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bobthe6th
2013-02-03, 11:16 PM
So I made a class over on the min max boards, and would like to get some more feedback. It is part of the improved monster class project, taking creatures and making them into classes in the style of savage species.

Titan

HD:d8
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special
1|+1|+0|+0|+2|Superior Body, Powerful Build, God Magic, Change Shape
2|+2|+0|+0|+3|Great Hammer +1 Str
3|+3|+1|+1|+3|Skilled Destruction, Divine Spark
4|+4|+1|+1|+4|Timeless Skin, Growth
5|+5|+1|+1|+4|Levitation, Summon Chaos
6|+6|+2|+2|+5|Chose a Side +1 Str
7|+7|+2|+2|+5|Mountain Hammer, Divine Flame
8|+8|+2|+2|+6|Growth +1 Str +1 Cha
9|+9|+3|+3|+6|Well of Life, Greater Destruction
10|+10|+3|+3|+7|Rebuff the Unwanted +1 Str +1 Cha
11|+11|+3|+3|+7|Divine Lightning +1 Cha
12|+12|+4|+4|+8|Growth +1 Str +1 Cha
13|+13|+4|+4|+8|+1 Str +1 Cha +1 Con
14|+14|+4|+4|+9|Earth Shattering Hammer +1Str
15|+15|+5|+5|+9|Divine Conflagration
16|+16|+5|+5|+10|Growth +1 Str +1 Cha
17|+17|+5|+5|+10|Meteor swarm
18|+18|+6|+6|+11|+1 Str +1 Cha +1 Con
19|+19|+6|+6|+11|Divine destruction
20|+20|+6|+6|+12|Endless Life +1 Str +1 Cha +1 Con
21|+20|+6|+6|+12|True arcana +1 Str +1 Cha +1 Con
[/table]

Skills:2+int modifier per level, quadruple at 1st level, class skills are Concentration (con), Diplomacy Intimidate(Cha), Knowledge (any) (int), Listen (wis), Perform(Cha), Sense Motive(Wis), Spellcraft (int), Spot (wis), and Survival (wis).

Proficiencies: Simple weapons, Warhammer and one martial weapons of it's choice, slam attacks, and all kinds of armor(but not shields).

Features:

superior body:The titan loses all other racial bonus and gains outsider traits (basically darkvision 60 foot). It is a medium sized outsider with base speed 30 foot. It has two natural slam attacks doing 1d4+Str each.
They gain a natural armor bonus to AC equal to half their constitution modifier.

Powerful Build: At first level, a titan gains Powerful Build. The physical stature of titans lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger. Whenever the titan is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the titan is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A titan is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A titan can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category.

God Magic(Sp):The titan is a creature of godlike power, and it has access to several spell-like abilities. The caster level for the spell-like abilities is equal to the titan’s HD, and the save DC for them is 10 + ½ HD + Cha modifier. Some of these spells will have special modifications listed in parenthesis.

Additionally, titans are in tune with magic as a whole. They learn to use some useful spells at the levels indicated below.


1:Charm person(upgrades to charm monster at 7th class level in titan) 1 day/2HD, Silent image(upgrades to minor image at third, Major image at fifth, and Persistent image at seventh class level in titan) 1 day/HD

3:Hold person(upgrades to Hold monster at 10th class level in titan) 1 day/2HD

5: Invisibility and invisibility purge 1 day/HD, dispel magic (upgrades to Greater dispel magic at 10 HD) 1 day/2HD

11:Plane shift(Upgrades to Gate at 17th class level in titan(Gate is planer travel portion only) 1 day/2HD

13:Ethereal Jaunt(upgrades to Etherealnes at 19th level) 1 day/ 5HD

15:Maze 1 day/5 HD


Change Shape(Su): As the srd ability. A Titan can assume the form of any Small or Medium humanoid and back 1/day per HD as a standard action. It retains powerful build in these forms.

