Specific Fantasy Novel Request

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Does anyone know of a fantasy novel that adheres to the following criteria?

Predictable "hero's journey" structure. Preferably with three acts, and an "all is lost" moment at the end of Act Two.
Is long, or even better, part of a trilogy.
Has lots of fight scenes.
Does not require very much brain power.
Is not a parody of the genre described above, but a serious example of it.


Thanks.

[Falling]

Well... I've tried Eragon, seems pretty good. It's a solid title, in my humble opinion, though it's got a bit of a lull-period in the... Second? Or third book. Though it's been a while since I've read it.

Other than that, a book series that is really unique, really cool, and seems to meet all of your criteria is the beyonders series. Look them up, I won't spoil anything, but I love the 2 books so far. It's got so many things that you'd never think of, but really make sense. Plus, it's got the whole "Young heroes going up against a brutal magician emperor who rules all" thing.

[Grinner]

Have you read the Prism Pentad? It's the original novelization of the Dark Sun setting and pretty much follows what you've asked for. Even better, it's composed of five books.

[Gnoman]

Wheel of Time is not quite a straight Hero's Journey, but it's close. It does have more than three "acts", but the narrative structure that you seem to be after is there, and it's long enough for most tastes. The only objection from what you posted is that it's a dense writing style, and it can be a bit difficult to keep track of characters.

[Kitten Champion]

That essentially describes Sanderson's Mistborn, The Riyria Chronicles by Micheal Sullivan, Pullman's His Dark Materials Trilogy, and Kristen Britain's Green Rider series (although extended into 4 books).

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Basically, what I'm looking for is something bad, but engaging. Something I can be cynical towards but still enjoy and be captivated by. Phillip Pullman's His Dark Materials is too "good". Its too original. I find comfort in familiarity and repetition.

[Kitten Champion]

Well, there's the Night Angel Trilogy -- although heroism is often quite anti-heroic at first.

Terry Brooks is pretty much what you want ad nausea.

Chronicles of the Necromancer series by Gail Z. Martin is fairly okay.

Chronicles of Siala by Alexey Pehov is enjoyable heroic fantasy without much depth.

Chronicles of Prydain by Lloyd Alexander, The Haven series by B.V. Larso, and Dennis McKiernan's Dark Tide Series are all pretty mindless heroic fantasies which are readable.

[Serpentine]

Pretty much all of David Eddings stuff that I'm aware of.

Tad Williams' Memory, Sorrow and Thorn series, perhaps. A trilogy of three pretty big books.

I certainly wouldn't call them bad, but Tamora Pierce writes fairly "classic" fantasy, and is easy to devour in no time. Not long, although if you include all of, for example, her Tortall books as one series broken into lots of bits (easy to do) it can be a bit lengthy.

Also wouldn't call them bad, but Raymond E. Feist has good, reasonably "predictably" structured serious fantasy.

[Aotrs Commander]

Pretty much all of David Eddings stuff that I'm aware of.

Not sure that qualifies as "bad" - aside from perhaps the last series, but that was such a one-sided curb-stomp all the way to the third book (never read the forth) that I don't think it really qualfies for the other criterion.

But it certainly qualifies for all the other criterion, and is an easy and very engaging read. (At least in my opinion.) His first four series (Belgariad, Mallorian, Elenium and Tamuli) are some of my favourite books, period.


Tad Williams' Memory, Sorrow and Thorn series, perhaps. A trilogy of three pretty big books.

Four, actually. I've got 'em sitting in the shelf as we speak, though I've only read as far as the third.

The "all is lost" would seem to be coming rather earlier (and more frequently...) than act two, though... (And book two is a bit of a drag. It took me over a year to finish it, given it was unengaging enough thatit wasn't until I went on holiday - where I do 90% of my reading-from-books - that I was able to work through it and get to the better third book.) Not sure I'd qualify it as an "easy" read, though; I find it a bit claggy, to be honest.

