Playing Dirty: Dishonorable Tricks for the rest of us.

[Snowbluff]

:mad:FIGHTING DIRTY:mad:

Foreward
Tome of Battle is great. It really is. Melee needs it. How often do you get use it, though? If you answered "They banned it", then this manual is for you! Here I will compile and rate alternate options for getting something other than X amount of damage on the field for your non-casters.

Rating System:
Purple: This is as good as is gets. This option gives you a lot of bang for your actions.
Teal: A very good option. A solid choice. I won't use blue so the color is free for sarcasm. I will need it.
Black: Not the best. Most of what is here will be good, save for a crippling flaw or circumstance.
Red: Either the Mods are marking my book, or Monks happened. That's a bad thing.

Sources scoured:

Coming up: Disarm, Grapple, Trip, Bullrush. They are not what I am talking about, since you already know them, but they are obligatory.

[Snowbluff]

FEATS

The Big 4 Feats
And the other 2 no one talks about.


Improved Trip: (Relevant Debuff: Prone (www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_prone&alpha=P))
Knock the target over. This what I want you to think when I say "purple". The debuff may not be the best, but it doesn't actually cost any actions, since you get another attack after you make your trip. Like the other feats in this section, it has a pretty good amount of support. Also, the +4 and not allowing Attacks of Opportunity when tripping while not unarmed are pretty good as well.

Knockdown (Sword and Fist): Free trip attempts for hitting people. It's only black unless your DM lets you get free attacks via Improved Trip and tripping them while they are down.

Sandsnare (Sandstorm): If you trip someone while they are in loose dirt, sand or dust, it is a full action for them to get up. Teal if you are in a setting where this is usually the case.



Improved Bullrush:
I've always imagined this being like a tackle. Pretty much you run into the guy and push him some squares, provoking attack along the way. Into some lava. Make sure to fire proof yourself. The feat gives you the trusty +4 and removes the Attacks of Opportunity the defender. Has some nice support, and requires Power Attack, which is pretty good.

Knockback (Races of Stone): Never use the Bullrush option again. It requires Large size or Powerful build, which can be found through races like Goliath or Half-Giant. Each of your power attacks allow you to make a free bullrush attempt with a bonus, but you don't move with your target. If you have reach, it can be used for a AoO based control, as well.

Improved Grapple: (Relevant Debuffs: Grappling (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_grappling&alpha=G), Pinned (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_pinned&alpha=P))
This close to being crap. When it works, you take someone out of the fight, someone who could potentially be a caster. Otherwise, you are effectively taking yourself out of the fight to stop an enemy's movement. Your modifier can get really high really quickly, but grappling is easily defeated, anyway. Freedom of Movement shuts grappling down at level 7. Monsters that don't outnumber you will have really high grapple mods due to their sizes. Taking advantage of size increases will usually involve the intervention of another player who can cast (this handbook assumes this is not the case).

Improved Disarm (Relevant Debuff: "I got your stuff! Hahaha!")
When this works, it works. Disarming is in the same boat as grappling in a lot of ways. Classes that do not need weapons to kill you are immune to this strategy. Monsters that fight without weapons are safe from you, as well. On the other hand, disarming is pretty good in campaigns that take place in an urban environment. You can snatch loose objects as well. Finally, if you make your disarm with an unarmed strike, you take the object in hand. The feat removed the Attack of Opportunity and give the trusty +4 n the opposed attack roll.


The Other 2

Improved Overrun: Overrun is like low level tumbling. It lets you move through a person's square, and possibly make them prone. Your opponent can choose to let you by, so you don't always have to make a check to get through. It seems like this feat forces your opponent to make the check every time. This is great is you will always succeed, but you will probably not.

Trample: Here we go. This is much better use of a feat. Your mount is a size larger than you are, and it makes charging through choke points possible. Essentially, this feat is an improvement in every way from Improved Overrun for mounted, even if it forces a check.

Improved Feint: A rogue's best friend. While feinting certainly has its limitations, denying Dex to AC allows you to make use of other options like Sneak Attack.

[Snowbluff]

Reserved the Second

[Snowbluff]

Reserved the Third

[ddude987]

This is quite exciting, I am actually in a Tomb of Battle banned and I'm the only noncaster in the party omfgwtfbbq do I do campaign. Bookmarked!

[Nettlekid]

This does sound interesting. I'm in a similar situation in which our party has one proper caster, ranged support as a warlock, and three melee types who gang up on stuff well. I'm a Factotum (with like 5 or 6 1 level dips here and there) and I do pitiful damage, so I'd love to get suggestions about how to stir up trouble without just stabbing stuff. Is this going to be like, Sleight of Hand stealing spellbooks and spell component pouches, stuff like that?

