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rkarnes
2013-02-06, 03:06 PM
My DM style is that collaborate with my players, work from behind the screen to benefit the players, and embrace the cliches of the genre.

One such cliche or archetype of D&D is when the party is captured by drow, pressed into slavery, has their equipment taken, and has to outsmart their captors to escape.

My problem is that this archetype/cliche scenario is very likely to put me more at odds with my players than I would like. It feels like a train to bottleneck town, and nobody enjoys having their things taken away.

Is this adventure archetype "core" enough to the genre, and possible fun, to justify the potential fallout? Does anyone have any advice to avoid fallout beyond the obvious "explain myself to my friends like an adult".

My plan so far is to plan an encounter with drow slavers and lay down a thick layer of non-lethal damage. Let the whole fight go down, but seriously stack the deck; endless wave of mooks, mages casting spells like "sleep", and a couple of drow-fancy-pants-whip-jerk types harassing people into unconsciousness. I'll have cages full of prisoners that the party can try to free, and a chase through the underdark prepared in case they try to escape... but I definitely will not relent until everyone is captured.

CoffeeIncluded
2013-02-06, 03:15 PM
Why would the drow want this specific group of players so much that they'll hunt them down and get themselves hurt? If it's just salves, at some point they'd go, "Screw this, I can get twenty for a fifth of the hassle, even if they won't be as strong."

The Glyphstone
2013-02-06, 03:21 PM
This is a bad idea if you have any intention of doing it without foreknowledge and consent by the players. If you're set on a captured-by-drow scenario, you have two options:

1) Get the party's consent beforehand. Let them know the fight will go on until they're overwhelmed and captured, and make the 'goal' of the fight different, like seeing how many drow they can wipe out...'survival' mode, effectively. A railroad is only acceptable when the PCs bought tickets in first class.

2) Just narrate it. Don't waste their time by making them roll dice when all it does is prolong the inevitable. In fact, start the campaign after the capture, with a brief narrated 'you were captured by drow after a long and difficult fight'. Now you can get to the part of the game they can actually play.

rkarnes
2013-02-06, 03:25 PM
Why would the drow want this specific group of players so much that they'll hunt them down and get themselves hurt?

The players are exploring the underdark, and will encounter the slavers there.


If it's just [slaves], at some point they'd go, "Screw this, I can get twenty for a fifth of the hassle, even if they won't be as strong."

We're talking about the Underdark here; everything is strong! The drow slavers were just picking up some derro to feed their spiders, raiding their puny village, when a group of potential slave-pit breeding stock presented itself (and an elf in the party, to boot!). The drow would chase them hard, lest they anger their dark queen and house-mothers!

Synovia
2013-02-06, 03:35 PM
This is a bad idea if you have any intention of doing it without foreknowledge and consent by the players. If you're set on a captured-by-drow scenario, you have two options:

1) Get the party's consent beforehand. Let them know the fight will go on until they're overwhelmed and captured, and make the 'goal' of the fight different, like seeing how many drow they can wipe out...'survival' mode, effectively. A railroad is only acceptable when the PCs bought tickets in first class.

2) Just narrate it. Don't waste their time by making them roll dice when all it does is prolong the inevitable. In fact, start the campaign after the capture, with a brief narrated 'you were captured by drow after a long and difficult fight'. Now you can get to the part of the game they can actually play.

I can't agree with number 1. If you're going to tell the party they're going to get captured, and let them decide whether thats ok, just narrate the damn thing and be done with it.

I think asking your players beforehand would ruin the encounter. They'd be less likely to use consumables, etc. They'd be more likely to just surrender, and not risk getting killed in the scuffle. If its a foregone conclusion, and they KNOW its a foregone conclusion, then we're not playing a game, we're being duped.

If its not a foregone conclusion, and they're just overmatched, it can still be an interesting encounter. That moment where the players start realizing that they might not win is an interesting one.

rkarnes
2013-02-06, 03:35 PM
1) Get the party's consent beforehand. Let them know the fight will go on until they're overwhelmed and captured, and make the 'goal' of the fight different, like seeing how many drow they can wipe out...'survival' mode, effectively. A railroad is only acceptable when the PCs bought tickets in first class.

