Pathfinder questions from a beginner who likes unconventional builds

[Generic NPC]

This post is kind of long, but it's just because I want to fully explain the situation. The paragraph below is a summary of the post, while everything below it goes into further detail.

SUMMARY: I've never played Pathfinder, but I already know that I'd prefer an unconventional versatile character over an optimized focused character, even if my character is weaker than normal. However, I don't want a character who is too weak to do anything but keel over, and Bard sounds too focused on support. Knowing this, what would be the best way to make a balanced character who is like a middle-of-the-road fusion of the major class roles, who can switch roles mid-adventure to aid with whatever function is most needed at the moment? Is it possible to have a character who can deal okay physical damage, has good defenses, and has access to low/mid-level divine and arcane magic? Would an even spread of Ranger/Sorcerer/Oracle work okay for this? Also, would the character still be viable as an awakened animal instead of a humanoid, and thus lacking weapons, armor, and inventory storage? (A shapeshifting druid won't cut it.)

So, now, here's the whole story.

A friend of mine invited me to come with him to a Pathfinder-playing club recently, which will next meet in the near future. Although I've played a boatload of video game RPGs, I've never played a tabletop RPG before, so I've already done some research to familiarize myself with Pathfinder so that I won't be too bothersome when the club meets. Still, I have a few semi-complicated gameplay-related questions (not about basic rules) which could probably only be answered by people with a good bit of experience with Pathfinder.

Basically, these questions ultimately revolve around the fact that I prefer unconventional non-optimal characters, and find standard optimized builds to be kind of boring. I also prefer versatile characters over focused ones. I'm aware that multiclassing in Pathfinder almost always makes a character weaker (especially with spellcasters), but I don't think I'd have much fun playing if I didn't pull off an oddball character build that doesn't cleanly fit into any existing class, even if it is weaker than average. Even so, if my character deals 0 damage to everything and gets one-shotted by weak attacks, it won't be much fun, either, because I'll basically be dead weight for the party. To put it simply, I want to know how crazy and unfocused I can get with my character's build without the character becoming totally worthless.

Here's what I know about the Pathfinder club's playing style. According to my friend, it is casual and welcoming toward beginners, and there is apparently no perma-death. All characters level up at the same time, and newly-made characters are auto-leveled to everyone else's level (which means that my character will not start at Lv.1). Also, a decent number of people come, and they cover pretty much every major role as-is (my friend mentioned a fighter, ranger, rogue, cleric, druid, sorcerer, and another melee class he couldn't remember the name of). All of them are completely straight-classed. I'm not sure whether they have access to advanced rule books or not, and I don't know of any of their house rules.

Now, the kind of character I'd like to build is someone who is like a balanced fusion of most major class types, with no real specialty and almost no focus whatsoever. I won't be the primary damage dealer, tank, healer, or skill user. Instead, I'll act as a supplement to whichever role is most needed at the time. (For anyone who has played Final Fantasy games, I basically want a Red Mage.) I do prefer survivability over offense, however, so high HP and defenses would be nice. In addition, because humanoids are so ubiquitous, I'd like my character to be some sort of awakened animal (probably a kangaroo, because I like them and because they're underused in fantasy). I'm okay with ignoring the species's inherent positive traits for simplicity and balance, because I want to play as an animal for fun and role-playing purposes, not for power. (Oh, and I know that druids can shapeshift into animals, but they're still humanoids in their true forms. For roleplaying purposes, I want a character who is actually an animal.)

Class-wise, from what I've looked up, it seems as though an even spread of Ranger/Sorcerer/Oracle MIGHT work. I'd have the Ranger's high base HP and skill points, I'd get growth in all three kinds of saves (which I don't understand 100% completely, but I assume they're really important), and I'd have access to low-level and mid-level divine and arcane magic. Skill-wise, the Ranger seems to have aspects of both the Fighter and Rogue, so I could hopefully be okay physically and take advantage of some basic out-of-battle skills. Furthermore, if I remember right, both my divine and arcane magic would depend on Charisma, so I wouldn't need to rely as much on boosting my Intelligence and Wisdom (I think). Plus, from what I've read of it, I think I prefer the Sorcerer and Oracle's "fewer spells at a time, but no need to prepare in advance" quality over the Wizard and Cleric's "more spells at a time, but cannot choose on the fly" quality.

