Spelljammer airships in FR?

[Starshade]

I'm thinking on a Forgotten Realms campagin, where the players would find some evidence of archaic spelljammerships, and ends up getting access to one for themself in the end.
But, what resources would I need for this? After a google search, it seems Shining South got rules for haluraan airships, derivatives of netheril spellljammers. Are there other rules in some books, like elven ones? Or non-FR 3.5/3.0 spelljammer/airships?
Or is I better of homebrew the rules somehow?

[Palanan]

As I recall, the Halruaan airships are for national prestige rather than serious skyfaring; they don't fly very well and they're absurdly expensive. I'd say you're much better off coming up with your own design.

Also, where does it say in Shining South that the Halruaan ships were derivatives of Netherese vessels? I don't see that in the skyships' description on pp. 56-57.

[Krobar]

What we did was use a bunch of older 2nd EDition Spelljammer materials for the fluff, and third party materials for the mechanics.

Check out Spelljammer.org and see if what they have will fit your needs.

[afroakuma]

The Imperial Elven Navy has a fleet positioned around the Realmspace world called Garden. They have docks on Evermeet and in Evereska for elven spelljammers; the governments there do not allow non-elven vessels to use these docks.

Netheril developed spelljamming in its day, though its use was limited. The Netherese created a powerful epic spell for creating breaches through crystal spheres. The Netherese formally abandoned spelljamming activities well before the fall of Netheril.

The real native powers of Toril in spelljamming are the nations of Shou Lung and Wa. These two realms of Kara-Tur are the leaders in Realms-based spelljamming, and most traffic to the planet from the heavens is headed to either of the two.

[Palanan]

Clearly your Realmslore-fu is greater than mine. :smalltongue:

Where is all of this information to be found? In particular, where could one find details on the fleet around Garden, and the spelljamming prowess of Shou Lung and Wa?

[afroakuma]

Where is all of this information to be found? In particular, where could one find details on the fleet around Garden, and the spelljamming prowess of Shou Lung and Wa?

You'll want a 2E sourcebook called Realmspace. The fleet around Garden isn't as significant as it once was back when the IEN's secret headquarters was stationed there, but it's still a useful place to orbit, despite having no ports. It's about as close a station of sorts as they can get to the crystal sphere, given that H'catha, the next planet in line, is controlled by beholders.

[Mnemnosyne]

Spelljammers are also not unheard of landing in Waterdeep. Rare, but long-time residents of the city will probably have seen one or two spelljamming vessels land in the harbor over a number of years.

I agree with getting the 2nd Edition materials, much of it is easily adapted to 3rd Edition. Spelljammer.org, as mentioned has one set of adaptations, but you might want to make changes of your own and read the original rules to see where they came from.

One of the main things I never thought was particularly good about Spelljammer was the fact that the helm would drain the character sitting on it of all spells. This meant that the casters in the party could either power the ship OR do their caster thing; if they were forced off the helm they were totally useless. I've never gotten to actually DM a proper Spelljammer game, but if I did I think I would do away with that part of the rules, or somehow allow it to be mitigated, so that the players' options aren't to have one character essentially sit out every fight, or hire NPC casters to sit on the helm.

[afroakuma]

One of the main things I never thought was particularly good about Spelljammer was the fact that the helm would drain the character sitting on it of all spells. This meant that the casters in the party could either power the ship OR do their caster thing; if they were forced off the helm they were totally useless. I've never gotten to actually DM a proper Spelljammer game, but if I did I think I would do away with that part of the rules, or somehow allow it to be mitigated, so that the players' options aren't to have one character essentially sit out every fight, or hire NPC casters to sit on the helm.

There are, of course, other kinds of helm, such as furnace helms that drain power from magic items, and of course the horrifying lifejammers. In a Planejammer campaign I ran, certain services would provide charged helms, which were effectively fueled up for a given amount of flight. It allowed the casters to go about their business most of the time, while introducing new challenges and perils if you ran down your charge before making it back to dock.

[Gavinfoxx]

There are gnomish flying machines of various sorts in FR...

[Feralventas]

PF Vehicles (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/vehicles) might help a little. There's some air-ship options at the bottom of the list, and they ought to translate to 3.5 easily enough.

