gator (swamp people gimmick)
Race: Goliath (LA +1, buyoff)
1) Battle Dancer 1. Feat: Iron Will. Bonus: Improved Unarmed Strike.
2) Barbarian 1. Mountain Rage racial substitution. Bear Totem: Improved Grab.
3) Fighter 1. Feat: Extra Rage. Bonus: Power Attack.
4) Fighter 2. Bonus: Versatile Unarmed Strike.
5) Ranger 1. Bonus: Track. Favored Enemy: Magical Beasts
6) Leviathan Hunter 1. Feat: Flying Kick.
7) Leviathan Hunter 2.
8) Leviathan Hunter 3. Bonus: Clever Wrestling.
9) Reaping Mauler 1. Feat: Earth's Embrace. Bonus: Improved Grapple, Mobility.

Battle Dancer (Dragon Compendium) gives you Cha bonus to AC (gotta "look purty" for all those promos). You lose out on stunning fist and some related feats, but not a big loss (and of course completely useless when "rasslin' sharktopussies".)

Mountain Rage gives you a non-magical (Ex) way to get large, and Leviathan Hunter gives you the Clever Wrestling feat regardless of your size. Reaping Mauler is still an awful PrC, but not as big of a huge pile of steaming fail.

Takes a while to get it all together, though... ask your DM if you can waive or ignore the "medium size" prereq on Clever Wrestling, and then you can skip the Leviathan Hunter levels.

[Krobar]

I love brawlers. The route I went, and there are certainly better ways to go, was as follows (and it was my first character when 3.0 came out, long before we figured out the system, so there are CERTAINLY better ways to do this).

Monk Level 1 (for flurry of blows)
alignment change...
Cleric of Kord for the buffs like Righteous Might and Divine Power.


Around 10th level or so he solo'd a hydra. Beat it to death with his fists.


Characters like this are a lot of fun.

[Metahuman1]

Hmm... no psionics or ToB makes it a bit tricky, but how about:

Name: Rhipp Tydhe (sailor gimmick) or Ollie Gator (swamp people gimmick)
Race: Goliath (LA +1, buyoff)
1) Battle Dancer 1. Feat: Iron Will. Bonus: Improved Unarmed Strike.
2) Barbarian 1. Mountain Rage racial substitution. Bear Totem: Improved Grab.
3) Fighter 1. Feat: Extra Rage. Bonus: Power Attack.
4) Fighter 2. Bonus: Versatile Unarmed Strike.
5) Ranger 1. Bonus: Track. Favored Enemy: Magical Beasts
6) Leviathan Hunter 1. Feat: Flying Kick.
7) Leviathan Hunter 2.
8) Leviathan Hunter 3. Bonus: Clever Wrestling.
9) Reaping Mauler 1. Feat: Earth's Embrace. Bonus: Improved Grapple, Mobility.

Battle Dancer (Dragon Compendium) gives you Cha bonus to AC (gotta "look purty" for all those promos). You lose out on stunning fist and some related feats, but not a big loss (and of course completely useless when "rasslin' sharktopussies".)

Mountain Rage gives you a non-magical (Ex) way to get large, and Leviathan Hunter gives you the Clever Wrestling feat regardless of your size. Reaping Mauler is still an awful PrC, but not as big of a huge pile of steaming fail.

Takes a while to get it all together, though... ask your DM if you can waive or ignore the "medium size" prereq on Clever Wrestling, and then you can skip the Leviathan Hunter levels.

He didn't say no Tome of Battle did he? I though he just said no Tome of Magic, No Psionics, No Incarnum and no Evil.

[KitTheOdd]

I would suggest looking at goliaths, Powerful Build lets them count as large for many things (grappling specifically mentioned). Half giants get the same racial ability, but due to their psionic leanings probably aren't as good an option.

Also, if ToB is allowed swordsage is an obvious possibility. The Setting Sun throws, while not exactly grappling, seem to fit nicely with the concept.