[Amidus Drexel]

Interested to watch the handbook accumulate things, certainly.

I would, at the very least, like to hear the rest of the third sentence. :smalltongue:

@v :smallbiggrin:

[Palanan]

I think the third sentence viscerally represents the cruel truncation of hopes and possibilities when a certain source is banned.

:smallbiggrin:



In all seriousness, I'm really looking forward to this as well.

[Greenish]

As useful resources, I'd like to mention Person_Man's Haberdash the Masked (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88633) (on the subject of exotic weapons, not all of which require proficiency to be useful) and my Flat-footing Compendium (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186283) (with special mention to the fact that flat-footed enemies can't use immediate actions or AoO, in addition to the other inconveniences). Both refer to Complete Scoundrel's Skill Tricks, which probably warrant their own section.

Oh, and Darrin's Shax's Indispensable Haversack (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148101) is an ode to the trickery that can be achieved even with cheap, mostly non-magical items.

[Snowbluff]

I am glad people are excite, but I think someone ha done this already. I think I'll write it up anyway, but I'd rather start with the stuff I can find.

[Chilingsworth]

Would any of the tricks you have in mind also improve a ToB character? If so, could you call out any areas that synergize especially well with them?

[Snowbluff]

Would any of the tricks you have in mind also improve a ToB character? If so, could you call out any areas that synergize especially well with them?

I will rate them on how well they work in general. These ratings won't preclude use of ToB classes, even if the handbook is being made with those who do not benefit from ToB in mind.

[Flickerdart]

Horizon Tripper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80415) seems like a thing that would be useful.

[ddude987]

I don't mean to be rude, but is this dead? Or was it moved somewhere else?

[Snowbluff]

Well, looking at the interest it has stirred up, I've decided to go ahead.

[ddude987]

Well, looking at the interest it has stirred up, I've decided to go ahead.

Awesome, I'm excited.

[Morcleon]

Ah, so this isn't dead? Sweet. Looking forward to how this turns out. :smallsmile:

Now, first two suggestions of the day. :smallwink:
1. You need to bold "Purple:" and "Teal:".
2. It's "Foreword". Alternatively, it could be "Forward", but I don't think that was your intended meaning. :smalltongue:

[Amidus Drexel]

Oh, I'd forgotten about this thread. Glad you still plan on doing this.

[Rubik]

Are we going to have such lovely items as aboleth mucus, chaos flasks, brown mold (with flaming arrows), and shapesand?

We could also have nasty uses for ambush/traps, such as those detailed here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8664950&postcount=25

And here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8665487&postcount=30

And here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8668478&postcount=36ff

(He has some excellent posts.)

[Snowbluff]

There will be an items section. Thanks for the resources, Rubik.

I might need to rename this a compendium.


Awesome, I'm excited.
Don't get excited just yet, I've decided to do the basic 4 (and other 2) from PHB first.


Ah, so this isn't dead? Sweet. Looking forward to how this turns out. :smallsmile:

Now, first two suggestions of the day. :smallwink:
1. You need to bold "Purple:" and "Teal:".
2. It's "Foreword". Alternatively, it could be "Forward", but I don't think that was your intended meaning. :smalltongue:
LIIIIIIIIIIST! *shakes fists in sky*


Here is how the feats are going to work. The feats will be listed, then I will put benefit feats (like Exotic Weapon Proficiency) underneath them.

[Rubik]

What about magic items, such as Quaal's feather tokens and wands? After all, any self-respecting martial character will have tons of weapons to add wand chambers to: two gauntlets, a two-handed weapon (or double-weapon, or a shield with shield spikes), armor spikes, sleeve blades, boot blades, braid blades, knee blades, and so on, and each of them can have a wand chamber holding a wand.

Even a 1 level dip in paladin or ranger can give you access to quite a few wands of really great spells, both healing and buffing, even though they can't cast them officially yet.

[Snowbluff]

For other trinkets, maybe. Wands? Since this is a melee handbook for people who are hurting on resources, it'll be low priority if I put it in.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127026) is a good non-ToB-specific melee reference.