I think that's a reasonable thing to do. I think that if I give the players to be heroic in defeat, it might help the medicine go down.



2) Just narrate it. Don't waste their time by making them roll dice when all it does is prolong the inevitable. In fact, start the campaign after the capture, with a brief narrated 'you were captured by drow after a long and difficult fight'. Now you can get to the part of the game they can actually play.

This is a great way to start a campaign, but this an ongoing campaign, several months in the progress, and a game session starting with "as you sleep in the underdark...drow attack...you got captured...yadda yadda yadda" would not work well with this group.

rkarnes
2013-02-06, 03:40 PM
I can't agree with number 1. If you're going to tell the party they're going to get captured, and let them decide whether thats ok, just narrate the damn thing and be done with it.

I think asking your players beforehand would ruin the encounter. They'd be less likely to use consumables, etc. They'd be more likely to just surrender, and not risk getting killed in the scuffle. If its a foregone conclusion, and they KNOW its a foregone conclusion, then we're not playing a game, we're being duped.

If its not a foregone conclusion, and they're just overmatched, it can still be an interesting encounter. That moment where the players start realizing that they might not win is an interesting one.

That's my concern too; it could be an amazing fight, but if they know what they're up against, they won't try as hard. It also happens to be at the heel of a rather large boss fight the players barely won, and the characters (and players) have been very confident recently. The moment that they realize they just waded in over their heads may be exactly what they need.

CoffeeIncluded
2013-02-06, 03:42 PM
If you let them use up all their consumable items before being captured, then they're going to be pretty upset, and rightfully so. Would you use up all your items before a hopeless boss fight?

Nousos
2013-02-06, 03:44 PM
Depending on who you are playing with, telling them beforehand wouldn't go down well. I know a few players who would have their characters eat any magic rings and small items, and shove any platinum pieces in places the drow can't find.

One second note.While its likely that it would be pawned off across the empire or kept by the slavers, most players would expect to eventually get their equipment back. It sounds dumb but that's what happens in video games, and they sort of expect to find it all in a chest when they escape. I've often been shocked at what my players have assumed.

Thialfi
2013-02-06, 03:46 PM
My DM style is that collaborate with my players, work from behind the screen to benefit the players, and embrace the cliches of the genre.

One such cliche or archetype of D&D is when the party is captured by drow, pressed into slavery, has their equipment taken, and has to outsmart their captors to escape.

My problem is that this archetype/cliche scenario is very likely to put me more at odds with my players than I would like. It feels like a train to bottleneck town, and nobody enjoys having their things taken away.

Is this adventure archetype "core" enough to the genre, and possible fun, to justify the potential fallout? Does anyone have any advice to avoid fallout beyond the obvious "explain myself to my friends like an adult".

My plan so far is to plan an encounter with drow slavers and lay down a thick layer of non-lethal damage. Let the whole fight go down, but seriously stack the deck; endless wave of mooks, mages casting spells like "sleep", and a couple of drow-fancy-pants-whip-jerk types harassing people into unconsciousness. I'll have cages full of prisoners that the party can try to free, and a chase through the underdark prepared in case they try to escape... but I definitely will not relent until everyone is captured.

I always hated the capture the party type set ups. I know as a player that I would never have a character surrender. I would use every possible tactic to get away. I would not even surrender if the enemy threatened to kill helpless party members if I did not relent. The expectation would be that if I surrendered, then we'd all die anyway. You are setting yourself up as a DM to have to kill party members and you are most likely looking at splitting the party into several groups.

It's bad enough to have your character knocked out and captured. It's even worse when you have to sit there doing nothing while the DM chases down the rest of the party.

Synovia
2013-02-06, 03:51 PM
If you let them use up all their consumable items before being captured, then they're going to be pretty upset, and rightfully so. Would you use up all your items before a hopeless boss fight?


