Does DDO count as 3.5?

[silverwolfer]

Does DDO count as close to 3.5 that you can get?

Am sort of interested in the game but new, so thought to ask the only 3.5 folks who may actually play that may know,or help me with it lol.

[toapat]

Yes and no, You have to have alot of foreknowledge of what you are doing beforehand, but it has redistributed the big numbers problem to over a different range. It is more balanced then 3.5 because of how they have over time moved away from 3.5, such as increasing the base armor values over time, granting mechanics for increasing the damage of spells and damage, and giving everyone class features over a longer range of levels.

pretty much every normal offender of 3.5 core is gone, with casters actually having the problem of immense power, limited resources, summon monster is nigh useless, and trapping is needed.

It is advised to put some money into the game to get Delera's Tomb, Necropolis/Litany of the Dead part 4, Vault of Night, and Vale of Twilight no matter what. Avoid Argonessan server because there is currently a huge problem of people going through reincarnated lives.

[Ravens_cry]

I would say, given all the changes made, it counts as d20, with definite 3.X leanings.

[toapat]

I would say, given all the changes made, it counts as d20, with definite 3.X leanings.

It is more like the OGL then D20.

The thing that sucks is that the trends the game follows has lead to it being very difficult to actually get through the low levels to content like gianthold where e XP is plentiful and the loot is amazing.

[T.G. Oskar]

Actually, getting from levels 1 to 4 is really easy, and 4-7 a bit difficult. It's getting through 7-12 (which would be mid-levels) that's the problem.

As it stands, DDO is not exactly 3.5 because the target numbers are much higher. It's as close to OGL as, say, Castles & Crusades or OSRIC (which use the 3.5 OGL to replicate 1st/2nd Edition rules), but instead has a focus towards typical MMO numbers while keeping some of the stuff from 3.5 somewhat intact.

It does wonders with Monks (they're actually useful), but classes remain mostly the same. Without Divine Metamagic, Clerics aren't as good melee'ers (though they do pretty fine in a pinch with heavy armor, a heavy shield and the deity's favored weapon or a stout heavy mace, and get buffed), but healing is actually a necessity here, so they're quite useful. Favored Souls are the superior melee options, though (as they combine Clerics' buffs with the Weapon Focus/Specialization lines gained as enhancements), particularly if you play as a Warforged and become a Bladesworn. Mages still dominate (Wizards in particularly, doubly so if they specialize in Necromancy and/or Illusion and deploy Wail of the Banshee and Weird), melee classes only survive if their damage output is insane (Barbs seek insane damage, Fighters look to boost their modifiers for trip or stun, and most go Cleave/Great Cleave with this recent update for Momentum Swing for short-range AoE heavy damage). Paladins are still suffering, and so do Rangers and Rogues, being often considered the classes that need a definite revamp (and Rangers got some love recently, but they're emphasizing the archery aspect).

As you can see, even if you don't understand much about this, you can detect a few key differences, since Fighters and Barbarians can actually be useful in-game, even though Mages still dominate. Don't go thinking on the tabletop Tiers, because they're slightly different (Mages are still top-tier, meleers are still bottom tier, but the actual positions in the middle shuffle a bit). You could use some of the builds from tabletop as very, VERY general examples on how to build, save for a few exceptions (Paladins and Rangers don't need 14 Wis to cast spells, as they can use magic items to temporarily boost their stat to cast spells, for example).

[silverwolfer]

Hmm interesting, thank you all

Anyone up for a small run together while I break my teeth in on it.

[HunterOfJello]

How good is the end-game content of DDO? How long would a person want to continue playing when they're already level 20?


(I also assume that they're pathetically weak compared to a level 20 group in 3.5)

[ArcturusV]

Probably really weak. Only time I messed with DDO I tried to roll up a Rogue. Stealth doesn't work. Sneak attacks doesn't work. There was sadness.

[Morph Bark]

It is advised to put some money into the game to get Delera's Tomb, Necropolis/Litany of the Dead part 4, Vault of Night, and Vale of Twilight no matter what. Avoid Argonessan server because there is currently a huge problem of people going through reincarnated lives.

Are those all the expansions?

And reincarnated lives? I haven't heard about that bit of DDO before. What is it?

[chainlink]

Not a MMORPG guy but i tried WoW(1-40) and waaay back in the day tried EQ(don't remember).

DDO isn't terrible from my limited experience in MMORPG's, but unless you cycle alts for whatever the credit is (can't remember) you end up in a levelling deadzone as a poster before me mentioned.

Is it the same?

No.

Is it familiar?

Yes.

Does optimizing there have anything to do with here?

No.

Strength of chars?

Way weaker way stronger. You know. Video game stuff. Way more longevity, less I change the Universe. More numbers. Moved on to GW2 to experience the mmo thing. Fun. jumping, dodging, timing. Cool. From a newb standpoint anyways.

[TuggyNE]

How good is the end-game content of DDO? How long would a person want to continue playing when they're already level 20?

