Plz help me build a decent warlock!

[SolBallads]

Well, this is my first post here :smallsmile: and I am gonna need all the help I can get..

I consider myself an amateur in DnD even though I have played in a couple of campaigns till today. But now I'm facing a chalenge.

The DM wanted to play with two parties. One evil (us) and a good one.
I decided to build a warlock because it seemed like the fun thing to do and I was enjoying my class till the first serious battle when I realized I was pretty useless.

I read a build for a glaivelock based on some levels of unarmed swordsage, but my DM said no ToB because "who's gonna teach you how to be a swordsage?"

Among the players, there is an ubercharger. Pretty powerful I'd say..:smallwink:

So, till now I'm a 6th level warlock.
My stats are str-18, dex-14, con-17, int-18, wis-16, cha-17

Feats so far: Able Learner (for a dip in chameleon), Jack of All Trades (DM specifically asked me to take this for my character),Combat Reflexes and Quicken(Eldrich Glaive)

Invocations known: Eldritch Glaive, Baleful Utterance, Fell Flight and Flee the Scene..

That's it.. No homebrew rules allowed but I can use anything I want (no matter how cheesy it sounds :smallamused:) as long as I can explain it in game.

Thank you in advance for your time :smallbiggrin:

[thethird]

Go read the Warlock Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252715) it will probably give you more and better advice than we could.

I personally also like the Guide to melee warlock (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159708).

[Sgt. Cookie]

Swap your Strength score for your Dex and Quicken for Weapon Finesse, on a Warlock, Dexterity is more important than Strength.

Start working towards Hellfire Warlock (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20061207a&page=3). At level 9, grab that feat from ToM that let's you bind Nabarius. After that, take levels of Uncanny Trickster or Legacy Champion, advancing Hellfire Warlock, obviously.

[SolBallads]

Go read the Warlock Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252715) it will probably give you more and better advice than we could.

I personally also like the Guide to melee warlock (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159708).

First of all, thanks for your answer.. I've read those guides but i cannot seem to find a build i can follow for a real-deal-cheesy warlock..

Because my dm ruled out swordsage, i'm thinking of a hellfire warlock..

[aeauseth]

Here is a post of an Eldritch Gliave Master (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Eldritch_Glaive_Master_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_B uild)). Since your playing an evil campaign, you might consider replacing the cleric levels with Ur-Priest.

[SolBallads]

Swap your Strength score for your Dex and Quicken for Weapon Finesse, on a Warlock, Dexterity is more important than Strength.

Start working towards Hellfire Warlock (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20061207a&page=3). At level 9, grab that feat from ToM that let's you bind Nabarius. After that, take levels of Uncanny Trickster or Legacy Champion, advancing Hellfire Warlock, obviously.

That's pretty much what i was thinking.. but how can i add more to the pretty much standard Hellfire warlock?

Some items to suggest? (i have some resources) Any good strategies for my character? Any surviving tips??

[Morcleon]

Here's a more recent and updated Warlock Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=265455). :smallsmile:


Swap your Strength score for your Dex and Quicken for Weapon Finesse, on a Warlock, Dexterity is more important than Strength.

Start working towards Hellfire Warlock (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20061207a&page=3). At level 9, grab that feat from ToM that let's you bind Nabarius. After that, take levels of Uncanny Trickster or Legacy Champion, advancing Hellfire Warlock, obviously.

Can't use a feat to bind Naberius (that feat will only give you the skill things, not the ability damage healing). Take Shape Soulmeld (strongheart vest). It gives you effectively DR 1 for ability damage. Hellfire Warlock only deals 1 point of Con damage at a time.

[Sgt. Cookie]

I think Strongheart vest was ruled out.


The feat doesn't work? Damn. A level of Binder is best, then.

[Morcleon]

I think Strongheart vest was ruled out.


It's still heavily under debate. DR does not make you immune to damage. Strongheart vest does not make you immune to ability damage. Also, the fluff fits too. Rather than giving a bit of your own essence, you give the devils a bit of the concentrated essence of the universe's souls.

[Malroth]

Evil Warlock: I have heard rumours of these sages of the sword and wish to learn their power I begin questing to find a teacher in the sublime way. I ask the barkeep for information.


After 2 or 3 sessions of you doing nothing but pumping NPC's for information in town he'll probably change his mind.

[Treblain]

Another option for recovering the CON damage is taking Obtain Familiar and having a familiar that can speak use a wand of Lesser Restoration with your Use Magic Device ranks.

[SolBallads]

I'm gonna take a level of binder if i decide to travel the Hellfire's way..


Evil Warlock: I have heard rumours of these sages of the sword and wish to learn their power I begin questing to find a teacher in the sublime way. I ask the barkeep for information.