If the Drow capture them and don't steal their consumables, its going to be a pretty silly adventure.

There's nothing wrong with the players losing an encounter. Even if it costs things. Just make the WBL up when they escape/kill the drow, or later.

Fortuna
2013-02-06, 03:51 PM
I don't think you should force them to be captured. It's not much fun to be railroaded, as you say.

That said... feel free to force them to flee, or use terrain, or generally fight smart instead of hard. If they go down, proceed with your original plan. If they don't, never mind. If they're foolish enough to continue probing drow territory, let them come across more slavers. At some point, they'll earn a reputation, meaning that the drow who come across them will try even harder to bring them in, and some groups might actually start tracking them down or even using scry-and-die tactics.

EDIT: Thialfi makes a good point - so make it clear from the get-go that these are slavers fighting to subdue.

CoffeeIncluded
2013-02-06, 03:57 PM
If the Drow capture them and don't steal their consumables, its going to be a pretty silly adventure.

There's nothing wrong with the players losing an encounter. Even if it costs things. Just make the WBL up when they escape/kill the drow, or later.

What I mean is if the party's feeling desperate then they might start throwing out their strongest single-use stuff that'll be really hard to get back. Then again, I'm the kind of person who hoards everything in RPGs, so.

The Glyphstone
2013-02-06, 04:01 PM
1) Really does depend on your group, I'll admit. I've only seen it used once it action effectively, and it was done, like I said, with consent. It wasn't presented as 'okay, you guys are going to fight an unwinnable encounter' as a fiat, it was as an option...."we're going to play a escape-from-slavery campaign, do you guys want to roll out the initial capture or narrate through it?" We voted to roll it out and 'keep score' on who got how many kills for fun. Not every group would vote for this, or be trustworthy enough to offer the option in the first place.

rkarnes
2013-02-06, 04:04 PM
If you let them use up all their consumable items before being captured, then they're going to be pretty upset, and rightfully so. Would you use up all your items before a hopeless boss fight?

I have done that in almost every JRPG that has ever existed. Also, my group has a pretty enlightened outlook on treasure, and since most potions and scrolls have a relatively short "shelf-life" wherein the item is useful to a party of a certain level, I'm not too worried about it. Any serious loss I did not foresee I can offset with more treasure later.


Depending on who you are playing with, telling them beforehand wouldn't go down well. I know a few players who would have their characters eat any magic rings and small items, and shove any platinum pieces in places the drow can't find.

My players aren't min-maxers, and I have cultivated a trusting relationship between myself and the players.


One second note.While its likely that it would be pawned off across the empire or kept by the slavers, most players would expect to eventually get their equipment back. It sounds dumb but that's what happens in video games, and they sort of expect to find it all in a chest when they escape. I've often been shocked at what my players have assumed.

I agree. In fact, just as they players get captured, I am going to hand them an index card, tell them to write down everything they have, and let them know that they'll get their equipment back when they escape. It's meta-knowledge, but it only seems fair.


I always hated the capture the party type set ups.

Honestly, so do I. It makes me frustrated as a player, and nervous as a DM. I have heard a lot of dissuading advice, but not anything I haven't already considered. I'm still on the fence about doing it.


I know as a player that I would never have a character surrender. I would use every possible tactic to get away. I would not even surrender if the enemy threatened to kill helpless party members if I did not relent. The expectation would be that if I surrendered, then we'd all die anyway. You are setting yourself up as a DM to have to kill party members and you are most likely looking at splitting the party into several groups.

It would be fun if there were a hostage situation! I would threaten an unconscious PC in a heartbeat! "Come out of the jungle, Rambo, or the girl gets it!" But it would be a total bluff, and I would let the unconscious PC's player know it.


It's bad enough to have your character knocked out and captured. It's even worse when you have to sit there doing nothing while the DM chases down the rest of the party.

We have a pretty liberal "if you're dead, help the survivors come up with strategies" policy that, while not perfect form in a lot of games, helps mitigate the pain of unconsciousness in our own.