[Morcleon]

LIIIIIIIIIIST! *shakes fists in sky*

Hauu... >.<

You never even do any of the things I put on the list anyway... :smallfrown:

I take it this focuses on mundane things over magic? You could always pore through the Realmshelp.net alchemical item list. Can't actually link it, but I'm sure you can find it easily enough. :smallwink:

[Snowbluff]

Hauu... >.<

You never even do any of the things I put on the list anyway... :smallfrown:

I take it this focuses on mundane things over magic? You could always pore through the Realmshelp.net alchemical item list. Can't actually link it, but I'm sure you can find it easily enough. :smallwink:

Ugh, I want a divorce! This friendship is over!

I bolded stuff! It's bolded! Is this enough bold?:smalltongue:

All in due time, Morcy.

[Morcleon]

Ugh, I want a divorce! This friendship is over!

I bolded stuff! It's bolded! Is this enough bold?:smalltongue:

All in due time, Morcy.

But why? What did I ever do to deserve this?

Yay, you actually did something I put on a list for you~! You get two tilde-exclamation points~! ^_^

So what are the two feats that no one ever talks about?

[Snowbluff]

But why? What did I ever do to deserve this?

So what are the two feats that no one ever talks about?

Oh god, the nagging! And the lists! Those lists haunt my dreams! Oh the lists! They are everywhere I go! It is the lists! They have been watching me!

Improved Sunder and Improved... Overrun? What the hell is this crap?! I know what it is, but it's a crummy feat for a rule I have never seen played. I did have to look it up.

[Morcleon]

Oh god, the nagging! And the lists! Those lists haunt my dreams! Oh the lists! They are everywhere I go! It is the lists! They have been watching me!

Improved Sunder and Improved... Overrun? What the hell is this crap?! I know what it is, but it's a crummy feat for a rule I have never seen played. I did have to look it up.

I- I'm sorry! I'll do better! I'll get rid of the lists! I don't need them anyway. I only need you. Please, stay!

Sunder is bleh, and Overrun is... curious, to say the least? I can't really see how useful it may be. Your target could just avoid you, after all.

[Snowbluff]

I- I'm sorry! I'll do better! I'll get rid of the lists! I don't need them anyway. I only need you. Please, stay!

Sunder is bleh, and Overrun is... curious, to say the least? I can't really see how useful it may be. Your target could just avoid you, after all.

It's too late, Morcleon. I will never love you. You have already been replaced with this teddy bear. Say hi, Satanos.

"HI"

I think you are supposed to get around the guy. What's the point of forcing the check if you just have to get past him? What if you fail? :smalleek:

[Amidus Drexel]

I think you are supposed to get around the guy. What's the point of forcing the check if you just have to get past him? What if you fail? :smalleek:

That always struck me as rather odd, that it forced them to make the check.

[Morcleon]

It's too late, Morcleon. I will never love you. You have already been replaced with this teddy bear. Say hi, Satanos.

"HI"

I think you are supposed to get around the guy. What's the point of forcing the check if you just have to get past him? What if you fail? :smalleek:

...no... no! Y- You promised! That w- we would be together. And now... now... *sha (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BreakTheCutie)tter* (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Yandere) ...no, we'll be together... We will always be together... ...maybe going all yandere on not-you is a bit too much? Eh, whatever. Not-me has always had yandere tendencies anyway. :smallwink:
Considering that Imp. Overrun removes the option of them just letting you past, I would say the point is to get around them, while making them prone. It's a strange combat option, but I guess it could be useful in some niche situations.

This is the WotC article on Overrunning (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/tt/20060314a)...


That always struck me as rather odd, that it forced them to make the check.

See above; article says that point of overrun is to knock them down. Of course, then it depends on how much you trust the article itself. :smalltongue:

[ArcturusV]

Huh. You know, myself (And DMs I've played with) used Overrun in Mounted Combat a lot, allowing you to run someone down, knock them down, and deal "Trample" damage on them all as part of a movement action. Which made it worthwhile. I'm not sure if it's official anywhere or not. I picked up the rule from another DM and used it as it was used by him. If it IS official somewhere, that could make Overrun very viable for it's own reasons. You get Mounted Combat with a Lance Charge on a Ride By Attack, with an Overrun which knocks them prone and deals extra damage. You just seriously messed someone up with a single turn.

[Snowbluff]

Ack! No! Save me Satanos!


Well, my problem is that if you want to overrun to use overrun to get around someone, it would be better if you didn't have to attempt a check every time. Or if you could just tumble.