Well, my highest-level character is 16, so take this with a few grains of salt, but friends and acquaintances have enjoyed 21-25 content quite a bit.


(I also assume that they're pathetically weak compared to a level 20 group in 3.5)

Numerically, they're a lot stronger (almost any DDO build can one-shot almost any 3.5 character); in terms of actual options, a lot weaker.


Probably really weak. Only time I messed with DDO I tried to roll up a Rogue. Stealth doesn't work. Sneak attacks doesn't work. There was sadness.

... what? I can tell you with confidence that sneak attacks work quite well, and so does hiding. Of course, hiding after being spotted once is generally ineffective, but you get used to that.

It's also annoying that spells don't make attack rolls (so no sneak attack scorching ray), but that's just one of those things that happens.


Are those all the expansions?

No, just a few of the top ones. There's quite a lot of adventure packs.


And reincarnated lives? I haven't heard about that bit of DDO before. What is it?

Lesser reincarnation lets you trade out several levels in your current build, change stats, change skill points and feats, etc. Greater reincarnation lets you do roughly the same, except I believe it goes for all the levels. True reincarnation lets you change race and get a bonus to stats (and a free feat you can't get any other way), but you have to start from level 1 again.

[sonofzeal]

Hmm interesting, thank you all

Anyone up for a small run together while I break my teeth in on it.
I'm on the Orien server. The game eases you in nicely, and if you take a class that starts with a bit of healing then you should be able to futz around through Korthos by yourself. You can always buy Hirelings to help you along.

Once you're in Stormreach, send me a mail ("Semunite") or post your name here so I can add you.



("Healing" options include... Cleric, Bard... Favoured Soul and Druid if you unlock them... Monks who take the Light path... any Halfling with the "Lesser Dragonmark of Healing" feat... and if you pay to unlock Warforged then Sorcs, Wizards, and Artificers count too. You can solo Korthos without healing, but it definitely increases your ability to play around and )



How good is the end-game content of DDO? How long would a person want to continue playing when they're already level 20?

(I also assume that they're pathetically weak compared to a level 20 group in 3.5)
Depends on your standards, I guess.

When I started, the tendency was for lvl 20 characters to "True Reincarnate" rather than stay at 20. With TR you start back at lvl 1 with what amounts to a new character, but BETTER this time. You get a better pointbuy the first couple times, and each "past life" gives passive benefits and unlocks feats you can take. For example, every Ranger life you've gone through (up to three) gives you +2 damage with ranged weapons and +2 to all elemental resistances, and unlocks a feat that gives +2 Spot and lets you cast Barkskin on yourself regardless of your current class. There's also a special bonus if you have a character who's gotten to 20 with every single class.

Point is, it's not really a question of getting to 20 and then staying there and then you're done.

Of course, now there's a whole Epic Level system that I haven't played with and can't claim to understand. There's a bunch of epic level quests now, and running Epics on Elite is apparently pretty darn brutal even for the optimizers. I hear a lot about the struggles to get materials and whatnot together, so I figure there's stuff there to entertain. And, of course, the TR option is always present.

I'm probably going to go the TR route. I want to shoot for completionist, even though that's pretty pie-in-the-sky from where I'm sitting right now. Still, it's something to shoot for, and the whole point of MMOs is the process rather than the result. DDO is better than most in that it's got a tone of variety and flexibility - combat is varied and interesting, there's way more to questing than just combat, and you've got pretty much all the character creation flexibility you've come to know and love in 3.5e. Multiclassing's in, you can choose your own skills and feats and ability scores (not to mention race), and there's an "enhancement" system that lets you customize even further. There's a lot of opportunity to screw yourself over by taking, say, Bard/Ranger/Wizard with no build plan, but I've also seen people do something like that and pull it off strangely well, so w/e.

It's a fun game, I recommend it.

[sonofzeal]

Probably really weak. Only time I messed with DDO I tried to roll up a Rogue. Stealth doesn't work. Sneak attacks doesn't work. There was sadness.
Sneak attack does work, it's just a bit harder to pull off. The monster needs to not be "aggro'd" on you, which is difficult to accomplish while soloing. My first character was a Rogue though, and I can attest that Sneak Attacks aren't broken, they just aren't bread-and-butter, you'll-get-this-on-every-attack type things.

[Morph Bark]

Lesser reincarnation lets you trade out several levels in your current build, change stats, change skill points and feats, etc. Greater reincarnation lets you do roughly the same, except I believe it goes for all the levels. True reincarnation lets you change race and get a bonus to stats (and a free feat you can't get any other way), but you have to start from level 1 again.

:smalleek: So basically, it offers a power boost in stats and an extra feat, at the measly cost of going back to level 1? Can this be done several times? How accessible and available is reincarnation?