BlckDv
2013-02-06, 04:05 PM
As Thialfi said; trying to run this on the sly is a recipe for disaster.

This is definitely a classic style of scene/obstacle in fantasy literature, and as such lots of people want to copy it over into fantasy games.

As a start of a campaign or as a "Chapter break" in a style of game that has regular time jumps between adventures, this can work out just fine.

If a party is of a sort to work with the game master on story including setbacks, running it mid-adventure can work, but it is ripe for disaster if the players (not the characters) are not bought in on the capture plotline.

Every old module I know with a well after the story starts capture scene more or less tells the game master "If this doesn't work out by the dice, you just have to cheat your butt off" That doesn't sit well with me, and violates the social contract to many players.

From personal concrete experiances on both sides of the screen I've seen attempts at a party capture that was "inevitable" but not revealed to the players result in:

1. TPK
2. The party putting all their resources into letting one member escape to carry on their mission and the other players being very upset when they were not allowed to simply roll up new PCs to join the guy who got away, as they had "Sold their lives dear" and had no desire to run a rescue/escape adventure.
3. A player who would not let an ally get captured while he lived and so forced the enemy to kill him, resulting in a very ticked off player when he realized the encounter was rigged to not end until people were captured.
4. Split parties as they scatter to make it hard to catch them all, resulting in some PCs captured, some dead, some free.
5. The party captured and subdued but with trust in the DM shattered and no willingness to believe in the fairness of future encounters, resulting in the quick death of the campaign.

You'd do much better to have NPCs *Try* to capture them, but with a resilient enough plot to reshape itself around the party having thwarted a capture attempt.

hymer
2013-02-06, 04:08 PM
Is there any way you can think of to get the good things from this idea without the bad ones? How about this:

Someone asks the PCs to take the role of slaves who get 'sold' by an allied agent. Their mission is to spy on the drow, or find a slave, or go through a religious rite (someone could need atonement e.g.). This way, they can say no, and you can whip out another adventure, or they can go about their mission in a different way.

rkarnes
2013-02-06, 04:11 PM
I don't think you should force them to be captured. It's not much fun to be railroaded, as you say.

That said... feel free to force them to flee, or use terrain, or generally fight smart instead of hard. If they go down, proceed with your original plan. If they don't, never mind. If they're foolish enough to continue probing drow territory, let them come across more slavers. At some point, they'll earn a reputation, meaning that the drow who come across them will try even harder to bring them in, and some groups might actually start tracking them down or even using scry-and-die tactics.

EDIT: Thialfi makes a good point - so make it clear from the get-go that these are slavers fighting to subdue.

and...


You'd do much better to have NPCs *Try* to capture them, but with a resilient enough plot to reshape itself around the party having thwarted a capture attempt.

This is a great idea. I should plan a difficult encounter, one that will very likely end in the players being defeated, but it does not -have- to. Here I was, entrenching myself in bad DMing habits, when I knew the solution all along, and just needed someone to remind me!

I will start the encounter, then explain that this will be a very challenging encounter, that I will pull out all the stops; but it can be beaten. I will explain that if they are beaten, they will be slaves to the drow, and likely suffer a horrible fate unless they can manage an escape. Then I will push hard! Players who flee will be persued. Characters who hide will be searched-out! Characters who fight will be met with tooth, nail, iron and magic! I will layer several encounters on top of each other, and introduce new elements each few rounds. I will let them know all my cards are on the table, then roll all my dice out in the open, where people can see them.

Peelee
2013-02-06, 04:16 PM
1) Really does depend on your group, I'll admit. I've only seen it used once it action effectively, and it was done, like I said, with consent. It wasn't presented as 'okay, you guys are going to fight an unwinnable encounter' as a fiat, it was as an option...."we're going to play a escape-from-slavery campaign, do you guys want to roll out the initial capture or narrate through it?" We voted to roll it out and 'keep score' on who got how many kills for fun. Not every group would vote for this, or be trustworthy enough to offer the option in the first place.

