Help me out

[Frozen_Feet]

Whoever reads this, build one level 10 character. Race is human. Allowed classes are: Fighter, Monk, Ranger. Use Elite array for stats. Do not concern yourself with item choices. Only skillpoint distribution and feat allocation matter. Use feats found from the d20 SRD only.

When done, replace each feat your character has with it's similarly-named counterpart from this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154811). Post a comparison between what your character could do with core feat and what he can do with new feats here.

[Deaxsa]

do you want us to read the other thread's feats before we start making guys?
how heavily optimized do you want us to make our characters?

[Telonius]

What are we using for ability scores?

[Frozen_Feet]

do you want us to read the other thread's feats before we start making guys?
how heavily optimized do you want us to make our characters?

Reading the remade feats beforehand is not necessary. You can throw darts to pick your feats for all I care.


What are we using for ability scores?

Use the Elite array.

[Telonius]

Okay, very basic, not particularly powerful, straight-class fighter, focusing on Spiked Chain. (Refrained from using Leadership for sake of the experiment).

Human Fighter.
Str 15
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 13
Wis 10
Cha 8

Stat bumps in Strength at 4 and 8, for a final Str of 17.

1 Power Attack
1 Combat Expertise (Human)
1 Improved Trip (Ftr)
2 EWP: Spiked Chain (Ftr)
3 Quick Draw
4 Weapon Focus (Spiked Chain) (Ftr)
6 Combat Reflexes
6 Weapon Specialization (Spiked Chain) (Ftr)
8 Greater Weapon Focus (Spiked Chain) (Ftr)
9 Iron Will
10 Blind Fight (Ftr)


So, comparing it to the similarly-named feats...
1 Power Attack: gets the [brawn] and [fighter] tag, no other changes so far.
1 Combat Expertise: [guile] [fighter]. Starting to count guile feats now. +1 vs feint, disarm, and sundering while using expertise.
1 Improved Trip:[brawn](2), [finesse] [fighter]. Currently +5 to trip. +1 vs tripped or being knocked prone.
2 EWP: [fighter][monastic]. Since I have 4 fighter feats now, I get an extra proficiency besides Spiked Chain. Let's go with Dwarven Waraxe.
3 Quick Draw: [fighter] (5 now)[guile](2)[Finesse](2). 2 for 1 on Expertise. 2 for 1 on Power Attack. +2 sleight of hand and bluff. Feint or disarm as a free action immediately after drawing.
4 Weapon Focus [fighter](6) [finesse](3). I get another exotic proficiency (bastard sword), and since I have two finesse my attack roll is +2 instead of +1.
6 Combat Reflexes [fighter](7) [finesse](4). One extra attack of opportunity from finesse. I have six fighter feats besides this feat, so Tumble DCs go up by 30(!). Draw a hidden item as a free action.
6 Weapon Specialization [fighter](8) +8damage on selected weapons. Two attacks on a Trip. New proficiency: Whip.
8 Greater Weapon Focus [fighter](9) +1 to Charisma-based checks and +2 to Intimidate when wielding spiked chain. Intimidate check to demoralize when you draw (combined this with Quick Draw.. do you feint before or after the free action demoralize?) Reroll damage twice per round (or +2d6 to save weapon from Bad Stuff). Reroll crit confirmation 1/round. Tumble Past DCs up by 35 now.
9 Iron Will [general] +3 to Will
10 Blind Fight [Fighter](10) [monastic](2). New proficiency: .. oh, let's say Net. 4 for 1 on Expertise. +10 damage on selected weapons

Regular Fighter / Changed Feats
+4 to Trip / +5 to Trip
1 attack on a trip / 2 attacks on a trip
1 EWP / 5 EWP
1 AoO per round / 2 AoOs per round
+1 to spiked chain attack from Focus / +2 to spiked chain and 4 other weapon attacks from Focus
1 for 1 on Expertise / 4 for 1 on Expertise
1 for 1 on Power Attack / 2 for 1 on Power Attack
Tumble past DC is 15 / Tumble past DC is 50
Tumble through DC is 25 / Tumble through DC is 60 (*assuming the +40 DC applies to tumbling through as well as tumbling past)
+2 damage on Spiked Chain / +10 damage on selected weapons

New version has, old doesn't:
+1 vs feint, disarm, and sunder while using expertise
Reroll damage 2/round (or +2d6 to save weapon)
Reroll crit confirmation 1/round
+2 sleight of hand and Bluff
Draw hidden item as a free action if dc15 sleight check.
+1 to charisma-based checks while wielding spiked chain
+2 to intimidate checks while wielding spiked chain
Feint or disarm as a free action after drawing a weapon.

I'd be pretty concerned about those Tumble DCs. A (basic unoptimized) Rogue20 with max ranks, 28 Dex, and +2 synergy from jump is only looking at +34. I know for sure there are other ways to bump up Tumble, but it seems that this is kind of excessive.


EDIT: Ah, just saw the second page of the other thread. Made some assorted edits. Other question for Power Attack ... if it moves from 1/1 to 2/1, what about two-handed weapons?

[Frozen_Feet]

Combined this with Quick Draw.. do you feint before or after the free action demoralize?

As Demoralizing is called as being part of the draw action, while feinting is called to happen after the draw action, you demoralize first, and feint second. (You also forgot to put this special demoralize into your summary. :smallwink:)


I'd be pretty concerned about those Tumble DCs. A (basic unoptimized) Rogue20 with max ranks, 28 Dex, and +2 synergy from jump is only looking at +34. I know for sure there are other ways to bump up Tumble, but it seems that this is kind of excessive.

Hmmm, point. I will have to adjust that. And yes, it does apply to tumbling through.


EDIT: Ah, just saw the second page of the other thread. Made some assorted edits. Other question for Power Attack ... if it moves from 1/1 to 2/1, what about two-handed weapons?

The damage bonus is multiplied by 1½. If this was unclear, any suggestions in how to change the wording?

---

On another note, I think I changed Weapon Specialization soon after you made your build: whenever you could kill an opponent, you can leave them at -9 and stable when using any of your chosen weapons.

Looking at it, the "basic tripper build" is made notably stronger, but doesn't get too much more versatility compared to "vanilla" version of the dame build. I may have to add more options to the early parts of Weapon Focus line.

How do you feel of your "fixed" fighter as of now?