[sonofzeal]

:smalleek: So basically, it offers a power boost in stats and an extra feat, at the measly cost of going back to level 1? Can this be done several times? How accessible and available is reincarnation?
As I mentioned in my post - yes, this can be done repeatedly. Individual classes stack three times (a spellcaster with three Wizard past lives gets +6 on Spell Penetration, for example), and there's a bonus if you have a single character with EVERY past life.

Of course, your pointbuy caps out at a certain point no matter what you do, and many past lives are rather niche (+6 spell pen may rock on a Wizard, but won't exactly do much if your next life is a Barbarian). Still, yes, a character with many past lives is going to have an edge over an equivalent character without. It's not god-mode, but it's notable.

[Mytallest]

I've sunk countless hours into it, but quit playing recently. I loved the various different levels of customization, but that's a huge downfall to new players. It's really easy to throw a character together, then realize that you messed something up, and have a practically useless 10th level character. Anyways I'll give a quick rundown of each class.

Barbarians: This was my main. You can afford to dump everything but Str and Con. Int might be your 3rd stat if you want a couple more skill points. AC doesn't really matter,Isince most enemies have crazy attack bonuses. I've never seen a 2wf barb that was anything above par due to the number of feats you need to do it properly. Focus on HP, DR and Str and you won't be disappointed.

Bards: In my opinion, they're the most varied class. A guildy of mine only rolled Bards, and he had 4 or more that had completely different party roles. They make decent healers down one path: I've seen one that could solo heal one of the higher level raids; between their nearly unresistable performance DC's and the right spec'ing they have some fantastic crowd control; my pure DPS Barbarian grouped with a couple that could outkill him up until about 17; my own bard was very well loved by casters because he increased their DC's and regenerated their spell points; and no matter how you build them, they offered some of the best buffs. What stats you choose to put where is dependant on what role you're trying to fill. My Spellsinger was something like 10 10 16 10 8 18, but Warchanters have much more MAD.

Clerics: If you plan on building your Cleric as anything other than a healer, you're probably doing it wrong. They have decent non healing spells, between command, blade barrier, and cometfall, but your primary role will be healer, or good luck finding a group. High Wis, decent Cha and Con, everything else is secondary. I never got my own to any decent level, but all of the ones that tried to set out as a backup healer/primary something else have been pretty bad. If you want DPS or tanking, the evoker Favored soul is the way to go.

Rogues: I have seen anyone out DPS a well built Halfling Assassin Rogue. High Dex & Int are your focuses, 2wf is necessary, keep Disable Device, Search, and Spot maxed, Stealth skills are nice for pulling individual enemies.

Artificers: This class has some of the nicest solo capabilities. They have high DPS with their repeating crossbows, great self healing, a decent pet, trapfinding, and excellent buffs. Keep your Int and Dex high, invest in ranged weapon feats like Point Blank Shot, Precise and Improved Precise Shot, and keep Disable Device, Search, and Spot maxed out.

Wizards vs. Sorcerers: If you want DPS go for Sorc, if you want crowd control, instant death, full spell range, feat selection, and earlier spell levels go for Wizard. Either class can learn thesame spells the other has, but there's a difference between being proficient in a weapon and good with it. High casting stat is all that's really necessary. Consider taking Insightful Reflexes if you're a Wizard, and and Force of Personality if you're a Sorcerer. Make sure you learn the 1at level spell that gives you weapon proficiency on whatever weapon you're wielding or you won't be doing much til 5 or 6.

I'll wrap it up with a couple last words: FVS's and Druids are only decent healers when set down next to a Cleric, but both classes are great in other roles, and manageable as healers; Rangers shine best as archers, I've heard; Paladins are the best endgame tanks ever since the expansion, I've heard; and never set your lower than 14 or you're going to have a bad time.

[Mytallest]

Never set your *Con lower than 14. Sorry, typing from my phone.

[sonofzeal]

AC doesn't really matter,Isince most enemies have crazy attack bonuses.
This used to be true, but from what I heard they fixed it recently. AC now scales better with level, and enemy attack bonuses and ACs have been rebalanced themselves.


Clerics: If you plan on building your Cleric as anything other than a healer, you're probably doing it wrong. They have decent non healing spells, between command, blade barrier, and cometfall, but your primary role will be healer, or good luck finding a group. High Wis, decent Cha and Con, everything else is secondary. I never got my own to any decent level, but all of the ones that tried to set out as a backup healer/primary something else have been pretty bad. If you want DPS or tanking, the evoker Favored soul is the way to go.
I played a Cleric for the longest time, and I have to disagree. With heavy armor and a broad array of defensive buffs, I was able to pretty much tank straight through most encounters. Healing was almost secondary - I wasn't taking much damage in the first place, so RSoP bursts took care of most of my healing needs just fine. One level of Fighter for enhancements and proficiencies, followed by the standard array of melee buff spells at my disposal, and I could solo just fine.

IMO the primary advantage of the Cleric is the defensive spells. Freedom of Movement, Resist Energy, Nightshield, and Shield of Faith result in avoiding most damage in the first place. And I'll rate long-duration protections above reactive healing any day.