Nonetheless, I don't have the practical experience in order to know whether this would work in practice, or whether I'd just end up as a character with weak physical attacks, useless spells, and a propensity for being dead. I'm also not crazy about the idea of playing a Bard, because it sounds like a support class that happens to have some weak physical and magical powers for emergencies, and because a singing kangaroo sounds a little TOO implausible. I guess making a carefully-balanced custom class would be a possibility, but I wouldn't get my hopes up for the GM accepting it, especially from someone who has clearly never played the game before.

Now, in terms of playing as an awakened animal instead of as a humanoid, I kind of doubt that the club has access to the Noble Wild book I've heard mentioned before, because the club sounds kind of casual. With that in mind, I'd be pretty okay with my character essentially being like a human in terms of gameplay, except without access to equipment and items and with the "magical beast" category instead of the "humanoid" category. Without weapons and armor, though, I'd need to make sure that my character can still manage regardless, especially because I don't remember seeing anything about "natural weapon/natural armor bonuses" for animals. Are there any kinds of feats I could use in order to compensate for lacking equipment? I'm already enticed by the idea of the Toughness feat (the one that gives lots of bonus HP), but I'm not sure whether it would be enough. Also, I think I remember hearing that the Monk class gets some bonuses related to that, but I'm worried that multiclassing into a fourth class would be too much.

At any rate, thank you for wading through all of this text, and sorry for the verbosity. Please let me know if you have any advice or suggestions.

[andromax]

This post is kind of long......
I've never played Pathfinder, but I already know that I'd prefer an unconventional versatile character... I've never played a tabletop RPG before...


Edited to show the summary of your post.

You'll find most people here prefer to play unconventional versatile characters so in that regard you'll fit in quite well.

My advice to you, is to make something simple and effective (pure base class of whatever suits your fancy, try rogue if you want to be versatile) for your first couple sessions. You're going to be learning the game, action economy, and all the dynamics that go into tabletop. You'll learn the rest as you play more.

[Edenbeast]

Pathfinder offers class archetypes. They can be found in various books, and many GMs will probably allow whatever can be found on the SRD (or not, always talk to the GM first about your ideas). Anyway, these class archetype already offer alot of variation on the "conventional" class. Honestly I've never found a reason to multiclass in Pathfinder. As for your awakened animal, that's a bit more complex. IF the GM allows something like an awakened animal, then you need to build something. I suggest you have a look at the race builder on the SRD:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/arg-creating-new-races

For the awakened option, here's your kangaroo:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/animals/marsupial-kangaroo
For the awakened spell the rules state:

An awakened animal gets 3d6 Intelligence, +1d3 Charisma, and +2 HD. Its type becomes magical beast (augmented animal). An awakened animal can't serve as an animal companion, familiar, or special mount.
Because those HD are rather powerful I would say skip them and just add the HD of the class you're taking. So you basically roll for higher Intelligence and a marginally better Charisma.
Remember that you are not humanoid so there's alot of things you can't hold/wear. I advice you to stick with one class. I kind of like the idea of Skippy the ranger. The pathfinder ranger can actually choose the natural weapon combat style, so that's just awesomeness!

[TuggyNE]

Because those HD are rather powerful I would say skip them and just add the HD of the class you're taking. So you basically roll for higher Intelligence and a marginally better Charisma.

Uhhh... RHD are almost never as good as class levels, and Magical Beast is no exception. Sure, it's annoying to be saddled with two levels of mostly dead weight, but them's the breaks.

[Feralventas]

So, we're looking for
>Non standard character
>Preferably Animal in form.
>Ability to balance between roles in mid-game.