[Waddacku]

Savage Species has the feats Multigrab and Greater Multigrab for reducing away the penalties for grappling with just the Improved Grab limb, letting you hold multiple opponents down at the same time much easier.
The chain also leads into Rending Constriction, for a bit of extra brutality against a single foe.

[_flint_]

Hmm... no psionics or ToB makes it a bit tricky, but how about:

Name: Rhipp Tydhe (sailor gimmick) or Ollie Gator (swamp people gimmick)


I gotta say, I love those names! ToB is actually on the table, and now I'm looking at something more like a fighter 2/warblade 3 not bothering with reaping mauler

Now, the crushing weight of the mountain stance says it's level is 'warblade 3'.
I'm not too familiar with how the stances in ToB work, does that mean I can take it at 4th level as a warblade or does it mean i would have to wait until 10th?

I also found this perfect feat- battle jump which treats you as one size category larger if you jump down on your opponent from at least 5 feet. Can anyone say pile driver? It's in unnaproachable east

EDIT: So, if I'm reading this correctly it looks like my 4th warblade level would get me 3rd level stances due to the 2 levels of fighter increasing my initiator level by 1.

[Waddacku]

That's how it works, yes. Fighter 2/Warblade 4 has an initiator level of 5, and as such qualifies for 3rd level maneuvers.
Tip: You want Warblade for your first and sixth levels here, and the Fighter dip in between somewhere. If you're starting low, Warblade is a much nicer starting point than Fighter, and it gets you more HP and much more skill points.

[_flint_]

That's how it works, yes. Fighter 2/Warblade 4 has an initiator level of 5, and as such qualifies for 3rd level maneuvers.
Tip: You want Warblade for your first and sixth levels here, and the Fighter dip in between somewhere. If you're starting low, Warblade is a much nicer starting point than Fighter, and it gets you more HP and much more skill points.

Yeah, I'm thinking goliath, then warblade, fighter, fighter, LA buyoff, warblade, warblade, warblade

Know of any prestige classes that would add some showmanship to the build?

[Greenish]

Yeah, I'm thinking goliath, then warblade, fighter, fighter, LA buyoff, warblade, warblade, warblade

Know of any prestige classes that would add some showmanship to the build?Melee isn't exactly blessed with an abundance of good prestige classes, and few can actually improve a warblade.

[_flint_]

That's fine. It isn't really meant to be high OP, just servicable. The warblade is almost entirely for the constriction and small amount of utility

[Darrin]

He didn't say no Tome of Battle did he? I though he just said no Tome of Magic, No Psionics, No Incarnum and no Evil.

Ack, I misread that. In that case, my previous advice (which the OP has already decided against) would be to get Superior Unarmed Strike in there, probably at 3rd level, so you have unarmed strike damage that scales.


I gotta say, I love those names! ToB is actually on the table, and now I'm looking at something more like a fighter 2/warblade 3 not bothering with reaping mauler


Much better than Reaping Mauler.



I also found this perfect feat- battle jump which treats you as one size category larger if you jump down on your opponent from at least 5 feet. Can anyone say pile driver? It's in unnaproachable east


Please be aware that this feat is written very badly, and it's very difficult to tell how the designer intended this feat to be used. You'll want to talk it over with your DM and get a clear idea of how it works and what it does before you take it.

There are two sources of confusion. The first is what action is necessary to trigger the charge. There are a lot of different ways to "fall" on an opponent from above. You can use teleport schticks, Wall Climbing, or really high Jump checks (Leaping Dragon Stance or Leap of the Heavens from PHBII) to get up above your opponent. The kooky part is whatever actions you use to get up above your opponent, Battle Jump turns your fall into a "free" full-round charge. So, increase your weight to 4000 lbs, grab some Boots of Landing or some armor with the Landing property and you may be able to do 20d6 falling object damage on top of your charge/pounce attack.