After 2 or 3 sessions of you doing nothing but pumping NPC's for information in town he'll probably change his mind.

Actually it's a good advice.. I'm going to try that and see what happens.. Thanks!

[SolBallads]

Any other useful tips or tactics?? How would you play an evil warlock?

[Sugashane]

Pandyman helped me greatly with this.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14277542#post14277542

[Snowbluff]

Thanks for pointing out the Zombified Warlock Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=265455), Morcy. I should leave a note telling people not to use the old one....

Can I get the list again.


Any other useful tips or tactics?? How would you play an evil warlock?

Having a ton of Undead and laughing maniacally. Being invisible is useful as well. I am a total debuff whore, so much so I am this close to writing a handbook on it. I like adding status effects to my EB. Staggering Strike would be a hard choice to use if Swordsage is out of the picture, though.

If you are not fond of the Warlock class feature, Anima Mage helps cover things a 'Lock might not otherwise get. You can enter it without Binder level, but I would not if you don't have free feats or retraining. Keep in mind Binding level 8 gives a second vestige.

[SolBallads]

Pandyman helped me greatly with this.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14277542#post14277542

Thank you mate! Your build is so close to what I wanted! Did your dm finally allowed the legacy champion /hellfire cheese? If so how did you convince him?

[SolBallads]

Thanks for pointing out the Zombified Warlock Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=265455), Morcy. I should leave a note telling people not to use the old one....

Can I get the list again.



Having a ton of Undead and laughing maniacally. Being invisible is useful as well. I am a total debuff whore, so much so I am this close to writing a handbook on it. I like adding status effects to my EB. Staggering Strike would be a hard choice to use if Swordsage is out of the picture, though.

If you are not fond of the Warlock class feature, Anima Mage helps cover things a 'Lock might not otherwise get. You can enter it without Binder level, but I would not if you don't have free feats or retraining. Keep in mind Binding level 8 gives a second vestige.

Unfortunately no free feats or retraining allowed but if you ever decide to write that debuff guide im sure it would be an epic win! I would definitely use it for a future build..

[Morcleon]

Thanks for pointing out the Zombified Warlock Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=265455), Morcy. I should leave a note telling people not to use the old one....

Can I get the list again.

You're welcome. Would you like some fries unsalted crackers with that? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14659617#post14659617) :smallbiggrin:


Having a ton of Undead and laughing maniacally. Being invisible is useful as well. I am a total debuff whore, so much so I am this close to writing a handbook on it. I like adding status effects to my EB. Staggering Strike would be a hard choice to use if Swordsage is out of the picture, though.

If you are not fond of the Warlock class feature, Anima Mage helps cover things a 'Lock might not otherwise get. You can enter it without Binder level, but I would not if you don't have free feats or retraining. Keep in mind Binding level 8 gives a second vestige.

Seconded. But don't go around only doing evil things. Confuse your enemies by, say, helping out at a hospital or orphanage or something. :smallbiggrin:

[SolBallads]

The idea of doing good deeds while being evil is so good (epic if I may say) I might just base my character entirely on this idea!

Thats just the kind of ideas im looking for!!



Seconded. But don't go around only doing evil things. Confuse your enemies by, say, helping out at a hospital or orphanage or something. :smallbiggrin:

[Snowbluff]

I am quite atrocious at actually playing the evil one. Even when I play the token evil character, this (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AffablyEvil) is about as close as I get.

I am actually playing a Female Tibbit Lock/Anima mage. It's kind of funny. I run around in a seifuku pulling pranks on the party. The running joke is I desperately want to overthrow the government, but at my low level I only know 3 invocations. It's not nearly enough to change the world.

[SolBallads]

I am quite atrocious at actually playing the evil one. Even when I play the token evil character, this (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AffablyEvil) is about as close as I get.

I am actually playing a Female Tibbit Lock/Anima mage. It's kind of funny. I run around in a seifuku pulling pranks on the party. The running joke is I desperately want to overthrow the government, but at my low level I only know 3 invocations. It's not nearly enough to change the world.

That's what I'm talking about.. making a fun to play but decent character..

[Sugashane]

Thank you mate! Your build is so close to what I wanted! Did your dm finally allowed the legacy champion /hellfire cheese? If so how did you convince him?

Yes he did allow it. He let me due to the lack of real versatility that the powering of the build offers. He saw my back up build, which was the Diplomancer/Warlock/Sha'ir (from Dragon Compendium)/Eldritch Disciple/Eldritch Theurge/Hellfire Warlock.