Wizard, Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer and Oracle CAN do this, but it's complicated to learn how.

Bard can accomplish this quite well, but I see that you're concerned with being foisted into Support/Buff/Healing which I can understand. The Base Bard is indeed very good as a support role, but it's not forced into it.

However, if you feel like being a Little complicated about it, there's an option in PF called an Archetype, which switches out some class features for others. For example the Bard can be a skill and agility focused character (archeologist archetype) a skillful and graceful warrior (Dervish Dancer) or a healer (Songhealer Bard) or Necromancer (Dirge Bard) or even a Politician (Demagogue.)

Bard essentially contains the Thief (lots of skills and features for interactions) Mage (Spells) Fighter (Self-buff for combat) and Cleric (heals and party buffs) already, even if you have a basic bard. The archetypes can help you switch out for something you find more fun, but still allow you to keep to the generalist concept via your spells and equipment.


Rogue is also able to do this, though it's spellcasting aspect comes from using magical devices like Wands and Scrolls via the Use Magic Device skill.



Inquisitor is a Thief/Cleric combo. Magus is a Fighter/Mage combo. Either of these can generalize to a certain degree, though the Inquisitor more easily than the Magus.

The more you describe your preferred character concept, the better, but as far as generalist, you can't do much better than Bard. If you have a specific preference in mind, we can also suggest an Archetype for it.

In the mean time, here's (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard) the Bard entry on the SRD. Archetypes are at the bottom if you want to look 'em up yourself.


EDIT: Forgot the race considerations. Playing an Animal isn't Impossible, but it's likely to be difficult. Stat-wise, I'd advise the Kitsune as a mostly humanoid but easily transferable to vulpine form option. It comes with natural attacks and traits that lend themselves to an animal's approach to combat.

[Baroncognito]

I find myself saying this a lot (possibly just because I like the archetype), but have you looked at the Archaeologist Bard?

It trades Bardic Performance for a scaling bonus to Attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and damage rolls, so it's less focused on support.

Edit: I guess I took too long deciding what I wanted to say and the guy above me beat me to it.

[Crustypeanut]

I do agree with a few above statements - A bard would fit your idea perfectly. While yes, the basic generalized sterotypical bard is all about support, you can easily build one thats not.

I'm particularly fond of the Arcane Duelist Bard myself. This archetype removes the Bardic Knowledge, Well Versed, and Versatile Performance abilities for some fairly useful combat feats including Arcane Strike, Combat Casting, Disruptive, Spellbreaker, and both Penetrating Strike and it's Greater version. The latter 4 are only normally available to Fighters, while all of them increase the Bard's ability to be a better combatant.

He also gains some different performances to use with his Bardic Performance, ones I think are quite nice. First, he can use his Intimidate to counter fear effects, replacing his Counterspell ability. Replacing Suggestion at 6th level, he can use his bardic performance to enhance his, or someone else's, weapon, granting it magical abilities or increasing them. At a higher level, replacing Mass Suggestion, he can do it to multiple weapons.

Then, at medium-high levels, the Arcane Duelist bard gains the ability to cast his spells in heavier armor. Medium at 10th, and Heavy at 16th. And lastly, he even gains a free Arcane Bond (like a Wizard) for a weapon of his choice at 5th level. These latter two abilities replace Lore Master and Jack of all Trades.

==========================

Anyhoo, with this Archetype, you can build a bard thats more martial in aspect, while not sacrificing any of his spellcasting or skill-monkeying what-so-ever. He can eventually act as a front-line tank or heavy hitter, skill-monkey, divine caster, or arcane caster. He certainly won't be as good as any of those types who are focusing on one aspect, but he'll be able to do it all, while not being stuck to the role of support.

Archaeologist is another great archetype, which adds various rogueish abilities instead of martial ones.

[Prophes0r]

I'm torn between answering your question, and giving advice that you dont want to hear.

I'll do a little of both I guess.

For a beginner tabletop player, options can be good and bad. If you have options you CAN use, those are good. If you have a build that RELIES on intelligent use of your options to keep up in multiple fields at once, that is bad.

