Paladin: Gaining spell levels faster

[MagnusV]

Hello, Gitp

I am thinking of starting a Paladin in 3.5, going to grab Battle Blessing, since my DM allows all material, i noticed that Paladin gets some cool spells it can cast as a swift action(using Blessing). I have tried to find the answer to my question myself, but there is just so many books/sources to pour through that i decided to see if anyone here already had the answer.

My question is, is there a way to get access to the higher spells faster, i don't want to wait till 15 for my 4th level spells, I understand that this may seem like a silly question since if there was a way, it would be pretty well known and overpowered.

But i figure for a paladin, which in 3.5 standard are pretty weak anyway, that it would make them fun.

P.S: Can someone explain to me how Lantern Light Spell works? (BOED)
It says that you get 1 additional ray per 2 levels, then states 1 per round? is it saying that you can do it on consecutive rounds without casting? seems like more poor wording from d&d.
Rays of holy light flash from your eyes.
You can fire 1 ray per 2 caster levels, but no more than 1 ray per round.
You must succeed on a ranged touch attack to hit a target.
The target takes 1d6 points of damage from each ray.

[Kuulvheysoon]

For gaining spell levels faster, the only way I can think of doing so is either cheese or forgetting about Paladin completely.

Instead, take a Prestige Class that gives access to the Paladin list (like Pious Templar, CD). Assuming bonus spells, that'll give you access to 4th level spells at 7th level, or ECL 12.

[Psyren]

Prestige Paladin will make you a "paladin" with much faster spellcasting progression. Cleric 5/Fighter 1 can get you in, then 3 levels of PrC Paladin will get you all paladin spells up to 4th level, as well as 3/3 BAB and 2/3 cleric spellcasting progression. Battle Blessing will only apply to your paladin spells however, not your cleric ones.

Concerning Lantern Light - yeah it's pretty poorly worded. The spell's intent seems to be to put a buff on you that lets you fire a ray every round until the spell expires or you run out of rays. But the way it's worded you will run out of rays before the spell runs out (you get 1 ray/round/2 levels, but the spell lasts 1 round/level). Which leads to more uncertainty as it isn't clear what happens if the spell is going on while your rays are finished. It also isn't clear what action is needed to fire a ray each round, and it's odd that it can damage any creature (not just evil/undead etc.) The abstinence component is pretty funny though.

[gallagher]

I personally am a fan of going cleric4/crusader1/prestige paladin2/gray guard X/Ruby Knight Windicator X (Wee Jas is LN and you arent nearly as restricted by going prestige paladin, seeing as you can be one alignment step from your deity. still, I would consult my friendly neighborhood DM about maybe letting the wee jas thing slide for that time)

[MagnusV]

First, Thank you guys for the responces


For gaining spell levels faster, the only way I can think of doing so is either cheese or forgetting about Paladin completely.

Instead, take a Prestige Class that gives access to the Paladin list (like Pious Templar, CD). Assuming bonus spells, that'll give you access to 4th level spells at 7th level, or ECL 12.

Sorry i did not specify, Prestige classes or variants of any sort are ok, i mainly want the paladin feel/play style, how much cheese are we talking about? can i get an idea of what you are referring to?


Prestige Paladin will make you a "paladin" with much faster spellcasting progression. Cleric 5/Fighter 1 can get you in, then 3 levels of PrC Paladin will get you all paladin spells up to 4th level, as well as 3/3 BAB and 2/3 cleric spellcasting progression. Battle Blessing will only apply to your paladin spells however, not your cleric ones.

Concerning Lantern Light - yeah it's pretty poorly worded. The spell's intent seems to be to put a buff on you that lets you fire a ray every round until the spell expires or you run out of rays. But the way it's worded you will run out of rays before the spell runs out (you get 1 ray/round/2 levels, but the spell lasts 1 round/level). Which leads to more uncertainty as it isn't clear what happens if the spell is going on while your rays are finished. It also isn't clear what action is needed to fire a ray each round, and it's odd that it can damage any creature (not just evil/undead etc.) The abstinence component is pretty funny though.

That may work, not sure i want to start off/play a cleric, but if its the best way then...


I personally am a fan of going cleric4/crusader1/prestige paladin2/gray guard 10/RKV3 (Wee Jas is LN and you arent nearly as restricted by going prestige paladin, seeing as you can be one alignment step from your deity. still, I would consult my friendly neighborhood DM about maybe letting the wee jas thing slide for that time)

I want the paladin alignment/restrictions, my favorite part of d&d is the roleplaying, i like the challenges..

About the Lantern Light, Thanks for the explanation, seems ill have better spells to use my blessing on than that. was kinda hoping the 1 ray/round was a typo, then it would be a decent spell to use

[Person_Man]

Chameleon prestige class gets access to Paladin spells (and all half-caster and prestige class spells) at a fairly quick pace. Similarly, Archivist can memorize spells from any list. Not exactly sure if they'd work with Battle Blessing, but a nice DM might let you use them together.

Mystic Fire Knight Paladin substitution levels from Champions of Valor gives you a few bonus spell slots (but not faster casting) and the useful disrupt spellcasting and spellshatter abilities. Though sadly you'd have to give up Turn Undead, which is a very potent way to fuel divine and domain feats.

You might also be able to finagle custom wands or a staff. The Rule Compendium clarifies that the activation of an item is the same as the activation of the spell it duplicates - thus a wand with at Swift Action spell stored in it is a Swift Action to activate.