I did not name levels because how you choose to play would dictate the levels per classes. Sha'ir is a wonderful class that is a charisma-based arcane class that can also have access to any divine spell given time. This allows you to continue advancing Warlock abilities, and the Sha'ir spellcasting. Also how high of a level you play to will make the class choices, and we play to about 25th level, so I would have used all of them, will have 9's in my spellcasting, high damage output with my blasts, and a diplomacy in the 70's without a lot of effort. My character can make a single round diplomacy check to change the NPC's attitude, then another to make them fanatical.

This would get boring if my DM wasn't very good at adapting and enjoyed making the game challenging regardless of the PC builds.

[SolBallads]

You are right. .. but thanks for helping anyway..!! Could you provide me with the exact build you followed?? Also, did your character have moments worth sharing?

Thank so much for helping me! Sorry for all the trouble I'm putting you through :P

[Sugashane]

You are right. .. but thanks for helping anyway..!! Could you provide me with the exact build you followed?? Also, did your character have moments worth sharing?

Thank so much for helping me! Sorry for all the trouble I'm putting you through :P

No problem. My posts will be scattered as I am posting between clients today.

Bard 1/ Marshal 1/ Binder 1/ Warlock 6/ Hellfire Warlock 3/ Legacy Champion 8

That is is. The bard is the half-elf variant in unearthed arcana, binder binds to Naberius, Warlock is normal, and I am 2 levels into Hellfire Warlock. Make sure you CHA is as high as possible, and hopefully you have at least a +1 or +2 for an INT modifier, so you can pump skills up and get synergy bonuses at least. Look at post #13 in my thread, I followed up to level 10 exactly. Just follow through with the Hellfire Warlock for all 3 levels and then go straight through Legacy Champion.

I have made my character sort of the Doc Holliday from Tombstone. I rolled very well, getting an 18 in CHA, a 17 in INT, and nothing else below an 11. So I guess it was a pre-tuberculosis Doc. lol

I am the ladies man and talker of the group, stealing ideas from movies and using them to my advantage. I have successfully bedded 2 ladies of royalty under guise of a royal figure (the other woman's evil royal husband) and now have the two tyrants trying to assassinate each other. I am the herald of the group, much like Geoffrey Chaucer in A Knight's Tale, raising our prestige while talking our way our of battles we are sure to lose. I like to throw in my Barney personality (How I Met Your Mother) by bedding random women and convincing them to leave me alone. I have changed three epic wizard's opinions of our groups, bringing them to be at least helpful, and I am always the one who haggles down the price for gear or upping the rewards. I have convinced a Lord that his evil ways were unforgivable, eventually getting the idea to him that he should sign his estate and property over to me, and he decided upon suicide. Other stupid things were done for bets, like getting the angry orc to give me a hug or the Loxo NPC we are helping to let me ride on his back get done about every other session. And our favorite combat tactic is wonderful.

Someone goes to attack me, I have a held action, I make a rushed diplomacy check, essentially saying as I point at them, "Hey! NO! Stop it..." and they do. As we talk our charger does the Power Attack/Leap Attack/Pounce (Lion totem variant)/Shock Trooper (Heedless Charge) combo to annihilate him or her. If there are more I make my Eldritch Glaive a colossal weapon for 30 foot reach and my Ring of Divine Power allows me a pair of attacks.

Not a build that can be fun for everybody in a group or every DM, but I am lucky with mine. We enjoy the stupid scenarios and I do not manipulate the game in every opportunity. Make sure other players get as much action as you and then when a situation arises where your "talents" are needed, the group will pat you on the back and tell you to "go get'em."


Edit: Do not take Battle cater for heavy armor, just medium. Then you can use Mithril Full Plate without any chance of spell failure. If you plan on using the colossal glaive, and you have a decent DEX, might even look at getting some attacks of opportunities, much like Combat Reflexes. Remember, you have 30 foot reach now, though you can't trip with a glaive, you can hit anyone within 30 feet of you. And since you are only doing a touch attack, chances to hit are GREAT. Arguments can be made for flanking opponents as well. :smallbiggrin:

[SolBallads]

Just taking ideas man.. Our DM is pretty lenient too and we're having a great time..
My character is something between Randall Flagg (a low level version of him) and Discord from MLP..

Chaos is what makes him ticking..!

[ShneekeyTheLost]

As a suggestion:

If you've got an Ubercharger in your group, damage output is pretty well taken care of. Which means you could probably contribute more effectively if you focused on battlefield control. For example:

Instead of focusing on damage dealing, pick up Save or Lose Essences like Beshadowed, Hindering, Nauseating...

Pick up Chilling Tentacles as well, that's just a natural. Plus always a hit at anime conventions...

And hey, if you really want, go Warlock/UrPriest/Eldritch Disciple. 9th level spells and Dark invocations FTW

[SolBallads]

I'm looking into make him a survivor/diplomat...