Ability Score Increase: The Titan gains +1 to
Str at levels 2, 6, 8, 10, 12, 13, 14, 16, 18, 20, 21
Con at levels 13, 18, 20, 21
Cha at levels 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, 16, 18, 20, 21

For a total of +10 Str, +3 Con, +8 Cha at level 20, and +11 Str, +4 Con, +9 Cha at level 21

Great hammer: No one really knows why or how Titans create and wield such massive hammers, but it is a part of their culture.

At 2nd level, the titan can spend 24 hours creating a Warhammer one size category larger than he would normally be able to wield from an undisclosed location.

Its stats are like a regular warhammer one size category larger than he would normally be able to wield, but it gains an enchantment bonus of +1 for every 2HD of the titan. It can only have a +5 enchantment bonus to attacks and damage, but enchantment points can be spent to get special abilities like flaming. The titan can change his Great hammer properties with 8 hours of hard work. Those bonus apply only to the titan that created it, and he can only have one such weapon at a time.

When the titan changes size, his Great hammer freely changes size to be one larger then he could wield as his new size.

Skilled destruction(Ex): At third level, the Titan gets the improved sunder feat, even if he dosn't qualify for it. Additionally, when he uses the sunder combat option, he can chose to just crack an object when he would destroy it. This renders it unusable until someone spends an hour fixing it(spending an hour just working on the item, but not requiring any sort of skill check), or it is healed at least one HP through magic.
Finally, when a titan successfully cracks an item, he can make a free attack on the items wielder.

Divine spark(Su): At third level, the titan starts to tap their incredible power to create powerful energies. Once per round as a swift action, the titan can fire a ray of electrical energy or a small burst of flame at any target within 30ft+5ft 2HD. The ray is a touch attack, and if it hits it deals 1d6 points of electrical damage per 3 HD of the titan. The fire forces the target to make a reflex save(DC 10+1/2 HD+Cha modifire) or take 1d6 points of fire damage per 3HD.

Timeless Skin(Ex): At 4th level the titan gains DR/lawful equal to half its HD, and SR equal to 11+HD. At 6 HD the DR improves to DR/lawful and magic. It may rise or lower its SR at any time as a free action even if it isn't its turn.

Growth(Ex): At fourth level, the titan finishes growing to large size but loses Powerful Build. His AC, bonus to hit, slam damage, grapple and skills change accordingly, but he doesn't get any ability score bonus or penalties. His base movement speed increases by 10' (This movement boost occurs again at 12HD as the giant increases in size again).

The Titan continues to grow throughout his life:
At 8HD, the Titan reacquires Powerful Build, granting partial benefits of Huge size.
At 12HD, the Titan grows to Huge size and loses Powerful Build.
At 16HD, the Titan reacquires Powerful Build, granting partial benefits of Gargantuan size.

Levitation(Sp): At fifth level, the Titan has learned to bring gravity under his sway. the Titan gains a fly speed equal to his normal movement speed with good maneuverability
At tenth level, the Titan's fly speed maneuverability increase to perfect.

Summon Chaos(Sp): At 5th level, the titan can use Summon Nature's Ally III as a SLA as a standard action 1/day per HD.

For every two more levels on this class, the Titan can use the next level of Summon Nature's Ally (IV at 7th level, V at 9th level, ect).

Chose a Side: At sixth level, a Titan has matured enough to chose his morality. Will he be a tyrant, using his power for his personal gain? Or will he be a liberator, fighting oppression as well as he can?

At 6th level, a titan gains an ability based on his alinement.

Night terror(Su): A evil titan gains an aura of cloying darkness. This is a 10ft radius aura that can be turned on or off as a free action. The area is considered to be under the effects of the deeper darkness spell, with a spell level equal to ½ the Titans HD. All good creatures within the darkness must make a will save each round with a DC of 10+1/2 the titans HD+ the titans Cha modifier or be sickened until their next turn.

Light Bringer(Su): A good titan gains an aura of radiance. This is a 10ft radius aura that can be turned on or off as a free action. The area is considered to be under the effects of the daylight spell, with a spell level equal to ½ the Titans HD. All evil creatures within the light must make a will save each round with a DC of 10+1/2 the titans HD+ the titans Cha modifier or be sickened until their next turn.

