What are the most ridiculous things I could do with a 400 DC epic spell?

[acassatt9]

What are the most ridiculous things I could do with a 400 spellcraft DC epic spell?

I've been looking over the rules, and I realize they don't really anticipate how easy it is to get your spellcraft up the wazoo and/or mitigate infinitely.

I'm not sure what the core infinite mitigation tricks are apart from solar-gating, or epic conjuration to get solars, but that aside...

I feel that epic spells are pretty strong without those tricks as well. The only rule I impose is that I can't use my 400 spellcraft DC epic spell to cast an epic spell with greater than 400 spellcraft DC. That defeats the purpose of the exercise.

With a boundary of 400 DC, come up with ridiculous things I could do with the seeds available. Assume all 400 DC is mitigated to 0, but the spellcraft DC can NOT under any circumstances exceed 400.

[Silvanoshei]

400 DC Spellcraft? You're seriously tinkering with string theory by then, in a scientific comparision. Honestly, you could draw a diagram that allowed "magic streams" of the planet to be accessed. These streams could allow changing any weather in any part of the planet.... like making 1,000 tornado's appear in New York.

The thing with such a high Spellcraft DC, is that it's pretty much up in the air. Depends on what the DM would allow for 200 DC. If 200 allowed you to make solar systems, then 400.... I'd allow that character to make a Big Bang Universe. We're playing god at this point.

[acassatt9]

Calibrate my expectations then. What can I do by RAW that isn't obvious?

[Invader]

Im curious as to how you got a 400 spell craft by raw without cheese.

[Darius Kane]

Im curious as to how you got a 400 spell craft by raw without cheese.
Very Epic game? Or maybe it's just a theoretical question? Note that he said "That defeats the purpose of the exercise.", so I doubt it's for an actual game.

[Zilzmaer]

Also, he said to assume it's mitigated to zero, so the DC can't be higher than 400 before mitigation, and we could assume just a Wizard 21 with one rank in Spellcraft.

That said, you should decide what you want to do, and tell your DM that's what happens. It'll turn out the same, but with a lot less work on your part.

[Darius Kane]

Actually, the caster would need minimum 24 ranks in Spellcraft to meet the requirements for Epic Spellcasting.

A thing you could do with a DC 400 epic spell is to summon a CR 193 outsider for 20 rounds.

[Sith_Happens]

A thing you could do with a DC 400 epic spell is to summon a CR 193 outsider for 20 rounds.

Yup. That's probably by far the way to get the most bang for your buck, considering that monster capabilities seem to scale with CR in a very non-linear fashion.

[Valdis]

Actually, the caster would need minimum 24 ranks in Spellcraft to meet the requirements for Epic Spellcasting.

A thing you could do with a DC 400 epic spell is to summon a CR 193 outsider for 20 rounds.

That would be nothing against my Ogre Slaying Knife +9 !!

[SowZ]

That would be nothing against my Ogre Slaying Knife +9 !!

Well, yeah, but you're still in the tavern.

[Valdis]

Well, yeah, but you're still in the tavern.

Yup, getting drunk and checking out the girls :smallbiggrin:

He could always cast a DC 400 Magic Missle.

[ArcturusV]

Make a spell to make your dinner ready to be consumed without actually having to wait to cook it. One which warps the fabric of time and space to do it, and will breed horrible paradoxes and such.

[SowZ]

Are we assuming the 3 million+ gold piece cost is mitigated or else paid for?

[Chilingsworth]

Make a spell to make your dinner ready to be consumed without actually having to wait to cook it. One which warps the fabric of time and space to do it, and will breed horrible paradoxes and such.

Heh.

In that vein, you could do something like making a trash compactor (http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2063)

Or keep your bacon fresh (http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2056)

[TypoNinja]

A thing you could do with a DC 400 epic spell is to summon a CR 193 outsider for 20 rounds.