[GreenSerpent]

Aye. Learn from me who made a huge mistake and built a 12 CON character (Rogue as well, so no nice big HD).

When you're fighting Living Meteor Swarms, Paragon Kobolds, legions upon legions of Bearded Devils and Orthons... you'll appreciate high HP. No level 20 character should have under 300 HP, and preferably not under 400. Some Paladins can get 1000+.

[Mytallest]

This used to be true, but from what I heard they fixed it recently. AC now scales better with level, and enemy attack bonuses and ACs have been rebalanced themselves.

Sorry, I meant didn't matter for Barbarians. I'm pretty sure that there's no way to get an AC tank Barbarian without sacrificing too much damage. As for the Cleric thing, I can definitely see that if you're primarily soloing, but in a group, I feel like you'd be outclassed by a Paladin as far as tanking goes, but like I said, I never put too much time into mine.

[Mytallest]

Aye. Learn from me who made a huge mistake and built a 12 CON character (Rogue as well, so no nice big HD).

When you're fighting Living Meteor Swarms, Paragon Kobolds, legions upon legions of Bearded Devils and Orthons... you'll appreciate high HP. No level 20 character should have under 300 HP, and preferably not under 400. Some Paladins can get 1000+.

I hear ya. My first character was a 10 Con 2hf Paladin. So full of fail.

[Mytallest]

Aye. Learn from me who made a huge mistake and built a 12 CON character (Rogue as well, so no nice big HD).

When you're fighting Living Meteor Swarms, Paragon Kobolds, legions upon legions of Bearded Devils and Orthons... you'll appreciate high HP. No level 20 character should have under 300 HP, and preferably not under 400. Some Paladins can get 1000+.

I hear ya. My first character was a 10 Con 2hf Paladin. So full of fail. I TR'd him into a barb, and by 20, before the expansion, he was just shy of 1k HP.

[Ghen]

I played DDO for a VERY short time (just for a few minutes). After I realized that the combat wasn't turn based, I quit. I don't feel like you can really call a game 3.5 if it isn't even turn based.

[toapat]

Are those all the expansions?

And reincarnated lives? I haven't heard about that bit of DDO before. What is it?

1: No, those are the content packs absolutely needed to get to level 20 without wanting to hang yourself or going insane


:smalleek: So basically, it offers a power boost in stats and an extra feat, at the measly cost of going back to level 1? Can this be done several times? How accessible and available is reincarnation?

2: Depends on your San score. mine is too low (somewhere between 40-60 IRL, manifesting as mild paranoia and delusions of grandure) to restart my paladin as a level 1. Its pretty easy, if you put in the effort to earn raid tokens to buy a True Druidic heart of wood, it can be done multiple times, with characters going from 28 to 34 pointbuy (32 if drow), and 36 on the next time, Zeal covered the True Reincarnation Past Life feats well though.


Never set your *Con lower than 14. Sorry, typing from my phone.

It is 14 before modifiers. I have a TWF paladin with base 12, shes one of the meatiest toons who doesnt have Epic Destinies.

[only1doug]

it is (or used to be, i hvaen't played for a while) possible to grind out enough store points to buy the packs without spending money by grinding favour on all servers, basically you create a new character on each server and run through all the low level quests on the hardest difficulty (over and over and over again, gets kinda dull if you don't like the low level quests), this gave enough store points to buy an expansion pack, which you then grind on all servers for more favor for more store points etc. deleting a char and running through again for 100 favor was pretty common (i kinda enjoyed it). but I have't played for awhile and I also had a bonus of 5000 store points from transferring from the euro servers with an original account.

(when I first played max level was 10, then I had children and playtime disappeared)

[toapat]

it is (or used to be, i hvaen't played for a while) possible to grind out enough store points to buy the packs without spending money by grinding favour on all servers, basically you create a new character on each server and run through all the low level quests on the hardest difficulty (over and over and over again, gets kinda dull if you don't like the low level quests), this gave enough store points to buy an expansion pack, which you then grind on all servers for more favor for more store points etc. deleting a char and running through again for 100 favor was pretty common (i kinda enjoyed it). but I have't played for awhile and I also had a bonus of 5000 store points from transferring from the euro servers with an original account.

(when I first played max level was 10, then I had children and playtime disappeared)

I only sugested buying expensive but valuable packs for actual money, as well as epic destinies, grinding can be done for everything else afterwards because there is enough revenue in a favor grind to make up for it. TRing is also a good way to get more free turbine points.

[only1doug]

I only sugested buying expensive but valuable packs for actual money, as well as epic destinies, grinding can be done for everything else afterwards because there is enough revenue in a favor grind to make up for it. TRing is also a good way to get more free turbine points.

Yeah, grinding for points to buy all the expansions could be kinda dull, another approach might also be to buy 1 months worth of premium play to try out the various expansions (especially as having been a premium customer has an advantage over having always been FtP) but I'd have a while of FtP first, to see what you like.