Here are some considerations that apply to nearly all tabletop games.

Spells are NEARLY always more powerful and more versatile than everything else. Part of this stems from the fact that we as humans living in the real world, tend to think about things using real world rules. Spells can totally break this. Spells may make things that are taken for granted work in completely different ways than we would normally think. if you are good at thinking on your fet, you can do some amazing things. But you dont want to be concentrating too much on "inventive" use of spells, if you arent comfortable with knowing what to roll when. Or what kind of basic things are good/bad to do in combat/RP.

I ALWAYS give my new players classes that do not start out with spells. Rangers and paladins are workable since they get their spells later when the players are more experienced, but you arent starting at level 1.

If you REALLY wnt to be a caster for the utility here are some things you may want to do.

Print out a "short sheet" that lists your basic options in combat. Stuff like action types, weapon effects. The basic combat "cheat sheet".

Print out ALL spells you can cast, even the ones you don't plan on regularly memorizing (if your caster needs to memorize).

Play some practice combats.

As for class suggestions, here are a few more things to think about.

Feats are VERY limited. So you get your armor/weapon proficiencies from your class, but can ALSO get them from your race. If you want to play a "5th wheel" you may look into "interesting" race/combinations using Half-Orc, Dwarf or Elf or Gnoll if your GM allows advanced races. they are good. Balanced, but VERY good. I like to think of them like Klingons, not evil, they just like war, and honor).

Wizard is the classic "batman" class, but they aren't good in melee or ranged usually.

Bards can be good at most things, they are the classic 5th wheel.

But check out the Alchemist.

They "cast" spells by making special potions on the fly.
They get an ability that can make them good in melee or ranged with very little prep.
They can make their "potions" affect the party.


Last words.

Resist the urge to do damage with your spells. Fireballs are cool, but tactically boring. If you want to kill things with big numbers, be a barbarian. If you want to creatively end fights, or avoid them entirely, or have 1000 contingency plans, use your spells to do things other people cant do.

[Corlindale]

It's almost always a bad idea to do an "even-split" of 2-3 classes in one character. You'll end up being drastically weak in all areas. The way to synergize classes could also be a prestige class - but even that is often considered suboptimal.

I'd strongly recommend staying single-classed, especially as a beginner. Maybe consider an Oracle of Nature. Now you have a divine caster with more skills than a cleric, some nature-flavoured powers and an animal companion of sorts. If you also want a few arcane spells, you could think about the Ancient Lorekeeper archetype available to elven oracles - which lets you pick a number of spells from the sorceror/wizard list to add as oracle spells.

A bard, as others have said, is also a very good option for versatility.

Another interesting path might be Sorceror -> Dragon Disciple. Built well you can switch between tearing stuff up in melee and blasting it with fire from afar - and you'll be much, much tougher than a regular arcane caster given your d12(!) hd, better saves and free access to feats like toughness and the save feats through the bloodline.

[Generic NPC]

Wow, thank you so much for such detailed and friendly advice and suggestions! I think I definitely have a much better idea of what I'm doing now.

After looking at the class suggestions, and doing a bit of research on them on my own, I'm really liking both Arcane Duelist and Archaeologist. Apparently, I had completely misunderstood what archetypes were before, because I hadn't realized that they could be so different from the base class that they were effectively like sub-classes of their own. With that in mind, I'm completely fine with playing a straight-classed bard archetype.

After bouncing between the two of them for a while now, I'm leaning a bit more toward archaeologist at the moment, for a few main reasons.
1. The observant explorer-type identity feels like a more natural role for a kangaroo to have than a hard-smashing mage masher identity.
2. Playing as a kangaroo, the Arcane Duelist's Arcane Bond and Arcane Armor would be useless, because kangaroos can't use weapons or armor to begin with.
3. Even if I don't yet completely understand how all of them actually work, I like the idea of having a bunch of neat out-of-battle skills.
4. Giving up bardic performance in exchange for a self-buff may be for the best, because it gives me fewer things I need to keep track of while I'm learning the basics.
5. Although I'm admittedly not familiar enough with the game to make an informed judgment, Uncanny Dodge and Evasion sound really neat, and seem like they'd fit my love for survivability.