Though it's worth mentioning that even without Battle Blessing, there are a number of useful Paladin spells which are Swift Action by default. Rhino's Rush, Knight's Move, Devastating Smite, probably others. Just 1 level of Paladin is all you need to activate any Paladin spell trigger item, without the need for UMD.

[Psyren]

Warning Shout is a fun one - level 1 paladin spell, make all allies within 30ft. no longer flat-footed. Great if you're first to act (or have a way of acting in the surprise round, during an ambush.)

[JaronK]

Cleric/PrC Paladin 3/Any other cleric class (Contemplative? Church Inquisitor?) is definitely the way to go, especially with the Holy Mount feat. You'll have all the Paladin abilities (some better than normal, like your mount will be stronger) but FAR faster casting progression. With Persistent Divine Power, you'll even have full BAB.

JaronK

[MagnusV]

Prestige Paladin will make you a "paladin" with much faster spellcasting progression. Cleric 5/Fighter 1 can get you in, then 3 levels of PrC Paladin will get you all paladin spells up to 4th level, as well as 3/3 BAB and 2/3 cleric spellcasting progression. Battle Blessing will only apply to your paladin spells however, not your cleric ones.

I tried looking into this, maybe i just am not seeing it, but doesnt PrC Paladin give you +1 level to existing divine class? how would this get me access to paladin spell list?

My understanding of battle blessing is that you have to be casting the spell off your paladin spell list, that a cleric spell that is cast that is also a paladin spell would not qualify.. Also the pre-req for battle blessing is ability to cast paladin spells, I would assume this means "as a paladin" not just any spell that is on the paladin list qualifies.

[Psyren]

I tried looking into this, maybe i just am not seeing it, but doesnt PrC Paladin give you +1 level to existing divine class? how would this get me access to paladin spell list?

You missed the opening paragraph that applies to all prestigious character classes:


Unique Spells

The bard, paladin, and ranger spell lists contain a number of spells that don't appear on other classes' spell lists. In general, any character who enters one of these prestige classes should gain access to spells unique to that class's spell list, at the same levels indicated for the standard class. At the game master's discretion, spells unique to that class's spell list found in other books may also be available, but on a case by case basis. The game master may require such spells to be researched or learned specifically by the character, rather than simply making them freely available.

What this means is that:
- You automatically get all core paladin spells.
- The spell levels of these spells are unchanged. (So a 1st-level paladin spell will still be 1st-level to a PrC Paladin, even if the class they entered with has better spellcasting progression.)
- With DM permission, you can get paladin spells from other splats.


My understanding of battle blessing is that you have to be casting the spell off your paladin spell list, that a cleric spell that is cast that is also a paladin spell would not qualify.

See above - you are actually learning paladin spells as a PrC Paladin.

[JaronK]

There's a special rule in Unearthed Arcana (where PrC Paladin was printed) that says that any Paladin only spell gets added to your list if you take PrC Paladin, but it must be Paladin only.

JaronK

[MagnusV]

Oh.. Perfect! thanks JaronK, Psyren.

[andromax]

You should also take a look at Ordained Champion, easy to qualify for.

Free domain, too.

3 levels is perfect for a Paladin type char, netting you smite anything and spell channeling, among other things. 5 levels is quite good too. Nicer, for a paladin.. you can trade up to 2 domains for fighter bonus feats. Generally though, your domains are better than feats.

The smite anything makes Awesome Smite that much better.

My next paladin build is either going to be a vanilla paladin with Duskblade spell progression(Sooooo many jealous paladins) or Cleric/Church Inquis/Prestige Pal/Ordained Champ/Pious Templar.

[gallagher]

Just one more thing about Gray Guard if I may, you still have to be justified in it, and you have some great RP abilities. Read the PrC description, its awesome, especially the "Though no less virtuous than other paladins, they join the order’s bloodstained ranks out of a sense of necessity. Those who seek membership merely because they resent the yoke of their code of conduct are unfit to be gray guards or paladins; such weak-willed individuals are swiftly excommunicated from both orders." part.

Basically, it makes "it had to be done, we had no other option" a justifiable excuse to bend your code a little, and atoning doesnt require the cleric to use XP. You only get to act solely on your own discretion until the capstone, which you dont even have to take if you dont want. Since you are getting 5th level spells anyway, you can take some holy, sacred vow not to atone yourself so you cant take the shortcut.

More bonus, it gives more versatility to your lay on hands and your smite evil ability, and you eventually get bonuses to bluff, disguise and intimidate. This class helps mobilize the true weapon of law and good.

[MagnusV]

Great suggestions from both of you, i like the spell channeling, and since it looks like i might have to start off cleric(since i need the divine spell progression), ill be able to cast/deliver my cleric spells through weapon as a move action, that's sweet.

As for the Gray Guards role, seems interesting, seems chaotic good, but its a lawful class, but i think it would be too similar to playing a CG aligned character, i might add it if i am having to much issue riding the paladin code. though i must admit smite/any would be very nice.

I am thinking so far that ill be going 4-cleric\full base attack splash*\3** PrC Paladin\3-Ordained Champion\(not sure on the rest, maybe Gray Guard if i think i want the flavor by then)

And since my DM is allowing LA buyoffs, ill probably add saint to the character since it fits and is awesome.

*- Not sure which splash i want to do, crusader would be nice but honestly i have been using ToB a lot lately.. so perhaps fighter for the bonus feat.

** - Changed the 2 PrC Paladin to 3, for the fear/desease immunities/+1 caster