How is IWA better than WA?

[Magnera]

How is Improved Whirlwind Attack better than Whirlwind attack?

Is the only difference between these two the standard action vs full round action? Heck, if you have a big reach then you can probably attack more targets anyway with Whirlwind Attack. If you use the Improved Whirlwind Attack then you even take a -4 to hit!

Someone tell me how IWA is better than WA.

[The Glyphstone]

It's the only way I can see to get 5+ attacks before Haste/TWF/etc., assuming you're at least...level 30.....

yeah....

[Flickerdart]

There are two Improved Whirldwind Attacks. The old one from the ELH is 3.0 material and overruled by the new one (Dragon 343) which lets you make your iteratives as normal after you Whirlwind. I'm not sure what you are reading to find a -4 penalty.

[Magnera]

I got it from here (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Improved_Whirlwind_Attack).

[Eldariel]

There are two Improved Whirldwind Attacks. The old one from the ELH is 3.0 material and overruled by the new one (Dragon 343) which lets you make your iteratives as normal after you Whirlwind. I'm not sure what you are reading to find a -4 penalty.

It's um, in the late AD&D version of the ability I recall. Improved Whirlwind didn't suffer the penalties while Whirlwind did.

[thethird]

I got it from here (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Improved_Whirlwind_Attack).

dandwiki isn't a trustworthy source at all.

[Venusaur]

dandwiki isn't a trustworthy source at all.

Although that is true, the feat has the exact same text here. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm)

[Magnera]

dandwiki isn't a trustworthy source at all.

Actually, as long as you use the SRD section its just fine. I only linked it cause it was in my browser at the time.

[thethird]

True.

Then it is better due to it requiring a standard action instead of a full attack action. Does that answer the question?

[Magnera]

I guess, but its also worse because you might not beable to attack as many times as if you were to just do WA.

[nedz]

Basically you get your iterative attacks at -4/-4/-4/-4 rather than 0/-5/-10/-15 — and as a standard action (Assuming BAB 20). Also you can't target all of your attacks at one individual — which is not so good tactically.

This would allow you to move, or use a move action, and then have what amounts to a full attack.

You could also do a Spring Attack into IWA — you already have the feats — for some hit and run hilarity.

With WA you can only get a 5' step — though you can target more opponents.

The 3.0 version was much better — mainly because Haste gave you an extra Std action — so you got to do this twice.

[Greenish]

You could also do a Spring Attack into IWA — you already have the feats — for some hit and run hilarity.Spring Attack doesn't allow for standard actions.

[TuggyNE]

As Glyphstone mentioned, it scales with epic BAB, which means you slowly gain extra pseudo-iteratives. That's something, anyway. You also get a move action available. That's also something.

But neither of these are necessarily epic-quality, not even together.

I was going to do an analysis of how a flat -4 to all is better than iterative penalties, but then I remembered that Whirlwind Attack gives you -0 to all, and decided to cry myself to sleep instead.

[nedz]

Spring Attack doesn't allow for standard actions.

OK — I'd forgotten that.