Of course, if you have any insights on the subject that you think would be important to be aware of, or if you think Arcane Duelist really would work better than Archaeologist for the sort of build I'm interested in, please let me know.

Now that I've considerably narrowed down my class-related issues, I've been planning things out related to playing as an awakened kangaroo. Directly modifying the existing kangaroo monster class to be playable looked way too complicated, so I very carefully used the race builder you provided to design a playable variant from scratch. I asked my friend if using something like that would be allowed, and he was confident that it would be all right (although if it isn't allowed, at least I've pretty much figured out my class). If you're familiar with this sort of thing, let me know if it looks all right. I'm not really sure how overpowered or underpowered any of these traits and such might be, so I want to make sure I didn't accidentally make something game-breaking.

Name: Awakened Kangaroo
3 RP - Type: Magical Beast (1 RP - Low-Light Vision; 2 RP - Skill Bonus (Perception))
0 RP - Size: Medium
0 RP - Base Speed: Normal
2 RP - Ability Score Modifiers: Flexible (+2 Dex, +2 Con)
0 RP - Languages: Standard
-----Defensive Racial Traits-----
2 RP - Natural Armor
-----Feat and Skill Racial Traits-----
1 RP - Skill Training (Handle Animal, Survival)
2 RP - Static Bonus Feat: Skill Focus (Acrobatics)
Total: 10 RP
Miscellaneous: cannot use weapons or armor, has no inventory slots

As you might notice, most of this is based on the characteristics of the kangaroo monster class. I dropped Scent, because it is limited to Advanced Characters (and because that RP cost is insane), and I obviously didn't have room for the full extent of bonuses to Acrobatics and Perception. I added Skill Training, because it would be strange if an awakened wild animal WASN'T good at Handle Animal and Survival. (Also, I am LIKING how many skills are considered class skills for a bard.) The Flexible Ability Score Modifier build seemed to make the most sense: both DEX and CON are the kangaroo monster class's highest stats, and I couldn't figure out a logical reason why CHA would be lower than normal, despite being the original class's lowest non-INT stat. Oh, and there wasn't a guideline for how many points the Magical Beast type should be worth, so I reverse-engineered it and came up with 3 RP, based on the kangaroo monster class's inherent traits.

Oh, and you probably noticed above, but I plan for the kangaroo to be unable to wield weapons and armor, be unable to hold an inventory bag unless someone else explicitly fits it onto the kangaroo, and be unable to access the contents of any inventory bag that might be fitted onto it. (In short, no weapons, armor, or item access.) That's common sense, obviously, considering the lack of opposable thumbs and non-humanoid body shape. The Natural Armor trait should (hopefully) compensate for the armor bit, but I have a question regarding the kangaroo's natural weapon (which is obviously kicking): would the kangaroo automatically be proficient at kicking, or would I need some sort of feat in order for it to attack without penalty?

Oh, and one last thing: considering that I like survival and mitigation of bad luck, would Toughness be a good first feat, or do other options outclass it?

You've definitely helped me out in a major kind of way, and I feel a LOT more prepared for my first Pathfinder session than I did before. Thank you again!

[Harugami]

*cough*shapeshifter ranger (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger/archetypes/paizo---ranger-archetypes/shapeshifter) *cough* Its basically a ranger who partial shape shifts for all the benefits none of the bad things it also says stuff like bravestar or something about bear form you get all muscly and get a more ursine face and you have to take natural weapons as your combat style anyway

[Feralventas]

Natural Armor is a good step at low levels, but even then it's not a substitute for actual armor. You don't need much, and at mid levels and past it you can have it Glamoured so you don't look like you're wearing armor, but getting it fixed for a Kangaroo would only be a +50% price modifier, I think, for being non-humanoid.