Some good assistance is available on the DDO Wiki, including some newbie guides (http://ddowiki.com/page/Newbie_guide).

the (unofficial) DDO Wiki is very useful.

Part of the reason that my playing dropped off was that I found it difficult to get regular groups, PU groups can be very unreliable / difficult to find for a european player.

[sonofzeal]

Due to the way the game is structured, it's very advantageous to spend at least a little bit of real money right near the beginning. Spending any money at all permanently upgrades you from "free" to "premium" which has a few advantages, and those up-front points can be used to unlock Adventure Packs which gain you more favour which gains you more Turbine Points which can unlock even more Adventure Packs, on and on. It's a nice boost up.

I recommend making a character, playing around a while to see how you like the game, and if you decide you're hooked then lay down either $20 or $35 depending on your budget, for 1600 or 3150 TP respectively. Playing without that is possible - I know people who levelled to 20 without it - but it'll reduce the grind significantly and make the game more fun. You get more xp so it's easier to level, more TP to unlock more packs, more specialized gear, and more Favour rewards.

[Hiro Protagonest]

After I realized that the combat wasn't turn based, I quit.

...

...

...

No comment.

[toapat]

I have to say, most instances of Free to Play are Free to Pay, not actually free. While DDO itself is not the most liberal of such (League comes to mind as one much more free), it still allows you to earn the points and to earn the content. Something other free to plays dont do. They dont sell actual power, although they did give out (boobytrapped, as i learned the hard way) power to anyone who pre-ordered Menance of the Underdark.

[sonofzeal]

I have to say, most instances of Free to Play are Free to Pay, not actually free. While DDO itself is not the most liberal of such (League comes to mind as one much more free), it still allows you to earn the points and to earn the content. Something other free to plays dont do. They dont sell actual power, although they did give out (boobytrapped, as i learned the hard way) power to anyone who pre-ordered Menance of the Underdark.
Agreed... partially.

I do like how you can earn the same points you get from paying just by earning favour. In theory, if you play long enough you can literally get everything without any real-world money changing hands.

On the other hand, getting rolling on that is a bit hard. A few convenient packs will make it much easier to hit those big favour numbers for bigger bonuses. Not to mention getting enough xp to level easily. You can go without, by careful xp management and grinding favor on multiple servers, but that's a bit too high on the Sphexishness meter for me which is why I recommend a single moderate one-time payment to help get you rolling.

Which, honestly, is fair game - I've gotten more enjoyment out of DDO than most games I had to pay for upfront, so I can hardly fault them here. It's still my choice how much I want to give them, and there's no firm dividing line, no point beyond which I MUST pay.

On a scale of "highway robbery" to "omg free everything forever", I'd call this a "well met and fair deal". Which is getting increasingly rare these days, what with prohibitive DRM all over the place.

Oh, and the game itself is quite good. That probably counts for something too. :smalltongue:

[Morph Bark]

Whelp, I'm downloading DDO as we speak, as it's peaked my interest. Is there a thread for it in Gaming yet?

[sonofzeal]

Whelp, I'm downloading DDO as we speak, as it's peaked my interest. Is there a thread for it in Gaming yet?
There... used to be a whole series of them. Then I got addicted to LoL and left them for a year or so, and now they seem to be gone. The wider DDO community seems to be somewhat smaller than it used to be, which is a shame, but it's still solidly profitable last I heard, and I doubt it'll go anywhere any time soon. A good sign of that is they're still releasing updates and new content. And... me seeing less people around may not mean much, since I'm on Korean time now when I used to be on EST.

Anyway, no, AFAIK there isn't a thread for it currently, but if you make one I'll post in it!

[GreenSerpent]

Words of advice from me, the player of Yallin the Rogue on Ghallanda server.

1. If this is your first life, do not play a rogue.
2. Except an Assassin Rogue, and even then be careful.
3. Do not have less than 14 CON (this is why I recommend a SAD class for your first life). Otherwise you will die a lot.
4. The DDO wiki is very, very helpful.
5. Traps can be a OHKO if you run right into them - the damage output is very high. If your rogue says STOP, stop.
6. Never underestimate how much power a Haste spell gives (and how little a Slow does).
7. Oozes are the most annoying creatures in the game. Especially the Aspect of Juiblex. Let your mage deal with them.
8. Khopeshes are the most powerful 1-H weapon in the game for anyone with the feat slot to spare (TWF Fighters and Rangers especially).
9. Undead appear at almost all points in the game. Hence Favored Enemy (Undead) is the most optimal first choice for Rangers.
10. Keep an item of Underwater Action around once you hit level 10+. It's useful.
11. Do not get blown off the top of the Chronoscope, no matter what.
12. If you're playing an arcane caster, TAKE WEB AS A 2ND LEVEL SPELL.

