Question about Druid/Binder gestalt

[BHarkonnen]

My DM wants to run a Druid Gestalt campaign based in Forgotten Realms. We will be having three players and we are required to have druid as part of a build. The other two guys are picking wizard and Barbarian respectively, and I am sure that they will pick fairly optimized PrCs.

The DM allows for dual side PrCs and Theurge classes as he wants it to be a high powered campaign but he has excluded Factotum, psionics, Incantatrix and planar Shepard. I'm fairly sure he won't allow anything that seriously breaks action economy. I have looked through to see what kind of Druid gestalt builds are out there, but I don't really like Druid/monk or Druid/Cleric.

So here is my question. Is a binder a good combo with Druid? I really like the Binder's flavor, but I don't know a lot about the class. I have read through the handbook, and the options are overwhelming, but it seems like there could be some good passive abilities that would complement a druid. However, I haven't really found anyone talking about this as an option, and am wondering if I am missing something.

So, could the combo work, what would the build look like and would it be underpowered compared to a druid/wizard or druid/barbarian?

[Fouredged Sword]

You could make a summoner who really spams summons. Really Binder can go well with anything.

Your spells are divine. You could get unlimited turn undead uses to power DMM persisted summons and buffs.

[Psyren]

Binder combos well with anything, so sure. Just avoid any vestiges that give you metal items (e.g. Savnok, Eurynome) so that you don't accidentally break your druid vows and you'll be fine.

Dahlver-Nar is a great option for druids - he gives you a natural armor bonus based on Con, the only physical stat you need, that will stack with the base natural armor from your wild shaping. He also protects your Wisdom score from damage and drain, so your druid casting will always be top-notch. If you build a grappler, be sure to bind Zagan for his constrict attack.

If you're Exalted, Naberius is another good option - you can prepare Sanctified spells, and Naberius will help you quickly undo the sacrifices.

There's a ton of options; it really depends on your playstyle and what you feel like doing.

[ksbsnowowl]

If you're Exalted, Naberius is another good option - you can prepare Sanctified spells, and Naberius will help you quickly undo the sacrifices.


That right there is nice.

[Mnemnosyne]

If your DM is allowing PrC on both sides and they can be theurges, and if you're up to the bookkeeping task, I'd consider mixing in some arcane casting.

Level 1: Druid 1 // Wizard (Conjurer) 1
Level 2: Druid 2 // Binder 1
Level 3: Druid 3 // Binder 2
Level 4: Druid 4 // Anima Mage 1
Level 5: Druid 5 // Anima Mage 2
Level 6: Arcane Hierophant 1 // Anima Mage 3
Level 7: Arcane Hierophant 2 // Anima Mage 4
Level 8: Arcane Hierophant 3 // Anima Mage 5
Level 9: Druid 6 // Anima Mage 6
Level 10: Druid 7 // Anima Mage 7
Level 11: Druid 8 // Anima Mage 8
Level 12: Druid 9 // Anima Mage 9
Level 13: Druid 10 // Anima Mage 10
Level 14: Arcane Hierophant 4 // Knight of the Sacred Seal 1
Level 15: Arcane Hierophant 5 // Knight of the Sacred Seal 2
Level 16: Arcane Hierophant 6 // Knight of the Sacred Seal 3
Level 17: Arcane Hierophant 7 // Knight of the Sacred Seal 4
Level 18: Arcane Hierophant 8 // Knight of the Sacred Seal 5
Level 19: Arcane Hierophant 9 // Scion of Dantalion 1
Level 20: Arcane Hierophant 10 // Scion of Dantalion 2

That takes your wizard casting through your Anima Mage levels, then switches it over to Arcane Hierophant, so you wind up with druid casting at 20th level, binding at 19th level, and wizard casting at 18th level.

If you can find another druid PrC that you can take in the earlier levels that also advances wildshape and animal companion, that's good. I'm not familiar enough with all of them to know that. The three early levels of arcane hierophant are to bring the Companion Familiar online as early as possible; this improves your animal companion's intelligence and gives you a lot of additional abilities to use with it, and also to give you the ignore arcane spell failure feature. At that level you can start wearing nonmetallic medium armor.

This build can naturally gravitate toward being an awesome summoner. But, you can pretty much do any damn thing you please with it and it'll work out great.

The sanctified spells suggestion is a good one, but it's important to note that you do not have to be good in order to cast those spells. You have to be non-evil. Since anima mage requires nongood, you can safely be any of the Neutral alignments, which also fits well with the druid's requirement of at least one alignment axis being neutral. This also allows you to cast corrupt spells, which also do ability damage/drain, and can also be healed by Naberius.

DMM doesn't work with Tenebrous's rebuking, because Tenebrous only gives 1 attempt every 5 rounds...the minimum you need to use on a DMM is 2 turn attempts simultaneously. You could use it to augment an existing turning ability, by using Tenebrous's turning attempt to take 1 off the cost of your normal DMM costs, but not as the sole source of turning.

If you wanted to go totally insane, you could even throw Ur-Priest in there. You'd be giving up some wizard casting, I think - not sure if there's a way to build this so that you wouldn't - but you'd wind up with 9th level cleric spells, somewhere around 7th or 8th level wizard spells, 9th level druid spells, and 9th level binding.

[BHarkonnen]

@Fouredged Sword- Are you talking about Zceryll? A psudonatural druid seems like it would hard to explain that from an RP standpoint, but it does seem amazing from a power perspective. It's like a way better summon elemental reserve feat.

@Psyren- That is an amazing use of Naberius. That is something I will have to plan on using.