Archeologist should be fine for you. I'd also suggest a proper cow-boy hat and whip even if you can't use them to finish the reference, though I suppose that might be too silly on a Kangaroo Bard That Still Sings For It's Spells.

Uncanny Dodge is useful in some respects; hard to catch you off guard.

Evasion's the really important one though; What's that, 20d6 worth of fire damage in a blast? Nope, made my save, I take no damage. (only for Reflex saves though)

The game is heavily gear-based; you will want to figure out how to get gear made for your character, even if it seems a little off. There is literally a chart in the guide books to tell DM's what amount of GP they're expected to have spent as part of their progress, and that factors into the number of challenges they should be prepared for.

However, being that you're a Bard, you have a Caster Level and can therefore pick up Magic Item Crafting Feats. Talk to your DM about this, as it'll make dealing with equipment issues easier once you understand the crafting aspects of the game.

Toughness increases your HP by 1 per HD, or 1 per level in most PC's.
So does an amulet of +2 Constitution. Meaning that picking up Craft Wondrous Item can grant you the effects of Toughness through money AND everything else that you can craft. Or you could pick up a feat to make your attacks better to kill an enemy before they can hit you. Or something to make your spells more effective so that they fail the save needed to Want to hit you.

Lots of ways to go around getting HP; toughness isn't one I'd recommend.

[Edenbeast]

Oh, and you probably noticed above, but I plan for the kangaroo to be unable to wield weapons and armor, be unable to hold an inventory bag unless someone else explicitly fits it onto the kangaroo, and be unable to access the contents of any inventory bag that might be fitted onto it. (In short, no weapons, armor, or item access.) That's common sense, obviously, considering the lack of opposable thumbs and non-humanoid body shape. The Natural Armor trait should (hopefully) compensate for the armor bit, but I have a question regarding the kangaroo's natural weapon (which is obviously kicking): would the kangaroo automatically be proficient at kicking, or would I need some sort of feat in order for it to attack without penalty

You are proficient with your natural weapons.

If you play a female kangaroo, you have a pouch that can fit joey for quite a few months, so you may be able to put some gear in it (as long as it's not too pointy or sharp).

Even an animal companion with an int of 2 can learn the armor proficiency feat. as a bard your start out with light armor proficiency, so I would say when you find some exotic type of light armor you are able to wear it (it's advisable to put on some extra armor later on in game).

As for your question about the Toughness feat. Some people argue that you can compensate with magical equipment. While this is true, the Tougness feat I consider always useful since it's another hitpoint per level extra, on top of the hitpoints gained from an amulet. Seeing you will be running around with relatively low AC for some time, I think it never hurts to have a few extra hitpoints. Toughness is a feat that is never truly wasted.

[doko239]

Can't believe I'm the first one saying this, but Summoner is probably exactly what you wanted.

Eidolon is better than most martial classes on its own, you have a metric crapload of Summon Monster SLAs, good arcane support spells, and can be a better skillmonkey than anyone through proper use of Lesser Evolution Surge and the Skilled evolution.

[Generic NPC]

Thank you for the further information, particularly about equipment. I had been under the impression that non-humanoid equipment was mainly intended for things that were conventional mounts, and that someone wouldn't be likely to know how to make protection for something uncommon like a kangaroo, but I see that's not the case. (Plus, considering that I don't need a weapon, that's more money to spend on getting a really good piece of light armor or something.)

The summoner looks pretty neat, and if I end up having to play as a human at some point in the future, I'll probably try it out. For the kangaroo, though, I'm still favoring archaeologist, especially after seeing how many nice-sounding feats and talents I can cram into it.

Regarding Toughness, even if there is an accessory that simulates the effect, I think I'd still like to get the feat anyway, assuming that the HP bonus stacks with the HP bonuses of accessories. That way, I can make my HP even higher. I tend to be insanely unlucky when playing video games (so much so that it's a running gag among my friends), so my top priority when setting up a character is boosting protection from both attacks and status ailments (especially instant death) as high as reasonably possible without crippling the character's ability to actually do things besides be a wall.