[Gavinfoxx]

My Airship guide MIGHT help... but I specifically couldn't find any examples of Spelljammer rules for 3.Xe...

https://docs.google.com/document/d/14zilT4WGOyHM0AfpG4-GmD2FkgDg1HZ9HC1cTleQHds/edit

If anyone DOES find some, I would be very appreciative!

[Krobar]

There are, of course, other kinds of helm, such as furnace helms that drain power from magic items, and of course the horrifying lifejammers. In a Planejammer campaign I ran, certain services would provide charged helms, which were effectively fueled up for a given amount of flight. It allowed the casters to go about their business most of the time, while introducing new challenges and perils if you ran down your charge before making it back to dock.

Lifejammers. Do. Not. Want.

That aside we used helm batteries. Same basic idea: you could buy them already charged (by a weakling) or spend downtime charging them yourself (works better if you're a higher level caster). Depending on the capacity of the battery, they might last a few days, a week, or a month or more of flying time.

But they always seemed to run dry at the most inopportune times. Funny how that works!

[Clistenes]

The Imperial Elven Navy has a fleet positioned around the Realmspace world called Garden. They have docks on Evermeet and in Evereska for elven spelljammers; the governments there do not allow non-elven vessels to use these docks.

Netheril developed spelljamming in its day, though its use was limited. The Netherese created a powerful epic spell for creating breaches through crystal spheres. The Netherese formally abandoned spelljamming activities well before the fall of Netheril.

The real native powers of Toril in spelljamming are the nations of Shou Lung and Wa. These two realms of Kara-Tur are the leaders in Realms-based spelljamming, and most traffic to the planet from the heavens is headed to either of the two.

What about Greyhawk/Oerth?

[afroakuma]

What about Greyhawk/Oerth?

Greyspace is interesting; it's geocentric, not heliocentric, which is quite rare. It's a very big sphere, with the sun (Liga) being the third body orbiting Oerth. It's a bit treacherous to navigate; in addition to a dense asteroid belt known as the Grinder dividing the inner bodies from the outer bodies, Greyspace features an enormous dead-magic sargasso and a trio of annihilating vortices known as the Dark Stars.

Outer Greyspace is fairly busy; the Grinder has a few ports of call and hidden harbors for spelljamming. Inner Greyspace is less so, but there are a few kingdoms of Oerth that know of spelljamming. Most crucially, the Oeridian deity Celestian governs wildspace and endorses spelljamming, and his missionaries ply their barges through the sphere, as well as serving on other ships. Greyspace has its share of troubles with spaceborne nuisances and the Second Unhuman War.

[Zanthy1]

Question: what is a spelljammer airship?

[TuggyNE]

2e planar fluff: awesome, or super-awesome? :smallcool:

[Clistenes]

Greyspace is interesting; it's geocentric, not heliocentric, which is quite rare. It's a very big sphere, with the sun (Liga) being the third body orbiting Oerth. It's a bit treacherous to navigate; in addition to a dense asteroid belt known as the Grinder dividing the inner bodies from the outer bodies, Greyspace features an enormous dead-magic sargasso and a trio of annihilating vortices known as the Dark Stars.

Outer Greyspace is fairly busy; the Grinder has a few ports of call and hidden harbors for spelljamming. Inner Greyspace is less so, but there are a few kingdoms of Oerth that know of spelljamming. Most crucially, the Oeridian deity Celestian governs wildspace and endorses spelljamming, and his missionaries ply their barges through the sphere, as well as serving on other ships. Greyspace has its share of troubles with spaceborne nuisances and the Second Unhuman War.

I don't know about the Second Unhuman war, but, since both Inner Greyspace and Outer Greyspace are within the same Crystal Sphere, shouldn't be possible to just build a portal or permanent teleportation circle between them so you don't have to navigate through the Grinder of close to the Sargasso or the Dark Stars?

[Larkas]

The best spell jamming vessel is THE Spelljammer. It's a living vessel, and as such, IIRC, doesn't need a helm draining anything. Good luck finding one, though.

[Lapak]

Question: what is a spelljammer airship?Spelljammer is a 2e setting that boils down to 'D&D in Outer Space.' (Fantasy Outer Space, as this was before everyone felt compelled to try to jam real-world physics into things.)