Have to agree wholeheartedly with the first sentence here. If I was in a group that was offered the choice [and if the group as a whole accepted it], I wouldn't even try. At best I'd see it as a "hey, this is time we could spend trying to advance the story or explore the world, but instead, let's just see who can roll dice the best for a while?" scenario. If the party needs to be captured for the rest of the story to play out, I have no beef at all with it. So long as the DM doesn't dictate what actions I take or roll the dice for me, I'm fine with him stacking the deck against us in an overpowering battle.

That said, when I DM, I make it a point to tell the players I will, on [rare] occasion, railroad them if necessary for the story (again, I'll never dictate their actions or roll their dice, but the villain acts according to how I say). So if you're completely dead-set against ever railroading, take this as you will.

rkarnes
2013-02-06, 04:21 PM
I will start the encounter with a balanced encounter with two fighter types and three spell casters, let the party spread out over the battlefield. The bulk of the drow slavers just stand back, let their bosses do the honor. The party will go after the spellcasters first.

On round three, the line of onlooking drow attack, getting mixed into the fray. Each round on initiative count 0 I'll describe the slavers looking more and more anxious to get into the fight.

On round six, I'll have drow mounted on giant bats play the harriers to the PCs. Three encounters at once; when/if the players try to run, the encounter will shift to a chase scene (using the pathfinder chase rules).

If only some of the players escape, I will talk to the escaped PCs and ask them "next session, the game will begin with you rescuing the captured PCs, and the captured PCs escaping. We're working on two different plans; what's yours?"

CoffeeIncluded
2013-02-06, 04:23 PM
and...



This is a great idea. I should plan a difficult encounter, one that will very likely end in the players being defeated, but it does not -have- to. Here I was, entrenching myself in bad DMing habits, when I knew the solution all along, and just needed someone to remind me!

I will start the encounter, then explain that this will be a very challenging encounter, that I will pull out all the stops; but it can be beaten. I will explain that if they are beaten, they will be slaves to the drow, and likely suffer a horrible fate unless they can manage an escape. Then I will push hard! Players who flee will be persued. Characters who hide will be searched-out! Characters who fight will be met with tooth, nail, iron and magic! I will layer several encounters on top of each other, and introduce new elements each few rounds. I will let them know all my cards are on the table, then roll all my dice out in the open, where people can see them.

See, now that sounds like it could be fun!

hymer
2013-02-06, 04:26 PM
Don't neglect to plan for some of the PCs getting away and some not getting away. They may in fact go into fighting withdrawal from the very beginning.

rkarnes
2013-02-06, 04:29 PM
Don't neglect to plan for some of the PCs getting away and some not getting away. They may in fact go into fighting withdrawal from the very beginning.

Of course; I will start the next session with the escape/rescue scene both halves of the party have come up with a plan. We'll begin the game in medias res.

Fortuna
2013-02-06, 04:41 PM
I will start the encounter, then explain that this will be a very challenging encounter, that I will pull out all the stops; but it can be beaten. I will explain that if they are beaten, they will be slaves to the drow, and likely suffer a horrible fate unless they can manage an escape. Then I will push hard! Players who flee will be persued. Characters who hide will be searched-out! Characters who fight will be met with tooth, nail, iron and magic! I will layer several encounters on top of each other, and introduce new elements each few rounds. I will let them know all my cards are on the table, then roll all my dice out in the open, where people can see them.

While I appreciate that you're explaining out of a sense of fairness, there are ways to signal that other than telling them flat-out. In my experience, table talk of that sort can really break immersion. Instead...

When the encounter begins, the bosses are dismissive of the PCs and order a group of underlings to bring them in. These guys should represent a fraction of the fighting force, led by a lieutenant, and should on their own constitute a reasonable encounter for the PCs - not likely to win, but they'll force some resource expenditure. The rest of the drow are occupied in the raid that's their reason for being here.