@Mnemnosyne- Wow, that is a great build. Thank you. I was wondering if a
Druid/Binder could fill a skill monkey role, but with that build including wizard casting, it could almost be every role.

[Fouredged Sword]

"Aberration you say, no, not aberration! Mutation! Change is the power of nature. Evolution."

Psudonatural = tenticals
Tenticals = mutation
QED psudonatural = mutation.

I would be CN and use the above build. I would be sorely tempted to look at a one level alienist (check to make sure it won't hurt your druid summons) dip for potential psudonatural animal companion/familiar and psudonatural druid summons.

[Sith_Happens]

If your DM is allowing PrC on both sides and they can be theurges, and if you're up to the bookkeeping task, I'd consider mixing in some arcane casting.

Level 1: Druid 1 // Wizard (Conjurer) 1
Level 2: Druid 2 // Binder 1
Level 3: Druid 3 // Binder 2
Level 4: Druid 4 // Anima Mage 1
Level 5: Druid 5 // Anima Mage 2
Level 6: Arcane Hierophant 1 // Anima Mage 3
Level 7: Arcane Hierophant 2 // Anima Mage 4
Level 8: Arcane Hierophant 3 // Anima Mage 5
Level 9: Druid 6 // Anima Mage 6
Level 10: Druid 7 // Anima Mage 7
Level 11: Druid 8 // Anima Mage 8
Level 12: Druid 9 // Anima Mage 9
Level 13: Druid 10 // Anima Mage 10
Level 14: Arcane Hierophant 4 // Knight of the Sacred Seal 1
Level 15: Arcane Hierophant 5 // Knight of the Sacred Seal 2
Level 16: Arcane Hierophant 6 // Knight of the Sacred Seal 3
Level 17: Arcane Hierophant 7 // Knight of the Sacred Seal 4
Level 18: Arcane Hierophant 8 // Knight of the Sacred Seal 5
Level 19: Arcane Hierophant 9 // Scion of Dantalion 1
Level 20: Arcane Hierophant 10 // Scion of Dantalion 2

That takes your wizard casting through your Anima Mage levels, then switches it over to Arcane Hierophant, so you wind up with druid casting at 20th level, binding at 19th level, and wizard casting at 18th level.

What happens to your Wizard casting on levels on levels 6-8 (Arcane Hierophant//Anima Mage)?:smallconfused:

[Fouredged Sword]

No double advancement of a single class feature. You get wizard casting +1 each level, but not wizard casting +2.

[Person_Man]

Yup, it'll work fine, though you'll probably want to avoid vestiges with a Saving Throw, since they're Cha based.

My suggested vestiges for a Druid//Binder, with earliest effective Binder level required, which is your Binder level + 2 if you have the Improved Binder Feat noted:

1: Ronove - Cold Iron and Magic Attacks, Far Hand*, Feather Fall, Ronove’s Fists, Sprint. Far Hand lets you move objects with like Mage Hand with a Str equal to your Binder level (so it's not really useful until mid levels) as a Swift Action, and you can keep it going continuously once started[/I]. So buy a very wide and very thin sheet of mithral or whatever, and move it around the battlefield at will to block line of sight and frustrate enemies. Or if your effective Str is high enough that you can carry yourself, you can make a surf board, stand on it, and move it around as a Swift Action, which will ensure that you can make a full attack every round you want to. You also gain Improved Unarmed Strike and Unarmed Damage as a Monk of your Binder level, which synergizes nicely with Wildshape.

5: Paimon - Dance of Death*, Paimon’s Blade, Paimon’s Dexterity, Paimon’s Skills, Uncanny Dodge, Whirlwind Attack. Very useful at ECl 5-7ish for melee, though you'll want to move onto better vestiges at higher levels.

10: Balam: Balam’s Cunning*, Icy Glare, Prescience, Weapon Finesse. Some modestly useful buffs. The big one is Balam's Cunning, which lets you reroll anything once every 5 rounds, which is very useful out of combat for Skill checks, or in combat if you roll a 1 and your DM uses critical failure house rules.

12: Desharis (Cityscape Web Enhancement) - City Dweller, Infinite Doors, Language of the City, Smite Natural Soul*, Spirits of the City*. Spirits of the City is at will Animate Objects once every 5 rounds, which is wildly useful for battlefield control or nanobots.

12: Haures: Mind Blank, Incorporeal Movement, Major Image*, Phantasmal Killer*. Mind Blank is an uber defense, and a creative player can do all sorts of things with Major Image and Incorporeal Movement.

12: Zagon: Aversion*, Improved Grapple, Scent, Constrict, Snake Bane. Grapple and Constrict is useful for any melee build. And Aversion basically Antipathy, except it also forces your enemy to move away from snakes (which you can create yourself with Haures or Zceryll). Put them together, and you have an easy time locking down one enemy while forcing another away from you.

12: Zceryll: The most powerful vestige for lots of reasons already discussed.

15: Ansitif (Dragon 357): Blaspheme^, Divine Resistance, Fire Immunity, Thrall to Demon. Blaspheme (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/blasphemy.htm) is only 3 times per day, and is basically an auto-win button (No Save for most of the effects) against non-Evil enemies with hit die = or lower then your effective Binder level. The Spell Resistance against divine spells and other abilities are also worthwhile. But you basically want to bind this vestige if you know you will be fighting against a non-Evil mook rush.

[BHarkonnen]

Thank you all for all the advice. I think I'll feel pretty good about the binder choice. It's such cool flavor, it reminds me of Voodoo totems from Shadowrun. Seems perfect for a druid.