[Brewdude]

David Eddings "Belgariad" and "Malloreon" exactly fit the bill. In fact, it's been argued that he wrote the malloreon to see if he could write the exact same series a second time to see if people would catch on and buy it anyway. The plot is so amazingly not the point compared to the interaction between the characters that it tries to get in on the action by talking directly to the characters itself, just so it can start having some relevance.

Yes, I said the plot talks to the characters. A cynic will enjoy the series every bit as much as a wide eyed new reader. The first book is "Pawn of Prophesy".

[otakuryoga]

Does anyone know of a fantasy novel that adheres to the following criteria?


Predictable "hero's journey" structure. Preferably with three acts, and an "all is lost" moment at the end of Act Two. check

Is long, or even better, part of a trilogy. check

Has lots of fight scenes. check

Does not require very much brain power. check

Is not a parody of the genre described above, but a serious example of it. check


check out the Sheepfarmers Daughter trilogy from Elizabeth Moon
only criteria it doesn't meet is your later added one of it being bad

[Morph Bark]

Well, there's the Night Angel Trilogy -- although heroism is often quite anti-heroic at first.

That one is too good for this, as well as too atypical.


Hmmm... Sword of Truth? Forgot the writer. Tad Williams and Terry Brooks are typical examples of this thing though. And maybe the Dragonlance novels.

[Kitten Champion]

That one is too good for this, as well as too atypical.


Hmmm... Sword of Truth? Forgot the writer. Tad Williams and Terry Brooks are typical examples of this thing though. And maybe the Dragonlance novels.

Perhaps I just didn't like it? It is too grim to be generic though.

Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth isn't something I'd recommend to my worst enemy. Although it's seemingly generic as hell with all the elements the OP wants, the anvilicious politicking and the insistence on S&M/rape scenes throughout makes it an increasingly uncomfortable to read.

[erikun]

The Dwarves by Markus Heitz isn't bad, but it does follow the very common fantasy formula you're asking for. It (and the following books) may be worth looking into.

[warty goblin]

Hmmm... Sword of Truth? Forgot the writer. Tad Williams and Terry Brooks are typical examples of this thing though. And maybe the Dragonlance novels.
Sword of Truth isn't fantasy. They're books about important human themes. Like how a chicken is the embodiment of all that is evil, and goats are noble. It also answers such important human questions as:


Should you kick that child in the face so hard it nearly kills them?

Should you torture enemy combatants to death because they killed somebody you like?

Should you brutally kill the non-violent protesters?

Is genocide the only acceptable answer to enemy aggression?

Is the best way to make a stand for freedom to pledge yourself body and soul to a hereditary dictator?

Can a statue instantly convince everyone who sees it that everything about their society is wrong?

Does blood fly around everywhere in ropes?

If you have sex in the astral plane, do you still get to play the virgin card?

Suppose a woman is required to enjoy sex with a man she thinks isn't the love of her life due to plot machinations to flaccid too bear thinking of. Suppose, due to further plot machinations too flaccid to bear thinking of, it turns out that she was banging said love-of-life. Does this mean she cheated? Even if he banged her first?

Are only bad people into kinky sex?

Do the female characters ever not almost get raped?

Is Terry Goodkind writing those bits one handed?

Is it deeply creepy to dedicate a book to its (fictional) main characters?

Is it even creepier he did that twice?

Would burning these books be an insult to fire?


If you answered no to any of the above, you lack moral clarity and should probably just die.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Sword of Truth isn't fantasy. They're books about important human themes. Like how a chicken is the embodiment of all that is evil, and goats are noble. It also answers such important human questions as:


Should you kick that child in the face so hard it nearly kills them?

Should you torture enemy combatants to death because they killed somebody you like?

Should you brutally kill the non-violent protesters?

Is genocide the only acceptable answer to enemy aggression?

Is the best way to make a stand for freedom to pledge yourself body and soul to a hereditary dictator?

Can a statue instantly convince everyone who sees it that everything about their society is wrong?

Does blood fly around everywhere in ropes?

If you have sex in the astral plane, do you still get to play the virgin card?

Suppose a woman is required to enjoy sex with a man she thinks isn't the love of her life due to plot machinations to flaccid too bear thinking of. Suppose, due to further plot machinations too flaccid to bear thinking of, it turns out that she was banging said love-of-life. Does this mean she cheated? Even if he banged her first?

