PF Mystic Theurge Early Entry, Cheese?

[MukkTB]

Like 3.5, in PF Mystic Theurge is terrible when you have to take 3 levels of each spellcasting class before you start. However you supposedly can get in early with the trait Magical Lineage and the feat Heighten Spell. Is that RAW? How cheesy is it in play?

[Squirrel_Dude]

Like 3.5, in PF Mystic Theurge is terrible when you have to take 3 levels of each spellcasting class before you start. However you supposedly can get in early with the trait Magical Lineage and the feat Heighten Spell. Is that RAW? How cheesy is it in play?Really strict RAW? No.

- Magical Lineage allows you to select one spell and have it be one level lower for the purpose of metamagic feats.
- Heighten spell allows you to cast a spell one level higher than normal.

So yes, you would be able to cast a second level spell, when you should only be able to cast first level spells.

However, that's the rub. The rules for entry into Mystic Theurge say that you need to be able to cast second level arcane spells and second level divine spells. So you technically, you wouldn't meet the prerequisites, and the DM would throw a book at you for trying this anyways. Even if you have 1 spell in both lists that you can cast at a higher level, you still wouldn't be able to cast multiple divine spells or multiple arcane spells.

[MukkTB]

Oh I should say you take Magical Lineage for a spell that appears on both classes spell lists. Protection from evil is a favorite.

[TheOOB]

From my reading it doesn't work. Heighten spell increases the effective spell level of a spell, but it's still not actually a spell of that level.

That is to say, Magic Missile is a 1st level spell. Said combo allows you to cast it as a second level spell, but it's still a 1st level spell at it's base. You need to actually be able to cast real second level spells.

It's kind of like how a 3.5 monk can't take Improved Natural Attack because while their unarmed strike is treated as a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve natural weapons, it's not actually a natural weapon for the purposes of prerequisites for being a target for said feat.

[Vizzerdrix]

From my reading it doesn't work. Heighten spell increases the effective spell level of a spell, but it's still not actually a spell of that level.

Wrong. My counter argument. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/metamagic-feats/heighten-spell-metamagic---final)


I've played an early entry Mystic Theurge. It cuts down on the "five minute adventuring day" problem early casters have and give you a way to contribute other than failing with a crossbow. It also lets someone deal with the roll of healer while letting them play an arcane caster.

Just remember. Yes, they have a ton of spells, BUT they can only cast one at a time.

[MukkTB]

If we accept that heighten spell qualifies I wonder if 1 lvl 2 wizard spell and 1 level 2 cleric spell qualify. As far as I can tell the requirements are the ability to cast "spells" plural.

The other thing is that if the PF designers really felt entry to mystic theurge at level 4 was bad then they could have just increased the skillpoint requirements. Requiring 6 ranks in some skill would be a lot harder to overcome for early entry.

[Vizzerdrix]

I've always used versatile Spellcaster+heighten to enter early. But that's 3.5.