If anyone wants to do some adventuring together give me a shout! YOU HAVE MY KHOPESH. AND MY BOW. AND MY DEADLY FIRE TRAP.

[only1doug]

I tried to update my DDO last night, it wouldn't connect to the server so I have re-installed.

I dunno if it worked yet, I'll try again tonight tomorrow night when the kids have gone to bed.

Anyone likely to be playing at about 21:00 gmt?

If so which server?

(I think I have a L4 char on every server, I did do some favor runs a while back)


Edit: Haha, I forgot it was gaming night tonight...

[TuggyNE]

3. Do not have less than 14 CON (this is why I recommend a SAD class for your first life). Otherwise you will die a lot.

To all your other excellent advice, I would add one thing you seem to have somehow forgotten: DO NOT HAVE LESS THAN 14 CON.

That is all. (No, seriously, that's basically rule #1.)

[GreenSerpent]

To all your other excellent advice, I would add one thing you seem to have somehow forgotten: DO NOT HAVE LESS THAN 14 CON.

That is all. (No, seriously, that's basically rule #1.)

Slight change:

DO NOT HAVE LESS THAN 14 CON, PREFERABLY MORE IF POSSIBLE.
Casters should start with a 16, 17, or 18 in their primary stat (I'd suggest 17 or 16 simply because low PB = those points can go elsewhere to improve survivability).

[Morph Bark]

I'm in the Central European timezone, so 21:00 GMT is easily possible for me.

For anyone who hasn't yet seen it, there's a thread now (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14666892). Any advice given here should probably be repeated there. :smallwink:

[GreenSerpent]

And I'm on GMT, so fine for me!

Now I just need to check my internet connection... and possibly re-acquire my VIP.

OOOH. Very important. Bravery Streaks (completing dungeons for the first time on Hard or Elite difficulty) can give 50% more XP each dungeon!

[only1doug]

And I'm on GMT, so fine for me!

Now I just need to check my internet connection... and possibly re-acquire my VIP.

OOOH. Very important. Bravery Streaks (completing dungeons for the first time on Hard or Elite difficulty) can give 50% more XP each dungeon!

provided someone can unlock the dungeon for you at that difficulty...

[TuggyNE]

provided someone can unlock the dungeon for you at that difficulty...

This is is what organizing groups is for. :smallwink:

Speaking of, I should see if I can get back into things with y'all....

[sonofzeal]

Actually... I think with the Heroic Durability, the cheapness of +6 Con items, and the power of Toughness and related enhancements... starting Con score isn't all that important. A lvl 10 Human XYZ who takes Toughness and the related enhancements has +43 hp, and can probably have a +6 Con item already for another +30. Compared to that, 12 vs 14 Con really doesn't seem like that big a deal. For a Barbarian, sure, definitely pump it. But for a heavy armor class, ever since they fixed the AC curves? Meh, Con is nice, but if you've got access to healing (and most should, either from themselves or allies or hirelings), then you're rarely going to be running out of the hp you have unless your healing's running dry, which is a totally unrelated problem.

If the extra stat points from boosting your Con by 2 could have helped keep your healing from running dry in the first place, that's probably going to save your life more often than the extra little buffer.

[GreenSerpent]

provided someone can unlock the dungeon for you at that difficulty...

Or you happen to have a VIP who can open any dungeon on Elite...

[vartan]

If anyone plays on Orien or Sarlona lmk. I think I'm the default leader of a defunct guild I'm sarlona by now. Mail or add Meriwise on Orien or Torabar on Sarlona.

[only1doug]

I logged on, all the last played's were "2 years ago" except for 1 of "1 year ago".

[Asteron]

All of this makes me want to play DDO...

I played once but quit after about an hour and never played again. That was years ago though.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Agreed... partially.

I do like how you can earn the same points you get from paying just by earning favour. In theory, if you play long enough you can literally get everything without any real-world money changing hands.

On the other hand, getting rolling on that is a bit hard. A few convenient packs will make it much easier to hit those big favour numbers for bigger bonuses. Not to mention getting enough xp to level easily. You can go without, by careful xp management and grinding favor on multiple servers, but that's a bit too high on the Sphexishness meter for me which is why I recommend a single moderate one-time payment to help get you rolling.

Which, honestly, is fair game - I've gotten more enjoyment out of DDO than most games I had to pay for upfront, so I can hardly fault them here. It's still my choice how much I want to give them, and there's no firm dividing line, no point beyond which I MUST pay.

On a scale of "highway robbery" to "omg free everything forever", I'd call this a "well met and fair deal". Which is getting increasingly rare these days, what with prohibitive DRM all over the place.

Oh, and the game itself is quite good. That probably counts for something too. :smalltongue:

Indeed. If you want to make money (which you have to, just to keep the servers running) off your MMO, then there are three ways.

1. Pay once. This is how Guild Wars 2 does it. Standard price for a high-end game, maybe some more, then you can play it.