Spelljammers are ships - either regular old sailing ships or frames designed for the purpose - which have a spelljamming Helm attached that converts magical energy into motion. Stick a spellcaster in the seat, and they can make the whole ship fly, either through the air or into space. A 'spelljammer airship' would just be a spelljammer which you don't take off-planet, I suppose.

(There are alternate helm-types as well, which other people have mentioned in the thread, which run off of something other than a spellcaster. Furnaces burn magic items, lifejammers energy-drain people to death in order to run, serial helms are powered by mind flayers (and possibly other psychic types) and so on.)

[awa]

they are also the origin of the giant space hamster.

there is a fairly famous miniature giant space hamster as well

[Clistenes]

A question: How does the different Crystal Spheres interact with divinations?

I know you can use Discern Location to find something or somebody in another plane, but what about something or somebody in a different Crystal Sphere?. And what about lesser divinations like Scrying or Greater Scrying?

And what about the senses (including portfolio sense) of gods? Can they perceive things happening in Crystal Spheres not part of their turf?

Does a spelljamming target reduce the chances of getting good information when using Commune or Contact Other Plane?

[afroakuma]

I actually have another thread for taking this sort of question. :smalltongue:


since both Inner Greyspace and Outer Greyspace are within the same Crystal Sphere, shouldn't be possible to just build a portal or permanent teleportation circle between them so you don't have to navigate through the Grinder of close to the Sargasso or the Dark Stars?

You could, yes, but can you make it big enough, stable enough, protected enough and serviceable enough to get a whole spelljammer through on a regular basis? Preferably without botching up some of the magic of the 'jammer itself?

And if you can, who's allowed to use it and how much does it cost? :smalltongue: If I built a "space bridge," I'd let everyone know and charge a hefty toll.

Practical truth is, construction in space takes time and draws the attention of wildspace creatures who can give you grief. Large magical works likewise. It's certainly plausible that you can build a portal to jump through wildspace, but it'll be difficult and quite possibly more trouble than it was worth.


A question: How does the different Crystal Spheres interact with divinations?

Differently. :smalltongue:


I know you can use Discern Location to find something or somebody in another plane, but what about something or somebody in a different Crystal Sphere?. And what about lesser divinations like Scrying or Greater Scrying?

Depends on the crystal spheres in question; some allow foreign magic to cross them, others do not. Scrying creates a sensor with a transdimensional link, so it should fail to pass between crystal spheres automatically. Discern location creates no sensor, so it should pass through most crystal spheres with no difficulty; however, the spell is not usefully calibrated to provide information on a non-planetary scale and what information you may get could be quite useless ("the continent of Adlatum? I've never heard of such a thing").


And what about the senses (including portfolio sense) of gods? Can they perceive things happening in Crystal Spheres not part of their turf?

No. That's a very big rule. Portfolio sense requires that their worship be present in a sphere or that the sphere's overpower (if any) allows the power a presence in the sphere.


Does a spelljamming target reduce the chances of getting good information when using Commune or Contact Other Plane?

Yes. Not much, mind you; gods have allies and can get information the old-fashioned way, but some. Still, there's a real chance that a god can't help out if a ship slips into some faraway sphere (beyond knowing that it happened).

[Clistenes]

You could, yes, but can you make it big enough, stable enough, protected enough and serviceable enough to get a whole spelljammer through on a regular basis? Preferably without botching up some of the magic of the 'jammer itself?

And if you can, who's allowed to use it and how much does it cost? :smalltongue: If I built a "space bridge," I'd let everyone know and charge a hefty toll.

Practical truth is, construction in space takes time and draws the attention of wildspace creatures who can give you grief. Large magical works likewise. It's certainly plausible that you can build a portal to jump through wildspace, but it'll be difficult and quite possibly more trouble than it was worth.

Thank you for your answers.

About the portal or teleportation circle, I was thinking in a couple permanent teleportation cicles allowing to carry merchandise between Oerth and a spelljamming dock in Spectra. Mules or porters can carry the wares on their backs from one planet to other using the circles, and the spelljammers could just visit Spectra, exchange the wares there and go back to Krynn or Toril. Or they could even pay a toll for using the circles and go to Oerth themselves on foot, avoiding the dangers of Greyspace.