Huh. You know, myself (And DMs I've played with) used Overrun in Mounted Combat a lot, allowing you to run someone down, knock them down, and deal "Trample" damage on them all as part of a movement action. Which made it worthwhile. I'm not sure if it's official anywhere or not. I picked up the rule from another DM and used it as it was used by him. If it IS official somewhere, that could make Overrun very viable for it's own reasons. You get Mounted Combat with a Lance Charge on a Ride By Attack, with an Overrun which knocks them prone and deals extra damage. You just seriously messed someone up with a single turn.

Yeah, I do not think it would work. You would not be making the overrun (you need the standard action to attack), but your mount might be able to.

Improved Overrun is going to be red. It's just not good.

FYI, I didn't include Improved Feint yet, because I am not sure if it'll have its own section yet.

[Shining Wrath]

Suggestions:
A mount with Trample.
Grapple FTW. Pin the caster, silence them, see how many spells they can cast.
Sunder is not so good on a weapon you may want to use or sell, but it is very worthwhile on a component pouch or a (un)holy symbol of an opposed alignment.

[Snowbluff]

Grapple will be black. The caster know FoM, or at least spells he can use while grappled, and monsters are better at it than you are.

[Morcleon]

Ack! No! Save me Satanos!


No... He won't be able to. Because you promised, senpai. You promised...


Well, my problem is that if you want to overrun to use overrun to get around someone, it would be better if you didn't have to attempt a check every time. Or if you could just tumble.

Yeah, I do not think it would work. You would not be making the overrun (you need the standard action to attack), but your mount might be able to.

Improved Overrun is going to be red. It's just not good.

I would expect nothing else. It's not even that good of a tactic in real life. :smallamused:


FYI, I didn't include Improved Feint yet, because I am not sure if it'll have its own section yet.

You should. It's decent for getting in sneak attack/stuff that needs no Dex to AC.


Suggestions:
A mount with Trample.
Grapple FTW. Pin the caster, silence them, see how many spells they can cast.
Sunder is not so good on a weapon you may want to use or sell, but it is very worthwhile on a component pouch or a (un)holy symbol of an opposed alignment.


Grapple will be black. The caster know FoM, or at least spells he can use while grappled, and monsters are better at it than you are.

Mhmm... grappling spellcasters really isn't that good. If they have FoM, you're screwed. You can't pin them same round you grapple them, which gives them one round to dimension hop/door out of there. Also, you assume that they're within reach. :smalltongue:

[Shining Wrath]

Huh. You know, myself (And DMs I've played with) used Overrun in Mounted Combat a lot, allowing you to run someone down, knock them down, and deal "Trample" damage on them all as part of a movement action. Which made it worthwhile. I'm not sure if it's official anywhere or not. I picked up the rule from another DM and used it as it was used by him. If it IS official somewhere, that could make Overrun very viable for it's own reasons. You get Mounted Combat with a Lance Charge on a Ride By Attack, with an Overrun which knocks them prone and deals extra damage. You just seriously messed someone up with a single turn.

A way to do this is Lance + Spirited Charge + Trample + Ride-by.

Charge! Attack with Lance, which has reach. If you hit (+2 to do so) inflict triple damage because of Spirited Charge. Because you have Ride-by attack, keep moving!
Move 10' further. Make your overrun attack. RAW, you use your mount's size (large) and strength (probably more than yours) for the opposed strength checks. If you win, mount makes a hoof or paw attack on your prone foe (because of Trample).
Carry on for twice your mount's base move if there's room because of Ride-by Attack.
Next round, repeat in the other direction.


As a rather extreme example, I just finished helping a friend create a knight. Who rides a magebred grizzly bear, having served in the Brelish military. The lance attack is (1d8+2)*3, for an average of 19.5 points damage. Then the bear makes the overrun, with 29 strength and size large, for +13 on the opposed strength check. If the overrun works, the bear gets a paw attack for 2d6 + 9, for an average of 16 points damage.

That's a possible 35.5 points damage (depending on AC of target) and knocking the foe down. Not too bad for a 6th level character, and Power Attack was not used.

[Shining Wrath]

No... He won't be able to. Because you promised, senpai. You promised...



I would expect nothing else. It's not even that good of a tactic in real life. :smallamused:



You should. It's decent for getting in sneak attack/stuff that needs no Dex to AC.





Mhmm... grappling spellcasters really isn't that good. If they have FoM, you're screwed. You can't pin them same round you grapple them, which gives them one round to dimension hop/door out of there. Also, you assume that they're within reach. :smalltongue:

A spellcaster who is dimension hopping or dooring is a caster who isn't turning me into a frog with Baneful Polymorph. That, then, is win. And if they don't hop / door out of the battle, I or a friend can attempt to grapple again.