2. Pay for time. Whether monthly subscription or time bought in chunks, this is how WoW and EVE does it.

3. Microtransactions. This is what DDO is doing. There are two types of this, good, and bad.
Good: Money instead of time. Planetside 2 is slow to give you upgrades. You can pay money to gain more XP for stuff, or use it in place of Certification points to purchase items. Unless I'm wrong, this is also what LoL does.
Bad: Pay to win. Things bought with real-life money cannot be bought with in-game currency, and provide direct power boosts (as opposed to cosmetics). Say the maximum damage of an item you can get in-game is 100. Then they allow you to spend ten bucks and get a weapon that has the same accuracy and speed and all that, but a damage of 120. That's pay to win.

The third is often put into a game with one of the first two, simply because it works.

[ArcturusV]

There's a third option on the Micro-transactions. Take what World of Tanks does, where you can pay for stuff that you can't otherwise get... (excepting for rewards from their regular contests or Clan War success), but none of the "otherwise can't get" items are actually high end, powerful items. In a game where you have 10 levels, the highest level you can buy is only 8. And any level 10 will trounce a level 8. Nor can you level from that level 8 you bought, into anything else. Unless you spend time to get XP, and money to convert that XP into a proper tank line. Which means you effectively did everything a guy who normally leveled did, AND payed. The only difference is that you didn't have to slog through the tanks you didn't think were fun because Low Level tanks a wholly different dynamic.

[Ghen]

All of this makes me want to play DDO...

I played once but quit after about an hour and never played again. That was years ago though.

Do you remember why you quit?

[Douglas]

I just looked over the Past Life Feats (http://ddowiki.com/page/Past_Life_Feats), and my first reaction was "holy crap, it's too bad you can't formally hire on as a triple-druid's servant!"

Even without that impossible abuse, you can stack up some quite significant stuff. Level 1 cleric Turning as a level 7? Can you say "dusted zombies"?

I'm not sure I want to know how much play time getting them takes, though. Especially Completionist.

[silverwolfer]

comparable to getting a wow character to level 80

[toapat]

comparable to getting a wow character to level 80

minor error with that: its more like getting 50 WoW characters to 80

[sonofzeal]

minor error with that: its more like getting 50 WoW characters to 80
...don't you mean 12?

[TuggyNE]

I'm not sure I want to know how much play time getting them takes, though. Especially Completionist.

All of it.

[toapat]

...don't you mean 12?

no, i mean 50 characters, because the time for 1-80 is about that needed for 1-8 in DDO

(level 1-70 record for WoW in TBC was 8 hours (it would be about 8 hours for 1-80 now because of reduced XP requirements in WoW for leveling from 20-60), 1-20 in DDO was on a first life though, a 5th or more lifer takes twice the total original xp)

[sonofzeal]

no, i mean 50 characters, because the time for 1-80 is about that needed for 1-8 in DDO

(level 1-70 record for WoW in TBC was 8 hours (it would be about 8 hours for 1-80 now because of reduced XP requirements in WoW for leveling from 20-60), 1-20 in DDO was on a first life though, a 5th or more lifer takes twice the total original xp)
I don't think that's a fair comparison though. Powergrinding speedruns depend largely on manipulating certain aspects of the mechanics, and bear little resemblance to the normal gaming experience. DDO, for instance, has a fairly stiff "Power-Levelling Penalty" for adventuring with higher level characters. This would significantly lengthen the speedrun time, without being a significant factor in normal runs.

DDO Completionist speedrun times may be 50x WoW's 1-80 speedrun time, but I suspect the normal playthrough time of going 1-20 in DDO is actually somewhat shorter than going 1-80 in WoW. Especially if you get an XP Tome, which should probably be assumed for any Completionist hopeful.

[toapat]

I don't think that's a fair comparison though. Powergrinding speedruns depend largely on manipulating certain aspects of the mechanics, and bear little resemblance to the normal gaming experience. DDO, for instance, has a fairly stiff "Power-Levelling Penalty" for adventuring with higher level characters. This would significantly lengthen the speedrun time, without being a significant factor in normal runs.

the 8 hour level 70 run didnt do any dungeons, he did solo gameplay only and did worldkills and quests. Now, he had to of had a friend running him greens from the AH (so he wouldnt drop dead and would be efficient in his gameplay), but no actual help in getting xp or levels.

20% more xp is still not alot when you compare that the guy was doing a crapload of work. But if you are going true completionist, you have a permanent 12 man group to play with and do alot of planning before hand to make sure both groups can get through the content.

[Asteron]

Do you remember why you quit?

No, but it didn't have anything to do with gameplay.

I have a horrible attention span when it comes to video games. I'll play pretty well for a few weeks and then forget about it. I'd rather read a book or watch a tv series than play a video game long term... this is especially true with MMOs. I get a little discouraged when everyone around me is so much better at it.