That would give a Dragon several hundred HD, and most dragons get an extra 2 caster levels per 3hd(virtual age category), so summon him, and tell him to cast something with a 1000DC spellcraft.

My favorite Epic spell is "Summon McGuffin"

Take your teleport seed, take your divination seed, dial the range all the way up, no save, no SR. Adhoc something to make it pierce magical protections against divinations, and you are set.

[Shred-Bot]

Yup, getting drunk and checking out the girls :smallbiggrin:

He could always cast a DC 400 Magic Missle.

At that stage it would probably be a Magic ICBM.

Also... after rolling to see if you get drunk, DC 400 should be enough for a surefire hangover remedy.

[SowZ]

Turn everything, (animate/inanimate,) within 20,000 feet into Helium with a +20 to resist being dispelled and a +20 to the Save.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Epic divination spell that lets you read the DM's notes?

Ooh, better yet, "Commune with DM." Cast the spell, play 20 questions with the author of reality.

[Douglas]

In one super high epic arena game I played in once, I made a big list of pretty much every spell in the game that would normally be difficult to deal with if my opponents used them. I then made a set of 100' radius Ward spells centered on me that suppressed all of them. It was amazing how often I got to post "sorry, that spell fizzles automatically" in response to my opponent's actions.

400 DC is enough to cover my entire list in one Ward with quite a bit left over.


Adhoc something to make it pierce magical protections against divinations, and you are set.
Ward seed tacked on and set to beat each anti-divination spell should do it.

[Psyren]

Compel a Greater Deity of your choosing to transfer all of its divine ranks, followers and its entire portfolio to you permanently. This is obviously a totally unreasonable request, which adds a mere +10 to the DC. Once the deity has done so, the compulsion ends - but with their divine power under your control, they have no way to undo the effects.

Interestingly, Compel has no HD limit - you could target a kobold, a great wyrm, or Tiamat with the same spell, with only the will save being a barrier between them. Combine with the Dispel seed and you can suppress any magical or supernatural immunity to mind-affecting the target may possess - this should get you past most deities' mental protections, if any.

Now, your biggest problem will be getting the deity within 75 ft. of you - Summoning it to you or Transporting yourself to it will solve that.

[Douglas]

Deities are immune to mind-affecting effects as a freebie just for having Divine Rank, and this immunity is not marked as supernatural, the result of a spell, or in any other way magical.

Greater deities have the further protection of automatically getting a natural 20 every time.

[Cirrylius]

Also... after rolling to see if you get drunk, DC 400 should be enough for a surefire hangover remedy.
Madness. How can you control players if you circumvent hangover rules??

[Shred-Bot]

Turn everything, (animate/inanimate,) within 20,000 feet into Helium with a +20 to resist being dispelled and a +20 to the Save.

Ooooooh... turn all writing within 20,000 feet into explosive runes... Death to the literate!

[Shred-Bot]

Madness. How can you control players if you circumvent hangover rules??

If you're letting them mitigate 400 DC worth of epic down to essentially zero you've already lost control.

[Chilingsworth]

Distribute jelly babies (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfisgGuuUD8) to everyone in the multiverse?

[Talderas]

I'm just going to go out on a limb here and say that you're going to need to adhoc/homebrew some other modifiers. Epic spells basically cry out for it.

Here's some spells that I crafted on my Epic Illusionist. Highest DC is 119.

Perfect Invisibility
SEED: Conceal - +17
Any Action - +4
SEED: Conceal - +17
Scrying Defense - +6
SEED: Conceal - +17
Silence - +0
Suppressable - +4
Caster Level +30 - +60
School Seed - -5
10 minute Cast - -18
Total DC : 102

This is a 20 hour duration invisibility buff. It doesn't break when you take an action. It is resistant to scrying so when using true seeing you need to make an opposed caster level check in order to beat the invisibility as well as make an opposed check when using blindsight/blindsense to spot the person under the effect. This spell REQUIRES the caster to not use spells or use silent spell for all his spells (hello Shadowcraft Mage). That makes the character undetectable to sound-based detection methods (so tremorsense is fooled). Flavored with a +30 caster level to basically make it impossible for any foe your level to spot you.