Yes, catching up to casters can be difficult. Relying solely on grapple is a bad idea. Using grapple if the opportunity presents itself may or may not be a good idea.

[Menzath]

Lol neat. Yeah in a campaign right now w/a crusader and we are banning the book after this just for ease sake(the DM's, not ours). But we also have a fighter who went ranged and has ranged Pin and ranged Disarm.
Suprisingly good VS casters and alot of meele.
Ranged trip would be good if we fought non-flyers who were smaller than huge size, but we don't so he hasn't picked that up.

[Morcleon]

A spellcaster who is dimension hopping or dooring is a caster who isn't turning me into a frog with Baneful Polymorph. That, then, is win. And if they don't hop / door out of the battle, I or a friend can attempt to grapple again.

Yes, catching up to casters can be difficult. Relying solely on grapple is a bad idea. Using grapple if the opportunity presents itself may or may not be a good idea.

Or they could be using Dimension Jumper and just hit you with another thing with their standard. The point is, grappling isn't particularly useful in a typical 3.5 game. Most things will have bonuses enough to make yours seem trivial or FoM/teleportation.


Lol neat. Yeah in a campaign right now w/a crusader and we are banning the book after this just for ease sake(the DM's, not ours). But we also have a fighter who went ranged and has ranged Pin and ranged Disarm.
Suprisingly good VS casters and alot of meele.
Ranged trip would be good if we fought non-flyers who were smaller than huge size, but we don't so he hasn't picked that up.

Ranged Pin/Disarm/Trip are actually rather useful. The first is especially useful if you can fly and shoot them from above, pinning them to the ground.

[Shining Wrath]

Or they could be using Dimension Jumper and just hit you with another thing with their standard. The point is, grappling isn't particularly useful in a typical 3.5 game. Most things will have bonuses enough to make yours seem trivial or FoM/teleportation.



Ranged Pin/Disarm/Trip are actually rather useful. The first is especially useful if you can fly and shoot them from above, pinning them to the ground.

Grappling is not something I do often. I much prefer to hit casters with my great sword with Power Attack ramped up. Inflicting 3 or 4 times my ECL to a guy with 4 sided hit dice is almost always win-full.

Grapple does have uses. Our bard got Dominated the other day, I grappled her and pinned her down so she couldn't do anything stupid. Some animal companions / mounts / druid forms have grapple built in, like the above-mentioned magebred grizzly bear.

[Shining Wrath]

It's too late, Morcleon. I will never love you. You have already been replaced with this teddy bear. Say hi, Satanos.

"HI"

I think you are supposed to get around the guy. What's the point of forcing the check if you just have to get past him? What if you fail? :smalleek:

The point, such as there is, of Overrun is that you get your full move rather than the half move of Tumble.

Sundering weapons is normally not a good use of your turn. Sundering a mage's component pouch or an evil cleric's unholy symbol can be full of win.

[Snowbluff]

You can tumble at full speed with a penalty.

[Chambers]

Here's a fairly useful combo that can fit into most any melee builds.

Class Feature: Sneak Attack +1d6
Feat: Craven
Feat: Staggering Strike

With +1d6 of Sneak Attack and these two feats any melee character has a good chance of debuffing enemies while he/she attacks them, instead of sacrificing an attack to debuff.

The combo works better at higher levels but is useful even when it first becomes available. A single classed Rogue can have it by 9th level. Craven adds your Character Level as a damage bonus to your Sneak Attacks and Staggering Strike requires a creature hit by your Sneak Attack to make a Fort save or be Staggered for 1 Round. The Fort save DC equals the damage dealt.

A 9th level Rogue's damage for a single sneak attack would be 5d6+9 plus whatever weapon he/she is using. The average damage from the sneak attack alone will be 24. Add in a few more points of damage from the weapon and the enemy will have to make a Fort save DC in the high 20's, possibly low 30's. That's a pretty steep Fort save for 9th level Monsters to make. Even a Frost Giant (CR 9) only has a +14 Fort save. If the DC is 30, they're failing it more than half the time.

Staggered is a pretty useful status condition to impose on someone. Someone who is Staggered can only take a single Move OR Standard action each round, nor can they take Full-Round Actions. Congratulations; you've reduced the number of the enemies actions at no action cost to yourself.

For those who don't want to be Rogues or take Craven, all you really need is +1d6 of Sneak Attack and the Staggering Strike feat. The DC is determined by total damage dealt (not just your sneak attack damage), so a Barbarian or Fighter that somehow acquired sneak attack can Charge/Power Attack for massive damage and trigger a Fort Save with a DC in the triple digits.