[Mato]

:smalleek: So basically, it offers a power boost in stats and an extra feat, at the measly cost of going back to level 1? Can this be done several times? How accessible and available is reincarnation?
You can reincarnate NI times, but only three times per class remains useful or 39 times.

However it isn't free. On your second life you need an additional 5% XP per level. Now that doesn't sound like much but it's a stacking value, or 1st lifer needs 1,900,000 XP but a second lifer need 3,139,250 XP. Imagine taking almost three times longer to hit level 20 than your last life. Oh, and 3rd life and up has a 10% cache. Now imagine your only bonus was upgraded from PB32 to PB34 and +20 HP (barb past life). You'll have a more powerful character obviously, but you have been putting off painting your garage for how long because it's too tedious?


Actually... I think ... starting Con score isn't all that important.It is. First of all, Heroic Durability's +20HP wasn't issued because omg bonuses, but because 6 HP at level one gets you killed in one hit. Running Shroud on Elite, with Arritrikos randomized aggro, even a Healer or Wizard could be hit with 300+ Meteor Swarms. And that isn't even "epic", it's 16th level. And you never put your level up points anywhere else than your primary stat, barring TWFs putting a single point into Dex to save PB costs.


If anyone plays on Orien or Sarlona lmk. I think I'm the default leader of a defunct guild I'm sarlona by now. Mail or add Meriwise on Orien or Torabar on Sarlona.I may just hit you on on this. Having been out for a year, starting from level 1 could get me back into the swing of things.

[toapat]

You can reincarnate NI times, but only three times per class remains useful or 39 times.

one problem we are not touching on is how you actually limit yourself severely in terms of what builds you can use on your 40th life. while the paladin and barbarian past lives are nice on anyone, the other 11 passive past lives are all specific, because not every build casts spells, or are casters who rely on DCs that dont care about +3 weapon damage rolls and +6 ranged damage rolls.

[Mato]

The +6 to damage rolls is part of the Ranger past life which also gives a stacking +6 to all elemental Resists I believe.

The degree of usefulness varies, but it's there and often too tiny to care.

[Morph Bark]

However it isn't free. On your second life you need an additional 5% XP per level. Now that doesn't sound like much but it's a stacking value, or 1st lifer needs 1,900,000 XP but a second lifer need 3,139,250 XP. Imagine taking almost three times longer to hit level 20 than your last life. Oh, and 3rd life and up has a 10% cache. Now imagine your only bonus was upgraded from PB32 to PB34 and +20 HP (barb past life). You'll have a more powerful character obviously, but you have been putting off painting your garage for how long because it's too tedious?

Is the 5% cumulative for each life, so that at your eleventh life you'd need +100% XP? :smalleek:

...if it is only a 5% increase, then your math is really off on how much XP you need for a second lifer. :smallconfused:

[toapat]

Is the 5% cumulative for each life, so that at your eleventh life you'd need +100% XP? :smalleek:

...if it is only a 5% increase, then your math is really off on how much XP you need for a second lifer. :smallconfused:

while his math is off, its 5% each life, up until needing 3.1 million to get to 20

[Douglas]

Is the 5% cumulative for each life, so that at your eleventh life you'd need +100% XP? :smalleek:

...if it is only a 5% increase, then your math is really off on how much XP you need for a second lifer. :smallconfused:
It stops going up after the third life, but it's multiplied by your current level. Level 1 takes 5% extra to level up, level 2 takes 10% more, level 3 takes 15% more, level 4 takes 20%, and so on. On the third life it's 10%, 20%, etc. The fourth life and after still only take 10% per level more. Each percentage is applied to the difference between the current level and the next, not to the total.

It works out to 4,378,500 XP required for level 20 on life 3 and after, compared with 1,900,000 on the first life.


while his math is off, its 5% each life, up until needing 3.1 million to get to 20
His math was exactly correct for life #2, he just didn't explain it well enough.

[Seldros]

If you guys like, send me a mail to Obveril at Orien, i can help with setting some basic gears as i have decent crafting levels.

On a side note i'm on my 19th life and are a completionist.

[Lightlawbliss]

I got a lvl 22 (Lightlaw) and a lvl 10 (mylaw) on Sarlona (and chars on other servers I rarely use). Feel free to ask for help if ur on there and need it.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Don't raise the dead.

http://assets1.wordansassets.com/wvc-1335696868/wordansfiles/images/2012/4/29/140353/140353_340.jpg

[Blackhawk748]

I will say i love the fact that in DDO Sorcerers seem to be the better choice over Wizards. Its weird but it makes sense because of the sheer amount of Spell Points the have over Wizards, that and possibly knowing every spell isnt honestly all that important anymore.

[Lightlawbliss]

Don't raise the dead.

http://assets1.wordansassets.com/wvc-1335696868/wordansfiles/images/2012/4/29/140353/140353_340.jpg

woops, only saw the date on the poster before me.

[Hiro Protagonest]

woops, only saw the date on the poster before me.

Yeah, that's fine.