Now that I feel a bit more knowledgeable about a lot of the basics, I did some research and put together a rough draft of the feats and rogue talents that looked most interesting. (The archaeologist archetype gets one rogue talent every 4 levels.) Because my "role" will be shifting between multiple roles as needed, I tried to pick ones that would be useful in a wide variety of cases, as well as ones that offer protection and power up my natural attack. Assuming that I read correctly, I should get 10 feats (one every 2 levels) and 5 rogue talents (the final 3 of which can be advanced talents), and I listed them in the order in which I'd pick them. Does this list look pretty solid?

---Feats---
Lv1: Toughness
Lv3: Improved Initiative
Lv5: Spell Penetration
Lv7: Greater Spell Penetration
Lv9: Great Fortitude
Lv11: Combat Casting
Lv13: Lightning Reflexes
Lv15: Endurance
Lv17: Iron Will
Lv19: Combat Reflexes

---Rogue Talents---
Lv4: Combat Trick (Arcane Strike)
Lv8: Weapon Training (Weapon Focus: Natural Weapon)
Lv12: Improved Evasion
Lv16: Feat (Diehard)
Lv20: Skill Mastery (Acrobatics and Perception, at least)

If you have any suggestions, let me know. Pretty much, my top priorities are having high HP and defenses, resisting status ailments and negative effects, avoiding attacks, and ESPECIALLY resisting instant death. Next in priority is making sure that my Natural Weapon kicks deal enough damage to be viable, followed by magic enhancement and boosts to Acrobatics and Perception (because they're pretty much the kangaroo's innate specialized skills). Oh, and note that because I tend to have comically bad luck when playing games, I'd prefer to avoid things that are "high-risk, high-reward."

Oh, and one more thing. If I understand correctly, I can use the bard class's cantrips (well, the ones I choose to learn, anyway) as often as I like, without a restriction on spells per day. Just to make sure I didn't miss it, there isn't some sort of infinite-use magical tool that simulates the effect of a weak offensive spell like Ray of Frost, is there? It sounds as though damage-dealing spells are rarely as useful as status and support spells, but it sure would be fun to mess around with a weak offensive spell without sacrificing uses of more important spells (like Grease, which sounds way too good to be a Lv.1 spell, assuming I understand it properly).

Thank you again for your help! My first Pathfinder session is imminent, but I feel a lot more prepared now than I did before.

[Feralventas]

"Regarding Toughness, even if there is an accessory that simulates the effect, I think I'd still like to get the feat anyway, assuming that the HP bonus stacks with the HP bonuses of accessories. That way, I can make my HP even higher. I tend to be insanely unlucky when playing video games (so much so that it's a running gag among my friends)"

While I can sympathize, your first mistake here is presuming that this will function as a video game. 4th edition might be more in line with this, but in 3.P, you are far more resilient when you can control things so that you don't Take damage rather than in surviving it. Things like miss-chance-creating spells, or keeping control of where you are and your situation.


---Feats---
Lv1: Toughness (I'd argue this one, but 1st level is the place to get if you must)
Lv3: Improved Initiative (Going first is actually good; lets you decide how the turn goes if you can act quickly.)
Lv5: Spell Penetration (Good for later, when you need to beat SR, but would suggest putting this off until later)
Lv7: Greater Spell Penetration (See Spell Penetration)
Lv9: Great Fortitude (Boosting your con via items gets you HP And improves your fortitude; again, I suggest Craft Wondrous Item)
Lv11: Combat Casting (Might swap this with Spell Pen; you'll want it earlier)
Lv13: Lightning Reflexes (You're in light armor and will have high-dex; the +2 won't help you near so much as a resistance (save bonus) item)
Lv15: Endurance (Useful, but situational; probably fitting as a Kangaroo though).
Lv17: Iron Will (Third verse, same as the first.)
Lv19: Combat Reflexes (Useful earlier, similar to Combat Casting)