Once the PCs start inflicting casualties, the lieutenant calls for backup, and gets it in the form of more underlings and maybe a support caster. By this point the PCs should have expended some resources and realized that they've barely scratched the surface of the force. At the same time, describe how the raid is over almost before it's begun, devolving into mop-up and capture. Bring in new underlings as they finish their tasks in the main raid. Several rounds later, with the raid essentially complete, the bosses will delegate a lieutenant to finish the raid and join the fray.

Likewise, if the PCs manage to bring down one of the important characters, the bosses will take an interest. They should be reasonably powerful, but more importantly they should act as a well-oiled team. They'll also call in significant numbers of minions. Once the bosses are involved, this is essentially an unwinnable fight - there are too many, and the bosses are too strong.

Throughout, remember that the enemies are fighting to capture. That means cutting off escape routes and attacking to subdue. From the slavers' perspective, the PCs escaping is a loss, and they should take every reasonable steps to prevent it. Fight with nets and tanglefoots and slow. If the PCs flee at first they'll probably be dismissed, maybe to be tracked down later. Once more important characters are involved there will be hot pursuit. If by some miracle they actually achieve victory, let them have it.

Peelee
2013-02-06, 04:47 PM
While I appreciate that you're explaining out of a sense of fairness, there are ways to signal that other than telling them flat-out. In my experience, table talk of that sort can really break immersion. Instead...

When the encounter begins, the bosses are dismissive of the PCs and order a group of underlings to bring them in. These guys should represent a fraction of the fighting force, led by a lieutenant, and should on their own constitute a reasonable encounter for the PCs - not likely to win, but they'll force some resource expenditure. The rest of the drow are occupied in the raid that's their reason for being here.

Once the PCs start inflicting casualties, the lieutenant calls for backup, and gets it in the form of more underlings and maybe a support caster. By this point the PCs should have expended some resources and realized that they've barely scratched the surface of the force. At the same time, describe how the raid is over almost before it's begun, devolving into mop-up and capture. Bring in new underlings as they finish their tasks in the main raid. Several rounds later, with the raid essentially complete, the bosses will delegate a lieutenant to finish the raid and join the fray.

Likewise, if the PCs manage to bring down one of the important characters, the bosses will take an interest. They should be reasonably powerful, but more importantly they should act as a well-oiled team. They'll also call in significant numbers of minions. Once the bosses are involved, this is essentially an unwinnable fight - there are too many, and the bosses are too strong.

Throughout, remember that the enemies are fighting to capture. That means cutting off escape routes and attacking to subdue. From the slavers' perspective, the PCs escaping is a loss, and they should take every reasonable steps to prevent it. Fight with nets and tanglefoots and slow. If the PCs flee at first they'll probably be dismissed, maybe to be tracked down later. Once more important characters are involved there will be hot pursuit. If by some miracle they actually achieve victory, let them have it.

This. This seems like a great way to run the encounter, from my point of view.

BlckDv
2013-02-06, 04:57 PM
These revisions are making for a much more awesome sounding game that seems less likely to set off player annoyance.

I do like the idea of trying to frame the explanation that this fight could Get All Out Of Hand by giving IC details; but depending on the history of your party that may or may not be kosher, if a party is used to key details being delivered OOC and IC details being window dressing, they might reasonably be peeved if a warning was only given via IC description.

Still, this is starting to sound like a really fun session/encounter, which is an amazing turn around.

Arbane
2013-02-06, 05:48 PM
One second note.While its likely that it would be pawned off across the empire or kept by the slavers, most players would expect to eventually get their equipment back. It sounds dumb but that's what happens in video games, and they sort of expect to find it all in a chest when they escape. I've often been shocked at what my players have assumed.

Given how gearcentric D&D tends to be, they've got every reason to be upset if they can't get their stuff back - that's half their character right there! (90%, in the case of a wizard's spellbook.)

I must warn you: Most PCs would genuinely rather DIE than be captured alive. (And when it's drow, that is often an entirely reasonable attitude, as they have a reputation that makes Vlad the Impaler look like Mother Theresa.) And ALL players hate being railroaded, no matter HOW kewl you think the resulting plotline would be.