Increasing this by another 298 DC would pretty much mean your effective caster level for the spell would be around +179 or you could tack on other effects. However, the idea that something basically needs to be well over 150 levels higher than you to see you without some sort of special ability specifically to oppose a spell like that is pretty funny.

Say hello to my Little Friend, the Shadow Plane, because he's coming here to meet you.
SEED: Transform : +21
Mimic Shadow Plane : +10
Convert to 20ft Radius : +10
No Verbal component : +2
Standard Action Cast Time : +20
Increase Area by 1400% : +56
Total DC : 119

This is a spell that lasts 20 hours and has an effective area of a 300ft radius sphere. The spell itself alters the planar traits of the region affected by the spell to suppress the native traits and apply the traits of the Shadow Plane in the area. Visibily, the area within the sphere will lose a lot of its vibrant coloration and shadows won't be static but instead sway about. Mechanically, all spells with the Shadow descriptor are maximized without taking a higher level spell slot and all Shadow Evocation/Conjuration spells are 10% more potent when cast within the area.

Increasing the spellcraft DC by 281 would mean I would just increase the area. Reduce the DC down to 80 and you can make the effect permanent. A 80 DC would be an area of 100ft radius rather than 300ft if I'm doing my math correctly. You could also ramp up the area by another 100% 70 more times so you would have a total size increase of 8400%. That's about a 1700ft radius sphere.

[Psyren]

Deities are immune to mind-affecting effects as a freebie just for having Divine Rank, and this immunity is not marked as supernatural, the result of a spell, or in any other way magical.

Greater deities have the further protection of automatically getting a natural 20 every time.

Ah, forgot that detail. Another method is to Transform into a deity, as you can become specific individuals. You'll have to boost your HD first though, and I forget which seed helps with that (Life?)

[LTwerewolf]

Can give yourself a +63 weapon

[Talderas]

Oh, also probably worth noting that with that perfect invisibility spell, the best way to foil it is just use a spot check. A DC 50 lets you pinpoint the location of an invisible creature but it retains concealment which is enough for an illusionist to attempt a hide check with HiPS.

So I believe we adhoced the rule so that if you made a spot vs hide check of my illusionist....

Hide vs Spot Opposed Check with an invisible creature
20 - Notice the presence of the invisible creature if he is moving around or otherwise active.
30 - Notice the presence of the invisible creature.
40 - Pinpoint the square the invisible creature occupies but still grants concealment if he is moving or otherwise active.
50 - Pinpoint the square of the invisible creature but still grants concealment.
Those are more or less derived from the DCs included in the ELH.

[Krobar]

I wonder how many Greater Shadows you could get in a Bag of Holding with a spell like that. You know, for emergencies.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I wonder how many Greater Shadows you could get in a Bag of Holding with a spell like that. You know, for emergencies.

All of them?

[Morcleon]

Using the LEoF, there are two other epic spell seeds there: mythal and shadow.

The first can be used to get at-will wish, miracle and reality revision, as well as being able to disallow all spells/powers and S/PLAs within the field (100' radius base). You can also use it to get any other spells/powers you want at-will, as a standard action, with no material or XP costs.

The second can be used to make shadow-creatures. With a DC 400 (and the x5 for permanent), you can get a CR 32 creature. Everytime you cast it. And it is completely under your control.

[Slipperychicken]

Summon yourself Permanently, and be completely subject to your own will. That way, you can make yourself cast as many Epic spells as you want! Exchange all your possessions as payment to yourself.

Time Dragons. Ride one for the lulz.

More seriously, isn't Asmodeus like CR 30? Just summon up the whole cosmology and make them do your dirty, dirty laundry.

