help, i need an anti TPK char concept

[scurv]

I'm about to start playing in a friend of a friends campaign, And he has a bad habit of engineering TPK's Not that I am complaining to much, But I need idea's on a good evasion char. and I am not as familiar with that system as i could be.
I'll be Playing a rogue, I have 4 levels to work with and very little idea how to proceed to build a smart one in 3.5. I know some about the system from NWN2 but Building a char on that your hands are held.

Stealth is the focus, followed by run for my life. Followed by combat. I know traps and locks should be in there, But mo works those by the power of plot so skill level score will be pointless there (it just needs to not suck)

[Mnemnosyne]

Are you trying to improve a rogue specifically, or trying to create a character that is highly likely to prevent a TPK? Because, a rogue is not really a great character for accomplishing that latter task, most of the time. That is to say, a rogue can be made better, so it can contribute in many situations, but it is unlikely to have the variety of options needed in order to respond to almost every situation with a way to win or at least draw.

[Gavinfoxx]

Yea, if you want to prevent TPK's, you need a character that doesn't scream "OVERPOWERED!" (ie, no obvious big numbers going on for a newbie GM to nerf or whatever), but has a whooooole lot of tricks to pull on that can win encounters that should have overpowered the character.

In other words, you need a Wizard. And not just ANY Wizard, either...

[NekoJoker]

what the above post are trying to say is that you need to become batman:

handy link right here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104002

now, that is on how to play a crazy prepared fullcaster, you want a rogue that can ecape from every uncomfortable situation right?

wel... that's a bit to broad, mind telling us what kind of shenanigans we might expect fro your would be killer GM?

[Drogorn]

How stuck on a rogue are you? Because there are stealthy-type options that are way better.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

I'd advise against Wizard- by level 4, you just won't have the resources to be all that durable.

If you can swing it, I would aim to be a Warforged Monk or Artificer. Being Warforged gives you a pretty long list of immunities, including poison and bleeding out, and lets you be "Healed" by arcane magic. Monks have Evasion, stealth and excellent saves, while Artificers can make all of the cool defensive items- and, perhaps more importantly, grant armor enchantments that can make a huge difference.

I can't remember if it's possible by 4th level, but I know that Artificers can enchant a suit of armor that lets the bearer use "Dimension Door" twice per day- that alone could be enough to get out of most nasty situations.

[scurv]

Well, I'm stuck on trap monkey duty for this party, But to put in to perspective.
in 15 years with DM's other then Mo, I think i have had maybe a dozen TPK's and most of them was us the players being special and paying our stupid tax And most of those were in barracks games when I was enlisted.

But Mo from what I have known him for, And what I have heard Enjoys the one wrong move and you are dead style of DMing. (It has been about 7 years ...where does the type go)

But Some mo classics:
Poison gas that leaks out of the barrals you have on your cart forcing the party to make a fort check an hour but does not kill you until you are several days away,

zombie mosquito,

Ball down the hallway,

Suicide wizard on a cart of Greek fire oil,

Party getting snuck up on by an army of undead lead by a litch,

Forest fire caused by some wizard who thought fireball was a good spell to cast in a crackling dry forest...because those rangers who warned him were overprotective, But how else do you deal with bezerker trolls who have plus 3 vorpal swards

Dungon that seals you in as you go and that begins to fill with water at the first missed trigger. Things like that.

[The Glyphstone]

This is not a situation you can solve IC, if 'undead army led by lich', and 'troll barbarians with +3 vorpal swords' are what DM Moe typically uses against a level 4 party.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

Well, I'm stuck on trap monkey duty for this party, But to put in to perspective.
in 15 years with DM's other then Mo, I think i have had maybe a dozen TPK's and most of them was us the players being special and paying our stupid tax And most of those were in barracks games when I was enlisted.

But Mo from what I have known him for, And what I have heard Enjoys the one wrong move and you are dead style of DMing. (It has been about 7 years ...where does the type go)

But Some mo classics:
Poison gas that leaks out of the barrals you have on your cart forcing the party to make a fort check an hour but does not kill you until you are several days away,

zombie mosquito,

Ball down the hallway,

Suicide wizard on a cart of Greek fire oil,

Party getting snuck up on by an army of undead lead by a litch,

Forest fire caused by some wizard who thought fireball was a good spell to cast in a crackling dry forest...because those rangers who warned him were overprotective, But how else do you deal with bezerker trolls who have plus 3 vorpal swards

Dungon that seals you in as you go and that begins to fill with water at the first missed trigger. Things like that.

Warforged would be flat-out immune to three out of seven.

[Alejandro]

Well, I'm stuck on trap monkey duty for this party, But to put in to perspective.
in 15 years with DM's other then Mo, I think i have had maybe a dozen TPK's and most of them was us the players being special and paying our stupid tax And most of those were in barracks games when I was enlisted.