Having said all that, probably the best time to pull this off would be right AFTER a massive fight with something else, giving an excuse why the PCs are starting out half-a-quart low. Possibly the only way to avoid MASSIVE around-the-table kvetching would be a nice XP bonus for putting up with being hosed.

Fortuna
2013-02-06, 06:00 PM
Given how gearcentric D&D tends to be, they've got every reason to be upset if they can't get their stuff back - that's half their character right there! (90%, in the case of a wizard's spellbook.)

Frankly, this attitude irritates me. At most let them have one or two key items back each, and make up the rest in new shiny toys, and they've no real reason to complain.


I must warn you: Most PCs would genuinely rather DIE than be captured alive. (And when it's drow, that is often an entirely reasonable attitude, as they have a reputation that makes Vlad the Impaler look like Mother Theresa.) And ALL players hate being railroaded, no matter HOW kewl you think the resulting plotline would be.

This is why I suggest giving them the option of retreat, even if you make it difficult. And frankly, if they'd rather die than be captured alive... they're holding sharp objects, how hard can it be?

Hel65
2013-02-06, 06:41 PM
The idea of making it a hard encounter with an uncertain outcome is a right way to approach this. I find it one of the most enjoyable things in GMing that it's making a story, but every session at the beginning I could be asked a question "what will the outcome of this session be?" and I'd always answer "I don't know, let's find out!" (though I can guess and I often guess right, but that's because I know my players, not because I written it so!).

Though in this particular case I don't know what the problem is - a judicious use of the famous Drow Knockout Poison with some backup for those who roll too well too consistently should basically ensure the desired result doing everything by the book, nothing for reasonable players to complain about.

Though judging by the warnings about player reactions given in this thread, I wouldn't consider most players reasonable if they'd be too irate at things like being captured (would anyone really rather be TPKed than TPCaptured?), losing most of their gear without it getting put in a chest next to the cell door (if we're playing a live game, shouldn't we enjoy not having to conform to silly videogame tropes ?),

Fortuna
2013-02-06, 06:48 PM
Regarding the loss of their gear: if you want them to be able to reclaim an object, have it be claimed directly by their captors for personal use. A mage picks up the spellbook to study for new arcane secrets. The dark priestess claims the paladin's holy sword, and plans to corrupt it for her own fell purposes. And so on.

Eldonauran
2013-02-06, 07:34 PM
Though judging by the warnings about player reactions given in this thread, I wouldn't consider most players reasonable if they'd be too irate at things like being captured (would anyone really rather be TPKed than TPCaptured?), losing most of their gear without it getting put in a chest next to the cell door (if we're playing a live game, shouldn't we enjoy not having to conform to silly videogame tropes ?),

Yeah, never bought the concept of TPK myself. I never give up on my characters until they're staring at their afterlife version of the pearly gates. Surrendering is an option and so is, afterwards, escape. Though that may vary based on what kind of character I play.

Total loss of all my character's belongings isn't that much of speed bump. I've still got my ranks in craft(x) or profession(x), or even perform(x), and will eventually be able to work my way back to where I was. The game isnt over until it is over.

Otherwise, I full endorse this DM's use of overwhelming tactics + the chance of victory in order to facilitate PC capture. As a player, I would definately appreciate being forwarned about this battle for many reasons and can make sure it doesn't interfer with how I roleplay the character. I get the most enjoyment out of the game by seeing how the characters react and develop from a pencil-thin outlines to fully stylized and colored persons.

denthor
2013-02-06, 07:46 PM
In second edition A D &D the party was captured and put in a prison that was underground with out any equipment. They were to powerful to deal with and this was considered a way to kill them in a James Bond type trap.

They were teleported in knock out and drugged. No weapons no armor and they did not know where they were.

Cleric's had there spells after 24 hours Mages had what was left no books.

Design an escape route they used a river that fed into the cave the Drow never swam up. They can find sling stones and clubs to fight with. Low level monsters shriekers, giant crab Giant Bats and the like nothing to difficult.

They have to search for a way out in a ten room dunguen.