Are only bad people into kinky sex?

Do the female characters ever not almost get raped?

Is Terry Goodkind writing those bits one handed?

Is it deeply creepy to dedicate a book to its (fictional) main characters?

Is it even creepier he did that twice?

Would burning these books be an insult to fire?


If you answered no to any of the above, you lack moral clarity and should probably just die.

Imma go read that.

[warty goblin]

Imma go read that.

You really, really shouldn't. Not just because it's the mental equivalent of herpes - once you've got it it'll be there till the day you die - but it's also immensely tedious.

This is a series which takes nothing happening to entirely new heights. You know those bits in A Feast for Crows where the plot does nothing discernible? There's like eight books in the Sword of Truth where nothing of import happens. Oh there's a BS plot contrivance at the beginning, usually involving Richard, our war criminal dictator-for-freedom deus ex machina on two legs of a hero, getting himself kidnapped. This will be followed by six hundred plus pages of people running around giving long horrible speeches about human dignity and why it's totally necessary to harvest the ears of your enemy or kill anybody who refuses to fight a hopeless battle or whatever other nonsense Goodkind's all hot and bothered about this time. Things will escalate until they look all but impossible for our nominal heroes, and you start getting hopeful at least one of them will die. Then Richard will grunt in a manly fashion and pull a solution directly out of his ass. And everything will go back to almost exactly the way it was at the beginning of the book.

The books that don't follow this template are, if anything, worse. Temple of the Winds may offend common decency, common sense, and be the most pointless waste of good wood pulp this side of TPing your own car, but it's got nothing on a couple of the later atrocities. Naked Empire kinda starts a person thinking maybe Mein Kampf got an unfairly bad rap, and it's far from the bottom of this barrel. I'm thinking about that book that features Jenson as the protagonist? The character so insipid that not only did you hope she would get run through an industrial garlic press, but so annoying she actually made you miss Richard?

Sorry for the flashbacks everybody.

And the damnable bit of it all is that they aren't even fun pulpy adventures either. They're tiresome, incoherent screeds puppetted by zero-dimensional characters to the behest of bugger-all stupid plots. And the fight scenes really, really suck.

[Kitten Champion]

*sigh* Warty -- I know you've apologized and all but I had honestly forgotten all of that ya'know. It's been three years, I was over it.

Look, Chainy, I know you're going for bad generic fantasy, but this isn't like the Baldur's Gate madness. Goodkind isn't just a hack who's phoning in his crap to make a quick buck. This man sincerely believes in some seriously vile ****, and is raping the fantasy genera in order to disperse his moral clarity to the universe.

Don't read it for giggles, don't read it because you're bored, all you'll be doing is making yourself hate fantasy literature and the world in which such things can be created.

Honestly I couldn't go near speculative fiction in general for months after, it was like that first Christmas just after you realized that Santa was a lie. The magic, the joy you might feel, it will be that much harder to conjure up again. Perhaps, if this were some mere indie novel discussed by the skinhead book clubs you could simply write it off as your taste of that whole subculture -- but these are best-sellers people actually love. No one will defend Baldur's Gate, not seriously -- Goodkind however, has near prophetic status among his disciples. You'll come to some grim cynical questions about why? Oh, dear god, why?

It's just not a good idea, if Warty wasn't clear enough.

[Grinner]

@warty goblin: If I could reasonably sig your last two posts, I totally would. :smalltongue: I can't stop laughing.

Edit: Geez. My head hurts.

[Flavoricepop]

R.A. Salvatouore's "Exile" 2nd one in the series though. (still a good stand alone as it gives a little back story)

[warty goblin]

*sigh* Warty -- I know you've apologized and all but I had honestly forgotten all of that ya'know. It's been three years, I was over it.

Three years? I haven't touched the damn things since Chainfire came out seven years ago, and they're still rattling around in my head. Chainfire being the one where Kahlan gets pseudo-erased from reality by causing everybody except Richard to forget about her. It was at this point that I realized the series had come as close to a happy ending as possible, since any further developments would no doubt return Kahlan's odious presence to the narrative.