---Rogue Talents---
Lv4: Combat Trick (Arcane Strike) (Good call for you once you have spells, 4th level is a little early, but not a bad choice here still)
Lv8: Weapon Training (Weapon Focus: Natural Weapon) (Kinda pointles, +1 to hit you could get from ability boosts, or from bardic features, or from an amulet of Natural Attacks from CWI. Would suggest Weapon Finesse instead; dex as your to-hit stat for melee as well as ranged.)
Lv12: Improved Evasion (Evasion on Steroids; always a good call)
Lv16: Feat (Diehard) (This one not so much; by 16th level, you'll be dealing with things that offer "Make your Save or lose" rather than "Tons of damage that stops Just Shy Of Killing You, unless your Constitution is absurdly high.)
Lv20: Skill Mastery (Acrobatics and Perception, at least) (...I really don't know on this one. Maybe? )


"Oh, and one more thing. If I understand correctly, I can use the bard class's cantrips (well, the ones I choose to learn, anyway) as often as I like, without a restriction on spells per day."

Cantrips are pretty much level-zero spells. In PF you have unlimited uses of them per day, yes. 1st level spells are where the spell-slot limitations start up.


"Just to make sure I didn't miss it, there isn't some sort of infinite-use magical tool that simulates the effect of a weak offensive spell like Ray of Frost, is there? It sounds as though damage-dealing spells are rarely as useful as status and support spells, but it sure would be fun to mess around with a weak offensive spell without sacrificing uses of more important spells (like Grease, which sounds way too good to be a Lv.1 spell, assuming I understand it properly)."

You are right about Grease. Infinite-use items are going to be very expensive, and Cantrips may or may not be allowed as a lot of the item-crafting rules are based on Multiplication, so 0xanything=0 and that messes things up :3. However, if you have the money, you could buy an command-use item. Alternatively, you could pick up Craft Wand at 5th level, which would let you craft magic wands which allow up to 50 charges of a spell, and which can then be re-charged at a later time.


"Thank you again for your help! My first Pathfinder session is imminent, but I feel a lot more prepared now than I did before."

I hope your game goes well GNPC! I'm being a bit nit-picky about this, but for the most part the Bard is a solid class, and you should be set. Good luck.

[ericgrau]

Any melee build with use magic device and a decent number of skills. In pathfinder it's easier to get cross-class skills in general, and with the dangerously curious trait you can get UMD as a full blown class skill with an extra +1 too. A 4500 gp circlet of persuasion will give you another +3.

So standard melee ranger with dangerously curious I'd say. Or better yet a melee fighter with only 2 ranger levels for skills and feats, also with dangerously curious. That gives more AC and hp. Then you use UMD on scrolls and wands to do utility things, while in combat you mostly fight with weapons rather than casting.

At level 5 that gives you an 8+1+~2+3=+14 to use magic device. But you want at least a 19 to be reliable. At level 7 if you got skill focus (use magic device) it could work. You might consider half-elf for the free skill focus. If you are starting a lot earlier than that like level 3 then you might want a single dip into a caster class instead, probably sorcerer assuming you selected the charisma to UMD later. A rogue can work, but it is even more focused on skills and less on combat. EDIT: For most spells infinite use is not necessary so you can save money that way. When it is, a wand is close enough and much cheaper.

Splitting your classes 3 ways with casting classes doesn't work at all though. The spellcasting is at 1/3rd power (eep) and the melee isn't that great either. So yes it would end up being useless across the board. You can get prestige classes like eldritch knight or mystic theurge that split it 2 ways and only leave you a couple levels behind, but there isn't anything to split it 3 ways unless you ask the DM for something custom made.

[TuggyNE]

Infinite-use items are going to be very expensive, and Cantrips may or may not be allowed as a lot of the item-crafting rules are based on Multiplication, so 0xanything=0 and that messes things up :3.

For crafting purposes, cantrips and orisons count as half of a first-level spell.