Chilling tentancles although too hentai(ish) :P were in my list of invocations too..

As for the build you suggest ,could you perhaps provide me with something more specific to have something as an alternative just in case my dm won't accept the hellfire-legacy champion thing..?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Warlock9/UrPriest2/Eldritch Disciple9

If you dip for bonus Fort save, you can get into UrPriest much sooner, but the +3 base Fort save is the limiting factor.

[SolBallads]

So far so good!! My DM accepted the Legacy Champion-Hellfire Warlock build..:smallbiggrin:

Now all I have to do is take a level Binder by justifying my decision somehow.. Any ideas??

[Morcleon]

So far so good!! My DM accepted the Legacy Champion-Hellfire Warlock build..:smallbiggrin:

Now all I have to do is take a level Binder by justifying my decision somehow.. Any ideas??

Seeking a way to trick the demons who gave him power, he seeks out another source of power!

[SolBallads]

Seeking a way to trick the demons who gave him power, he seeks out another source of power!

Thanks again my friend! I might just use that..!

Or "because he is just a warlock (tier 4), he seeks out another sourse of power!" :biggrin: lol

[ShneekeyTheLost]

"Desiring to trick the demons out of his life essence, he sought a way to fortify or replenish it as rapidly as they can drain it out of him. After all, what are bargains with demons for, if not for cheating them?"

[SolBallads]

"Desiring to trick the demons out of his life essence, he sought a way to fortify or replenish it as rapidly as they can drain it out of him. After all, what are bargains with demons for, if not for cheating them?"

An excellent point!! And it fits to my character's chaotic nature..

:smallwink:

[Malroth]

I think warlocks got the shaft in the tier placement, they're a lot more versitile than warblades and can fill any party role fairly well with just a little optimization and they're never in a situation where their abilities are useless unless the character deliberately overspecalized their invocation choices. It also takes a whole lot of hoops and cheese for one to break the game so to me they're coming off as a strong tier 3.

[SolBallads]

I think warlocks got the shaft in the tier placement, they're a lot more versitile than warblades and can fill any party role fairly well with just a little optimization and they're never in a situation where their abilities are useless unless the character deliberately overspecalized their invocation choices. It also takes a whole lot of hoops and cheese for one to break the game so to me they're coming off as a strong tier 3.

I didn't know that.. In most sites they are reffered to as tier 4 but I could be wrong.. I never actually got the meaning of the tier system anyway (yes, n00b is my middle name :smallamused:)


So, in the last few sessions, where we mostly roleplaying, I've come to love my character... He is really into chaos!

At the next one we're expecting a battle with some kind of undead(?) paladin..

I can't wait.. :smallsmile:

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I think warlocks got the shaft in the tier placement, they're a lot more versitile than warblades and can fill any party role fairly well with just a little optimization and they're never in a situation where their abilities are useless unless the character deliberately overspecalized their invocation choices. It also takes a whole lot of hoops and cheese for one to break the game so to me they're coming off as a strong tier 3.

They really aren't more versatile than Warblades. Warblades can roflstomp their damage output without half trying, with superior battlefield control options, as well as greater utility. They can also change out their abilities far easier to have an entirely different suite of responses.

So yea... Tier 4 is about right. Fairly strong Tier 4, but Tier 4 nontheless.

[Snowbluff]

They really aren't more versatile than Warblades. Warblades can roflstomp their damage output without half trying, with superior battlefield control options, as well as greater utility. They can also change out their abilities far easier to have an entirely different suite of responses.

So yea... Tier 4 is about right. Fairly strong Tier 4, but Tier 4 nontheless.
Yeah, but Warlocks do get some really nice BFC though. Chilling Tentacles or Invisibility + Eldritch Chain Noxious Blast + Staggering Strike makes for some major action loss.

[Malroth]

Tier 6: Can't do anything or their basic mechanic doesn't work (soul knife, commoner)
Tier 5: Sometimes has a workable trick but is useless most of the time
(fighter, Monk)
Tier 4: Is good at one thing but is useless when that trick is inappropiate (Healer, Ranger, where the list says warlocks are)
Tier 3: Is good at several roles and is still useful even when those roles aren't called for usually this is concidered the ideal tier for balance
(Warblade, Factotum, Pale Necromancer)
Tier 2: Can be very good at all roles some of the time and can break the game if they build too strongly in a paticular direction
(Sorcerer, Psion)
Tier 1: Can be impossible to beat in all ways at all times, can break the game in several ways sometimes without trying
(Wizard, Archivist)

[Snowbluff]

I think the most interesting feature for Warlock's Tier consideration is the Imbue Item ability. It's potentially much better than Warlock's other features.