[PF+3.X] Caster learning from fighters

[Darius Kane]

What useful lessons and tips could fairly mundane fighters (not Fighters) teach a battle caster in training? There have to be some insights that a (fairly) mundane (but high level) combatant could share with a caster that is going to be doing a lot of fighting.

[satorian]

What do you mean? Is this a roleplaying thing? If so, then really anything a fighting person might know about fighting which is, um, anything fighting related?

If you mean useful skills that have game mechanical advantage, then still tons of things:

1) "This is what a feint looks like. If a guy does this, he is actually going to attack this way." (caster would add points in Sense Motive next level).
2) "Here are some useful fighting tips that, if you practice, will keep you alive." (caster takes pretty much any relevant combat feat with his next feat slot, which could be anything from Improved Initiative, to Precise Shot, to Dodge or Toughness, etc.)
3) "You want to train with me for a while? Sure, let me show you what I know." (Caster takes a level of fighter in preparation for Abjurant Champion entry).

[ericgrau]

Shooting from cover (+4 AC), from an arrow slit (+8 AC), while kneeling (+2 ranged AC, -2 melee AC), or while prone (+4 ranged AC, -4 melee AC) for a ray caster.
Organizing summons to attack from a flank or high ground

Neither requires a build change though. That would involve feats and levels, as already mentioned.

[Darius Kane]

What do you mean? Is this a roleplaying thing?
Yes.


If so, then really anything a fighting person might know about fighting which is, um, anything fighting related?
Uh, yeah. I'm asking about good examples.

[satorian]

Well, in that case it would really depend on what, in your game, fighters are expected to know about tactics that casters are not. I've never played in a game where a caster wouldn't be assumed to know about cover rules, but if he doesn't in your game, Mr. Fighty sure should tell him. Does the caster know to step back 5' before casting in front of someone? Does he know to seek high ground? Seek cover? That his summons can be used to flank? That summoning Fine creatures would allow them to harry a giant from within its square? Does he know that being slippery (Grease) is a good way out of a grapple?

The reason I was confused is that in games I've seen, a caster would know this stuff just by virtue of being an adventurer. If that is not the case in your game, then having the fighter essentially read the How Combat Works section of the SRD to the caster would be helpful.

Sorry if I sound snide. I don't mean to. But what knowledge gaps could be filled in really depend on what knowledge gaps there are, and we don't know what those gaps are in your game.

[Darius Kane]

Um... as I said, the caster is in training. That means he has no such knowledge yet. That's why I'm asking.
And I know there are rules like cover, flanking, 5-ft. steps, etc. and it's true that fighters could teach the caster about them. But I was hoping for something beyond that, like optimal AoE/BFC placement for example.

[ericgrau]

Ya I figured. Not good to assume that everybody knows it all yet. I've had a cruel DM who enforces our mistakes at levels 1-3 saying that the green character would make the mistake too.

Wizards are the primary source when it comes to area of effect spells though. Handling multiple foes is perhaps the biggest thing they do. Even for ones that do damage the best options are spells like fireball and chain lightning. Way back in Chainmail, before D&D even, the wizard was based on the catapult (fireball) and the cannon (lightning bolt). So it's more like a wizard would help out a siege engineer. Or I suppose a well experienced siege engineer could teach a new wizard how much to aim away from friendly targets to get your mark without killing allies... or how many allies are an acceptable risk to hit more enemies.

As for a fighter helping a wizard cast, let's see. There's precise shot as mentioned. He could help some divinations to find warriors like locate object: "We still can't find the orc. You tried to find the nearest axe and now we're standing in the armory. Try looking for the nearest whetstone. Everyone needs to sharpen their blade." There are a couple sword based and grappling based spells. "Don't just squeeze. Twist his arm behind his shoulder and he won't be able to break free as easily."