[SowZ]

See, here is the thing about trying to use epic spells on epic, (deific,) creatures is that they have epic spellcasting, too. So, presumably, they have a specific way to counter anything you can think of.

[Marnath]

You could seal the portal to the far realms which sits at the bottom of the abyss. Tear the other outer planes from their moorings and cast them outside the cosmology of your campaign too, while you're at it.

[Zubrowka74]

Make a spell that transforms all the target's levels to one of truenamer ? Or monk ?

[Talderas]

You could seal the portal to the far realms which sits at the bottom of the abyss. Tear the other outer planes from their moorings and cast them outside the cosmology of your campaign too, while you're at it.

It might sound like those are the sort of effects you could do, but the mechanic crunch of spell making makes it particularly troublesome for wide area spells. The ELH does have sample epic spells along with their comparative spellcraft DCs.

For 419 you can cast Vengeful Gaze of God. 305d6 (Fortitude Half) damage and 200d6 points of backlash. The spell requires you to have 100HD and without the backlash has a spellcraft check of 619.

For 319 you can cast Dire Winter which has a 1000ft emanation from the target of the spell. It deals 2d6 points of damage per round against unprotected creatures and lasts 20 hours. It also requires 10,000xp to cast which mitigates 100 from the spellcraft DC so the effects are 419.

Any epic spell which effects a large are is going to be expensive. Something which affects an entire plane (demiplanes ignored) would be a very large ad hoc modifier you need to come up with or you need to have an area large enough to affect the full physical plane. Each doubling of the area is a +4 increase in spellcraft and the base area is usually very small.

[Sith_Happens]

It might sound like those are the sort of effects you could do, but the mechanic crunch of spell making makes it particularly troublesome for wide area spells. The ELH does have sample epic spells along with their comparative spellcraft DCs.

For 419 you can cast Vengeful Gaze of God. 305d6 (Fortitude Half) damage and 200d6 points of backlash. The spell requires you to have 100HD and without the backlash has a spellcraft check of 619.

For 319 you can cast Dire Winter which has a 1000ft emanation from the target of the spell. It deals 2d6 points of damage per round against unprotected creatures and lasts 20 hours. It also requires 10,000xp to cast which mitigates 100 from the spellcraft DC so the effects are 419.

Any epic spell which effects a large are is going to be expensive. Something which affects an entire plane (demiplanes ignored) would be a very large ad hoc modifier you need to come up with or you need to have an area large enough to affect the full physical plane. Each doubling of the area is a +4 increase in spellcraft and the base area is usually very small.

If you're willing to wait 10 minutes for the spell to take effect, you can use Energy (weather) as the base seed for a base radius of two miles.

[Talderas]

If you're willing to wait 10 minutes for the spell to take effect, you can use Energy (weather) as the base seed for a base radius of two miles.

Eh. That's highly debatable. Dire Winter uses the energy seed. In order for the control weather seed to do the damage Dire Winter uses it would still need the energy seed. Then you would need to argue that the base seed is the weather seed (so base area is 2 miles) rather than the energy seed (base of 20ft).

Even with a 2 mile base radius you're still talking about a spell that only impacts a fraction of the plane you're on....

[koboldish]

HADOKEN!!!!!!!!

Or a light spell, when it shines in from the hole you just blew in the very fabric of reality. Twice.

[jaynus006]

Use a few non epic tricks to create a tiny comfortable pocket dimension, ensure you never have to eat/drink again and fail the will save of a delude spell to convince yourself your a god in your own world. Then waste away comfortably in a dream where you have unlimited control and power.

[TuggyNE]

Use a few non epic tricks to create a tiny comfortable pocket dimension, ensure you never have to eat/drink again and fail the will save of a delude spell to convince yourself your a god in your own world. Then waste away comfortably in a dream where you have unlimited control and power.

But... that's not epic at all.

It's not even as impressive as Dream of Metal.