Leap Attack

[Mr Tumnus]

When a fellow player asked my GM about the Leap Attack feat he said that it adds another instance of power attack instead of simply doubling the bonus. For instance, if the player took a -6 to hit he would gain a +18 to damage when using a 2-h weapon.

I was under the impression that leap attack just flat out doubled it, so when taking a -6 to hit with power attack you'd get +24 damage (+12 for 2-h doubled for leap attack).

Thoughts?

[Siosilvar]

Eratta is "+100% the normal bonus damage from your use of the power attack feat", but doesn't replace the "triple damage" text. If this CustServ response (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?178197-Leap-Attack-feat-amp-Monsters/page4&p=3138082&viewfull=1#post3138082) is to be believed, it was intended to replace that text and just flat-out double PA bonus damage.

[JBento]

I'm away from books, and Leap Attack isn't on the srd for me to double-check, HOWEVER, standard 3.5 practice is that multipliers are applied to the base value and not to an otherwise multiplied value.

As such, doubling a double is a tripling, tripling a double is a quadrupling, tripling a triple is a quintupling, etc.

EDIT: I don't know what the current community take is, but as general rule, you can get a answer from CustServ that supports whatever you want by just asking the same question enough times. Kind of like typewriting monkeys and Shakespeare.

[Gavinfoxx]

Human, Spirit Lion Totem, Whirling Frenzy Barbarian 9

Feats:
1. Power Attack
Hu: Battle Jump
3: Improved Bull Rush
6: Shock Trooper
9: Leap Attack

Items of note: A +1 Baatorian Greensteel Gloryborn Valorous Greatsword (a +2-equivalent weapon).
A +2 Enhancement item of strength.

Assumptions: He starts with an 18 strength and he puts his level 4 and 8 bonus to strength, and he maxxes Jump.

Here is his attack routine on a Whirling Frenzy-enabled Heedless Charge, jumping at the enemy to enable Battle Jump, with Leap Attack, with full power attack, at level 9:

Attack 1:
26 str (+8)
-2 to hit from whirling frenzy
+9 bab to hit
+1 enhancement to hit
+2 charge

Damage: 2d6
+1 enhancement
+12 strength (8 +4)
+1 Gloryborn
+27 with a Leap Attack Power Attack (9*3, via leap attack, rather than 9*1.5)
+1 from Greensteel

Multiplier x3 = Battle Jump (x2) + Valorous (x2)

(So a 2d6 changes into 6d6 after the x3 multiplier)

Damage on first attack is 6d6+126

So +18/6d6+126
or an average of 147 damage.

Attack 2:
26 str (+8)
-2 to hit from whirling frenzy
+9 bab to hit
+1 enhancement to hit
+2 charge

This is the same as the first attack, so +18/6d6+126
again, an average of 147 damage.

Attack 3:
28 str (+8)
-2 to hit from whirling frenzy
+4 bab to hit
+1 enhancement to hit
+2 Charge

+13 to hit

Damage:
Damage: 2d6
+1 enhancement
+12 strength (8 +4)
+1 Gloryborn
+27 with a Leap Attack Power Attack (9*3, via leap attack, rather than 9*1.5)
+1 from Greensteel

So this is +13/6d6+126
again, an average of 147damage.

So 441 damage at level 9, while relatively under-equipped (you should have higher strength and better gear).

[lsfreak]

The errata means it's +24. But it's an extremely common houserule to make it "only" +18 (especially if you're Shocktroopering it up), make it apply only to the first attack on a pounce, or both. My preference would likely be allowing the full, errata'd bonus of +24 but followup attacks from pounce only get base +12.

[herrhauptmann]

A Character.
Was the point to show how good Leap Attack+Shocktrooper can be? Or to demonstrate how to calculate Leap Attack bonus damage?
If the latter, keep it simple.

Also, where is Gloryborn from? It's not showing up in my CK pdf. Eberron?

[Gavinfoxx]

Was the point to show how good Leap Attack+Shocktrooper can be? Or to demonstrate how to calculate Leap Attack bonus damage?
If the latter, keep it simple.

Also, where is Gloryborn from? It's not showing up in my CK pdf. Eberron?

Both, really.

DMG II is where it is from.

[herrhauptmann]

DMG II is where it is from.

Crap, mine grew legs and walked away 3 years ago. :smallfurious:And I don't have a pdf. :smallmad:

[Person_Man]

Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1971034&postcount=19)'s a really, really old post that might be helpful. I'll cut and past in case people are too lazy to follow the link:


I while back I sent WotC Cust Serv a question, asking what the exact ratio was for Leap Attack, and how it stacked with the Frenzied Berserker Supreme Power Attack ability. Initially, they gave me some crazy math. I thought it was BS, so I posted it on the Optimization boards (generally the best source of info on RAW). It caused a lot of argument. Not long afterwards I got this reply from Cust Serv:


There was a revisit to the Leap Attack feat official answer, and it seems that I misunderstood what the answer was supposed to be. Because of our Help system, I'm able to send you this update and inform you how the rule is supposed to be properly adjudicated. This is passed down from the big dogs.

The 100% entry in the errata only applies to the second sentence. The 100% entry in the errata document was created to cut down on the confusion regarding the intent behind the word "double". They got rid of the "double" entry because it confused how it was supposed to work with other effects that "doubled" power attack damage.

The 3rd sentence is not changed. The "Tripled" entry is intended to replace the "doubled" entry mentioned in the Power Attack feat.

The final math behind the feat is as follows:

Power Attack + Leap Attack + one-handed weapon: -1 atk, +2 damage

Power Attack + Leap Attack + two-handed weapon: -1 atk, +3 damage

According to the errata, Leap Attack doesn’t add any more damage when used with a two-handed weapon than it does when used with a one-handed weapon. Either way, it is intended to add one more point of damage per point of attack penalty.

I'm very sorry for the confusion that has occurred regarding this issue. Hopefully this will help to solve any debates that have occurred due to the previous incorrect ruling on my part.

When coupled with Supreme Power Attack, the ratio would be: -1 atk, +7 damage.

I agree with this ruling - though obviously everything Cust Serv writes has to be taken with a grain of salt. They basically just hire college kids with a stack of D&D books to answer email. So their answers are equally as reliable (or unreliable) as any of the regulars on this board (who often disagree, because the rules are poorly written). But apparently it caused enough of a ruckus that someone important interceded, so maybe this ruling should be respected more then others.

[thatclone]

im working on a similar build and i have a questions. what happens if i crit? do i do all the triple damage then apply the crit orrrrrrrrrr what lol?

[Person_Man]

im working on a similar build and i have a questions. what happens if i crit? do i do all the triple damage then apply the crit orrrrrrrrrr what lol?

Yes. Everything is multiplied on a critical hit except for bonus dice of damage.

But note that it follows wacky D&D multiplying rules.

And beyond a scabbard of keen edges, I wouldn't bother investing any serious resources into trying to optimizing crits. You're mathematically better off getting pounce and adding extra attacks. (And nothing is immune to extra attacks, whereas lots of things are immune to crits).