A neutral titan can chose which ability they gain. If the titan ever changes alinement they gain the appropriate ability. So a evil titan becomes good he loses Night terror and gains Light Bringer.

Mountain hammer(Ex): A titan is skilled at breaking things. At seventh level, his Great hammer ignores hardness and the DR of a target, except DR/- which he ignores half of.

Divine flame(Su): At Seventh level, the titan Gains a deeper understanding of their power. Their abilities gained from divine spark improve. They both now deal 1d6 damage/2HD of the Titan. The electrical ray can now arc to a second target within normal range, using the same attack roll as the first ray, and if it hits dealing the same damage it dealt to the initial target. The blast of flames now can target two adjacent five foot squares instead of a specific target.

Well of life(Su): A titan is a great font of vitality, and at ninth level he can tap his reserves of positive energy. He can heal up to his HDx(HD/4)xCha modifier HP per day with a touch as a standard action. He can spread the ability out over several uses, using as much or as little healing with each as he wishes.
This healing is caused by positive energy, so it deals damage equal to what it would normally heal to undead.

Greater Destruction(Ex): At ninth level the titan gets better at damaging the inanimate. He deals double damage against inanimate objects and can deal critical hits to constructs and undead with his great hammer.

He also can now crush force effects. He may strike a force effect in melee range with his great hammer once per round to generate a Greater dispel magic effect with a caster level equal to his HD.

Rebuff the Unwanted(Su): At tenth level the titans alinement based powers expand. His aura increase to 30ft. Additionally as a standard action, he can create a pulse of alinement based energy within his aura of light or darkness. This pulse deals 1d6/2HD damage to all creatures that would normally be affected by the auras sickening effect.

Divine Lighting(Su): At eleventh level, the titan gains a yet deeper understanding of their power. Their abilities gained from divine spark improve. They both now deal 1d6 damage/2HD of the Titan, plus the titans Charisma modifier. Additionally, both of these abilities now deal half unpreventable divine damage. The electrical ray can now arc to up to four additional targets within normal range, using the same attack roll as the first ray, and if it hits dealing the same damage it dealt to the initial target. The blast of flames now can target four adjacent five foot squares instead of a specific target.

Earth Shattering Hammer(Ex): At fourteenth level the titan is able to swing his hammer with impossible power. He gains several abilities based on this. He is unable to use any of these abilities if he is exhausted.

Shatter the Earth: The titan can produce an earthquake effect as two full round actions. The effect is centered on himself, though the titan is immune to the effects. Debris will leave him miraculously untouched, and fissures will leave him unscathed. Still, the titan is stunned by the colossal release of power. He is dazed for one round after using this ability, and fatigued for one minute. If he is already fatigued he becomes exhausted for one minute instead.

Shatter the Walls: The titan can produce a disintegrate effect against inanimate objects as part of a normal melee attack. This powerful strike leaves the titan fatigued for three rounds. If he is already fatigued then he instead becomes exhausted for the same duration.

Divine conflagration(Su): At fifteenth level, the titan gains a near total understanding of their power. Their abilities gained from divine spark improve. Three times per day they can chose to increase the damage from either of their abilities to (1d6/HD)+charisma modifier. The electrical ray can now arc to up to eight additional targets within normal range, using the same attack roll as the first ray, and if it hits dealing the same damage it dealt to the initial target. The blast of flames now can target nine adjacent five foot squares instead of a specific target.