As an addendum, I feel that this combo is best when combined with another action denying tactic, such as tripping. If you sneak attack someone with the free attack you get after succesfully tripping and they fail their Fort save, they are now Staggered and Prone which further reduces your enemies actions.

[Snowbluff]

This is something this is on pretty much all of my characters. It's what I am talking about in this handbook. :smallwink:

You'll have to give me some time to finish this, since I am in school right and work right now. :smalltongue:

[Morcleon]

Elusive Target is a fun feat for those who have already taken Dodge/Mobility. :smallsmile:

Also, I found this melee resource (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235631) that you may want to look into. :smallwink:

[elonin]

Doesn't staggering strike reduce your sneak attack dice by 1d6?

Also, not sure if any players actually take the mounted combat feat, since it is setting dependent. But the ability to replace your mounts ac with your ride check. There has to be a way to use another pc as a mount. Bear Calvary anyone?

[Morcleon]

Doesn't staggering strike reduce your sneak attack dice by 1d6?

Also, not sure if any players actually take the mounted combat feat, since it is setting dependent. But the ability to replace your mounts ac with your ride check. There has to be a way to use another pc as a mount. Bear Calvary anyone?

Nope! :smallbiggrin:

It's not that setting dependent. Just get a multipurpose mount, like, oh I don't know, your party druid? :smalltongue::smallwink::smallbiggrin:

[ArcturusV]

Minotaur Cohort? Werebear Teammate? Dragon who can shapechange?

[Cirrylius]

Minotaur Cohort? Werebear Teammate? Dragon who can shapechange?
Hasted Gelatinous Cube with Ooze Saddle?

"Don't worry guys, we've got plenty of time before..."
*ZOOM*
"WAAAAAGH!!"
*SPLUT*

[Snowbluff]

I had a DM who gave a cube overland flight...:smalleek:

[Rubik]

Warbeasts are CHEAP. You can get a titanic riding bat (Gargantuan sized with 25 HD) for 1,975 gp, and it will act as your mount and everything.

There's a collar in the Arms & Equipment Guide for a nominal fee that will make your Godzilla-bat Small size, but it'll keep all of its ability adjustments and everything.

"Sic 'em, Fruity!"

[Snowbluff]

Okay, sorry for not updating in over... a month? Okay. I'll add some notes on Trample under overrun.

[killem2]

I think this could also be a great handbook to expand on what classes variants accent dirty fighting.

[Snowbluff]

I think this could also be a great handbook to expand on what classes variants accent dirty fighting.

Things like Drow fighter and PrCs like Scarlet Corsair will be getting sections as well.

[Fouredged Sword]

Get a monkey, train in in riding, switching out it's first level feat and skillpoints for ranks in ride (cross class) and mounted combat.

Get 5-6 of them riding on your back (they are tiny monkeys!). Get yourself a masterwork backpack saddle!

Now whenever someone attacks you the monkeys all make ride checks to negate the damage!

I call it the monkey mount dodge!

[killem2]

I would like to add the Exoticist Fighter Variant from dragon magazine, it allows four free EWP feats, and still has a fairly robust amount of fighter bonus feats available, and you can get basically manuevers (they aren't called manuevers though) in place of fighter bonus feats.

Helps get access to those good weapons for dirty fighting. :)

[limejuicepowder]

Get a monkey, train in in riding, switching out it's first level feat and skillpoints for ranks in ride (cross class) and mounted combat.

Get 5-6 of them riding on your back (they are tiny monkeys!). Get yourself a masterwork backpack saddle!

Now whenever someone attacks you the monkeys all make ride checks to negate the damage!

I call it the monkey mount dodge!

You'd have to OP-out their ride skills pretty hard to make this actually work. I would definitely allow it though, as long as I wasn't playing a horror campaign.

Someone above mentioned it already, but Elusive Target is my favorite feat that I never actually take, due to the double-whammy of dodge and mobility being attached to it. Still, I get a laugh every time I think of the awesomeness of this feat.

[Shining Wrath]

Remember it is possible to have non-horse mounts.
My party includes a knight riding a bear. A magebred Grizzly bear (Eberron).
IIRC grapple is +19 and is a free attempt on any paw hit.
Recent battle he pawed an enemy caster and took them out of the battle. Caster didn't have Dimension Hop or similar ready and was pinned after one round of poking ineffectually at an AC 28 bear with a dagger.

Relative to this thread, the point is that grapple can be very nice, just probably not for a PC.