@warty goblin: If I could reasonably sig your last two posts, I totally would. :smalltongue: I can't stop laughing.

Edit: Geez. My head hurts.
Why thank you, and sorry for the headache. You can't even laugh at Goodkind without suffering. Truly he is a scourge upon us.

[oblivion6]

Pretty much all of David Eddings stuff that I'm aware of.

I disagree. I absolutely love everything he wrote(except his non-fantasy stuff). Sure the plots are similiar(not bad by any means) but the characters make me read them atleast twice a year. I don't know how anyone can be a cynic when it comes to him.


Why thank you, and sorry for the headache. You can't even laugh at Goodkind without suffering. Truly he is a scourge upon us.

I actually kinda like his books...

[snoopy13a]

Does anyone know of a fantasy novel that adheres to the following criteria?

Predictable "hero's journey" structure. Preferably with three acts, and an "all is lost" moment at the end of Act Two.
Is long, or even better, part of a trilogy.
Has lots of fight scenes.
Does not require very much brain power.
Is not a parody of the genre described above, but a serious example of it.


Thanks.


Is "every fantasy novel ever written" too specific :smalltongue: ?

I haven't read this Goodkind fellow--although, based on the reviews, I'm a little morbidly curious. Still, if he is this bad, why read more than one of his books?

[Kitten Champion]

Three years? I haven't touched the damn things since Chainfire came out seven years ago, and they're still rattling around in my head. Chainfire being the one where Kahlan gets pseudo-erased from reality by causing everybody except Richard to forget about her. It was at this point that I realized the series had come as close to a happy ending as possible, since any further developments would no doubt return Kahlan's odious presence to the narrative.

I've read through to The Omen Machine -- including the Law of Nines.

Fortunately, I've got a solid meditation technique to suppress unwanted thoughts.



I haven't read this Goodkind fellow--although, based on the reviews, I'm a little morbidly curious. Still, if he is this bad, why read more than one of his books?

I'm a completionist... and a critic. I can't help it.

_____________________

On the topic: I would include David Weber's Wargod series.

Not bad, strictly speaking, but they're very predictable heroic fantasies and mindlessly comforting. Good guy wins, bad guys loses, it's a party.

[Cracklord]

Would burning these books be an insult to fire?
[/LIST]

If you answered no to any of the above, you lack moral clarity and should probably just die.

You allowed them to enter the atmosphere?

I might be breathing them in right now, and it would be your fault.

Then again, you are missing the point of the books, about the fall of a man, and good intentions paving the path to perdition. Zeddicus, in the first book when he was still a somewhat relevant character, pointedly told them that nobody believes themselves to be evil, and that people who only look to the ends are capable of terrible things. Now this would seem to be run of the mill 0.02c of advice from any so-called sage available in any book.

And that would be that. Except they then went and became such parodies of themselves that you have to ask…
Could that be it? Is this actually a very clever deconstruction where people have become exactly what they hate without even realizing it? Is this actually operating on a higher plane then meets the eye? Following Dune's footsteps in deconstructing the idea of the savior and hero, by demonstrating how a man can become fallible and commit atrocities simply by taking a viewpoint and not realizing it's corrupting influence upon him? Is he perhaps simply another demagogue like his father, using the Da'Harans exactly the same way?

I wish I could tell you that is the case. It's not. Not even a little.


I'm a completionist... and a critic. I can't help it.

Amen brother. Preach it!


I disagree. I absolutely love everything he wrote(except his non-fantasy stuff). Sure the plots are similiar(not bad by any means) but the characters make me read them atleast twice a year. I don't know how anyone can be a cynic when it comes to him.

Simple. The characters are charming, except for the damn morality license, the idea that anything they do is justified by the fact that they are the good guys. If they want to torture somebody, then they can, and nobody will mention how stupid that is, because 'they are the good guys'. Particularly if they make a pun, or other witticism.

As per the topic, read the Black Company Series by Glen Cook. I cannot recommend this enough.