Meteor Swarm(Sp): At seventeenth level, the Titan can call forth unbelievable amounts of destructible. As the spell, except half the fire damage is irresistible divine damage, and all targets that fail or do not get a reflex save against the fire damage from a burst must make a Fortitude save(same DC, or applies automatically if the target didn't get a reflex save) or be thrown to the closest square outside the spells area of affect and be knocked prone. A titan may use this 1 day/ 4HD

Divine Destruction(Su): At nineteenth level, the titan gains total understanding of their power. Their abilities gained from divine spark improve. They both now deal 1d8 damage/2HD of the Titan, plus the titans Charisma modifier. Three times per day they can chose to increase the damage from either of their abilities to (1d8/HD)+charisma modifier. The electrical ray can now arc to up to sixteen additional targets within normal range, using the same attack roll as the first ray, and if it hits dealing the same damage it dealt to the initial target. The blast of flames now can target sixteen adjacent five foot squares instead of a specific target.

Endless Life(Ex): At twentieth level, a titan is a proper adult. The titan will no longer die of old age. He stops aging physically, but will keep accruing mental bonuses as he ages, considered to increase an age category once per one hundred years after he became an adult.

True Arcana(Sp): At 21 level a titan starts to become an elder titan.
All the SLAs he gained through titan class levels become at will, except for etherealness, gate, maze, Summon chaos, and meteor swarm. The titan can instead use plane shift and ethereal jaunt at will. Finally the effects of chaos are enhanced, and continue to grow.
It now summons 2x as many creatures as it would normally summon with each use of the ability, x2 that for each 2HD it has above 21.



comments
So there is the great “original” giant, the Titan! Looking at the original monster, he seemed to be a small adventuring party wrapped into one creature. He had blasting as a swift action, some heavy attacks, some healing, and enough utility to play around at the upper levels of the game. I tried to keep this version a little weaker in some areas, and stronger in others.

bobthe6th
2013-02-08, 04:59 PM
Here, I formated the class. anyone got an opinion?

nonsi
2013-02-09, 01:27 AM
It seems decent, but other than a gestalt Warforged Artificer-Druid I can't really imagine one actually managing to juggle all the tools for posing a one-man-party, so I don't see how you can nail that goal (I wouldn't even aim at that direction).

Would I say yes if invited play one - guess I'd give it a try.

Note that Change Shape doesn't specify duration.

bobthe6th
2013-02-09, 12:27 PM
It isn't meant to be a full group. The goals are T3 balance point and letting you play a full titan at level 21. The Titan itself had a ton of random SLAs and abilities... so I converted them to normal abilities and spread them out over 21 levels. In light of that, any other comments?

The lack of a duration is intentional, it is until you want to change back. The monster had a matching ability, but fully at will.

bobthe6th
2013-02-12, 10:46 PM
Ok, bump because I don't want this to die. Really any thoughts?

JeminiZero
2013-02-13, 08:24 AM
So what tier were you aiming for? This strikes me as gamebreakingly powerful, but lacking versatility in some aspects. So high Tier 2.

Great Hammer needs some clarification on whether it stacks with powerful build. E.g. Does a level 2 Medium Sized Titan with Powerful Build wield a Large or Huge Greathammer?

Summon Chaos: You might want to clarify how long it takes to activate this ability: is it 1 round action as per SNA, or a standard action? This is because the PHB and MM have differing rules on how long SLAs take to activate. PHB says same casting time as original spell, while MM says always a standard action unless specified.

bobthe6th
2013-02-13, 01:47 PM
I would like to keep it under game breaking... but over normal mundane. Like.a duskblade. Sacrificing a spell list for usfull SLAs and some solid martial abilaties. Also, I want it to be a titan at level 21. What in particular did you find broken?

Stacks, so you are two handing a huge mace at level 1. It deals 1d12 at level 1, with a x2 crit.

It specifies it as a standard in the class. Though I could see reason to make it a 1 round action. I was trying to keep most of the casting as off sides to melee.

JeminiZero
2013-02-15, 08:50 PM
I would like to keep it under game breaking... but over normal mundane. Like.a duskblade. Sacrificing a spell list for usfull SLAs and some solid martial abilaties.

Right now it feels more like a Druid: Able to melee with the best of them (except that since his abilities are mostly Ex, the Titan still works in an AMF), having a truckload of summons (see below), and a bunch of other utilities (flight, invis, charm, planar travel etc) and battlefield control (Meteor Swarm, Maze). But not having ALL the utilities (no divinations) or battlefield controls, so high tier 2 rather than fully versatile tier 1.


