What's going on with monster skill points?

[Frathe]

I can't figure out what's up with the SRD cat (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/cat.htm). Why do they have +16 to Hide? I get that they have +8 in tall grass, +2 from Stealth, and +2 Dex modifier, but that only adds up to +12. The only thing I can figure out is if the bonus from tall grass somehow stacks with instead of replacing the racial bonus, which is sure not what it says.

I'm also not sure what's going on with the SRD sample elf warrior (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/elf.htm). Counting the racial bonuses to Listen, Search and Spot, it doesn't appear to be spending all of its skill points (it should be getting eight) unless I'm missing something.

[Harugami]

as a small category creature you get natural +4 to stealth with your ac and attack bonuses as tiny you get plus 8 to stealth

[Frathe]

Oh, thank you. That explains it.

Edit: But I'm still not sure what's going on with the elf.

[Harugami]

yeah sometimes the templates don't make sense when you ignore general things like size modifiers. I had a hell of a time trying to figure out something around that with a tiny sized rogue having natural 20 to stealth at lvl 4

[Douglas]

What's going on with the Elf is that all four skills are cross class. As a Warrior with 10 int, he gets a grand total of 8 skill points at level 1. He puts 2 of those into each of Hide, Listen, Search, and Spot, for 1 rank in each skill. For Hide, remember he gets -1 from armor check penalty for his studded leather. For the rest, 1 rank plus ability score and racial match up.

On second thought, he should actually be getting another -1 on Hide for the shield, so that number either assumes he's got the shield stowed or is wrong.

[Frathe]

Thank you! I completely forgot about cross-class skills. Aagh, this is complicated.

Edit: Now that I remember cross-class skills, I'm confused about the sample dwarf warrior (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dwarf.htm). It has +2 in both Listen and Spot, both cross-class skills, but has a Wisdom modifier of -1, so it would have to gain 3 ranks in each, which would mean gaining six ranks total, which would mean spending twelve skill points (because they're cross-class skills). But a first level Warrior of Intelligence 10 would only get eight skill points.

[Douglas]

That one looks like a straight up mistake. Someone forgot the wisdom penalty, maybe?

[Eugenides]

Firstly, if you're trying to puzzle out the MM, this will be incredibly useful: Ur-Priest's Guide. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207928)


Secondly, keep in mind that the authors frequently made mistakes in direct violation of their rules in stat blocks.

[Frathe]

Firstly, if you're trying to puzzle out the MM, this will be incredibly useful: Ur-Priest's Guide. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207928)


Already got it bookmarked! But I coulda checked it in this case.

[Phelix-Mu]

What's going on with the Elf is that all four skills are cross class. As a Warrior with 10 int, he gets a grand total of 8 skill points at level 1. He puts 2 of those into each of Hide, Listen, Search, and Spot, for 1 rank in each skill. For Hide, remember he gets -1 from armor check penalty for his studded leather. For the rest, 1 rank plus ability score and racial match up.


And this is precisely the reason why I houserule that, if your character's race is good at something (gets a bonus to the skill checks), then that skill is always a class skill for you. It's bizarre to suggest that elven warrior need to dump almost all their skill points into detection skills to have decent checks. An elven warrior should have a better Spot check than a human rogue with equal skill points devoted to it, all other things being equal.

This has been my humble opinion speaking.