The second confusing thing is you're given a choice to do double damage or make a trip attack. But if you choose to do double damage, you can also (presumably) make your charge attack a trip, just like you would any other normal attack. Add Improved Trip, and you get a free attack after a successful trip... and get the double damage as well.



EDIT: So, if I'm reading this correctly it looks like my 4th warblade level would get me 3rd level stances due to the 2 levels of fighter increasing my initiator level by 1.

Yep, you've got it. Note that you can also switch stances as a swift action. Start in Leaping Dragon Stance (grab it with Martial Stance if need be) to jump above your opponent, and then before you start your attack routine, switch to Crushing Weight of the Mountain to do your grapple/constrict thing. Note that Leaping Dragon Stance gives you a "+10-foot" bonus on the result of your Jump check, not a +10 on the Jump check itself. This means to jump high enough to trigger Battle Jump, you only need to hit a DC of 4 (11' high jump).

[Gavinfoxx]

Never, ever, ever take Reaping Mauler.

It is a bugged class, in that it makes you worse at grappling than if you didn't take it, and it turns off if you get bigger than Medium... You want to be as large as possible to grapple, and you generally want as heavy armor as possible to grapple... Reaping Mauler helps you escape a grapple, it doesnt actually help you grapple in any way!

[Togo]

Try the Marshal (minature's handbook), and take the arts of war minor aura, to add your chr bonus to your grapple checks.

If you want to be armoured, combine with fighter and take imp unarmed strike, and imp grapple. You could get glamoured mithril full plate, and make it look like a leotard, while still getting armour enchantments and armour crystals.

If you want to unarmoured, combining with monk is an obvious choice. Try simply ignoring wisdom entirely and go with strength and dex and charima for marshal.

Either way, the idea is to take as many manoevre feats as possible (imp trip, imp bull rush etc) for that wrestling ring feel.

The real trick, however, is equipment. An armband of might and gloves of the titan's grip are both reasonably cheap items from the MiC. You may also want to consider 3rd eye surge and brute gloves as cheaper alternatives.

e.g.
A human figher 2 marshal 3 with imp unarmed strike, imp grapple, p attack, imp bull rush and str 16 and chr 16 will have a +14 grapple. If you can get someone to use a enlarge wand on you, and activate your gloves that goes up to +24.

From there you need a suitable p-class, such as drunken master, divine crusader (competition domain) or tactical soldier.

[_flint_]

Try the Marshal (minature's handbook), and take the arts of war minor aura, to add your chr bonus to your grapple checks.


Actually, I'm pretty sure that arts of war does everything BUT grapple :/


Art of War: Bonus on disarm, trip, bull rush, and sunder
attempts.

Still pretty good for a wrestler, but not enough for me to go from dumping charisma to making it 14+

Would punishing stance increase my automatic grapple damage?

[_flint_]

Know of any prestige classes that would add some showmanship to the build?

Found it! Gladiator from sword and fist, it's perfect (if a bit underpowered) Looks like it would synergise well with Choke Hold, maybe I'll find a way to do slashing damage with armour spikes. A lot of tricks in this class and it really matches the flavour nicely

[Darrin]

Found it! Gladiator from sword and fist, it's perfect (if a bit underpowered) Looks like it would synergise well with Choke Hold, maybe I'll find a way to do slashing damage with armour spikes.

Razored Armor, Underdark p. 64 (FR version).

[Waker]

For a decent grappler class, Mantis Shen (Dragon 319) is decent. Has a mix of monk abilities like improving unarmed damage and unarmored bonus as well as overcoming DR (Silver, Cold Iron), plus while shifted your unarmed strikes count as Ghost Touch, meaning you can grapple incorporeal creatures. Don't take the class to it's capstone ability, as it is somewhat underwhelming, but several of them up until then are fun. One fun power is Superior Trip, where you deal damage while tripping your target automatically. Also while shapeshifted, you have Improved Grab, meaning you don't have to waste actions initiating a grapple and you can choose to deal bludgeoning, piercing or slashing damage with your unarmed attacks.