Also, I want it to be a titan at level 21. What in particular did you find broken?

The SNA 1/HD strikes me as particularly strong. Especially if its a standard action. Even the original Titan can only throw it out 3/day.

At level 20, assuming 4 encounters/day, this guy can just spend the first 5 rounds of each encounter summoning non-stop, BEFORE wading into melee. He could throw out, say 1d3 (average 2) Greater Storm Elementals. Each one can use Thunder and Lightning for 12d6 Sonic, and 24d6 Lightning damage... that HEALS the other Greater Storm Elementals he has already summoned... Then they each spam 12d4 Shock to fry the enemy, or to heal one another, if the the enemy is lightning resistant or they get too badly hurt. At the end of 5 rounds, he would have summoned an average of 10 storm elementals running around, having shot out a total of 120d6 sonic damage, and 240d6 Lightning,

Since they perform this attack during the first round, it matters less if they are subsequently killed or dispelled. And if they are NOT killed or dispelled, he now has 10 Storm Elementals running around doing 120d4 shock damage each round. That is a lot of brute force.

bobthe6th
2013-02-15, 09:54 PM
I do note that all the utility is spread over 20 levels... and is mostly counter measures. Like meteo comes in at 17, and maze comes in at 15. Though the aura of darkness or light does give some BFC, he is not rocking it like a full caster.

Yeah... problem with the Titan, it was a compressed adventuring party masquerading as a single giant. Though I do note the titan itself lacks easy ways to break the action economy. So yes it can spam SNA at later levels, it is giving up a portion of a turn that it could spend hitting things.

ah yeah... forgot about broken summons. Wow, looking at it the list sucks at higher levels. Would limiting the list to animals or magical beasts(possibly sladdi), then expanding the upper levels help? Could probably just advance some dire creatures HD, or start adding templates. Then limit the use to 1/day/3HD, for 6 uses pre epic? So it becomes a limited use to summon some flat tanks like astral construct, instead of a quick way to get SLAs and area damage.

Just to Browse
2013-02-15, 10:34 PM
Right now it feels more like a Druid: Able to melee with the best of them (except that since his abilities are mostly Ex, the Titan still works in an AMF), having a truckload of summons (see below), and a bunch of other utilities (flight, invis, charm, planar travel etc) and battlefield control (Meteor Swarm, Maze). But not having ALL the utilities (no divinations) or battlefield controls, so high tier 2 rather than fully versatile tier 1.I agree with this. I think this is tier 2.


The SNA 1/HD strikes me as particularly strong. Especially if its a standard action. Even the original Titan can only throw it out 3/day.

At level 20, assuming 4 encounters/day, this guy can just spend the first 5 rounds of each encounter summoning non-stop, BEFORE wading into melee. He could throw out, say 1d3 (average 2) Greater Storm Elementals. Each one can use Thunder and Lightning for 12d6 Sonic, and 24d6 Lightning damage... that HEALS the other Greater Storm Elementals he has already summoned... Then they each spam 12d4 Shock to fry the enemy, or to heal one another, if the the enemy is lightning resistant or they get too badly hurt. At the end of 5 rounds, he would have summoned an average of 10 storm elementals running around, having shot out a total of 120d6 sonic damage, and 240d6 Lightning,

Since they perform this attack during the first round, it matters less if they are subsequently killed or dispelled. And if they are NOT killed or dispelled, he now has 10 Storm Elementals running around doing 120d4 shock damage each round. That is a lot of brute force.

You just described why casting Summon Nature's Ally for five rounds is a bad thing, not why the titan is overpowered. I mean, at level 20 with a full minute to prepare, any other tier 2 class is pretty much going to win a fight and roll opposition. Storm elementals aren't even that good because they disappear after 20 rounds and their damage is resisted by basically all outsiders.

the real problem is the amount of utility the titan gets paired with their strong damage output, which I think balances rather well with their d8 hit die and weak saves.