But Mo from what I have known him for, And what I have heard Enjoys the one wrong move and you are dead style of DMing. (It has been about 7 years ...where does the type go)

But Some mo classics:
Poison gas that leaks out of the barrals you have on your cart forcing the party to make a fort check an hour but does not kill you until you are several days away,

zombie mosquito,

Ball down the hallway,

Suicide wizard on a cart of Greek fire oil,

Party getting snuck up on by an army of undead lead by a litch,

Forest fire caused by some wizard who thought fireball was a good spell to cast in a crackling dry forest...because those rangers who warned him were overprotective, But how else do you deal with bezerker trolls who have plus 3 vorpal swards

Dungon that seals you in as you go and that begins to fill with water at the first missed trigger. Things like that.

You shouldn't be trying to make a PC that can survive, you should be finding a different GM. Sounds like a jerk.

[scurv]

It is past exploits, But it seems a warforged rogue might be how I am going. Although some of those were used on partys of significantly higher level.

But as a point of consideration, Mo is the reason why all my content is in writeing. If he was not such a fun DM i would pass on it, But TPK or not his groups are hella fun to play in...and i am tired of DMing

[Gavinfoxx]

Consider that Factotum and Psychic Rogue are better than normal Rogue...

Here are some classes that, a one level dip will get you trapfinding:

Ranger 1, via Dungeonscape
Rogue 1
Beguiler 1, Player's Handbook 2
Ninja 1, Complete Adventurer
Scout 1, Complete Adventurer
Spellthief 1, Complete Adventurer
Artificer 1, Eberron Campaign Setting, disable traps
Factotum 1, Dungeonscape
Kobold domain, Races of the Dragon, web enhancement

I made a very skills-y Cleric that can disable traps and such:

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=292794

[Mnemnosyne]

I'd say if the reason you're going rogue is for trap duty, you should instead go Artificer. You get trapfinding, and you also get to have more options than anyone else. It's kinda heavy on the bookkeeping, but...when you can access every spell in the game, you're in the best position to prevent a TPK.

Spell Storing Item, a first-level artificer infusion, even gives you access on the fly to any spell up to 4th level. So, any situation that comes up, if you can think of a spell up to 4th level that will solve the problem, you can have that spell ready in 1 minute. Or in 1 round, if you hasten the infusion with an action point or the feat to do that.

[nedz]

Warforged Scout — Rogue 2 / Warlock 2

Living Construct
• Immune to Poison, Sleep, Paralysis, Disease, Nausea, Fatigue, Exhaustion, Sickening, and Energy Drain.
• Does not Eat, Sleep, or Breath.
• Does not naturally heal.
• Conjuration(healing) spells only heal ½ hp.
• Can be ‘healed’ by a Craft check — armorsmithing, blacksmithing, gemcutting, & sculpting. A Warforged may repair itself.

Being small is good for stealth.

Gets you Evasion, Det Magic at Will and two least invocations which can get you lots of things. Obvious options :-

Shatter at will
See Invisible and Darkvision
Spiderclimb and Immune to Webs
Comprehend languages, +6 Spot and +6 Search


Oh and you have a laser.

[Acanous]

If you must go Rogue, go Rogue 2 for Evasion into Crusader for the delayed damage pool and situational limitless healing.

There's also a Crusader or Warblade way ro make yourself use perform checks instead of Saves, but I can't remember where that's at.

[Krazzman]

If you must go Rogue, go Rogue 2 for Evasion into Crusader for the delayed damage pool and situational limitless healing.

There's also a Crusader or Warblade way ro make yourself use perform checks instead of Saves, but I can't remember where that's at.

Maneuvers, Concentration in place of Will/Ref/Fort Save.

I would say either Rogue 1 or 2 and Warlock.

Warlock gives you a few things that are quite cool. Later, at Warlock level 6 you get your first bigger invocation where you can choose: Flying at will, Dimension Door with an Illusion to distract from yourself, Invisibility at will, Animating Zombies (possibility of an Undead flying mount).

Hope this helps for later levels.

[prufock]

If you're stuck with "trap monkey" duty, but not necessarily rogue, I'd suggest Beguiler, going into Unseen Seer for some extra divination spells.

Alternatively, how about Factotum 1/Wizard 3, then take a couple more Factotum levels before finishing off Wizard/full-casting PrC? Factotum gives you trapfinding, you're ALL about Int, and you get some spells, which can include Knock. Take some Font of Inspiration feats. You want anti-TPK? Lesser Celerity is only a 2nd-level wizard spell, grab it asap. You can go into Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil eventually, to be nigh-unkillable.

Oh, and play a Warforged. You get some decent immunities. Wiz 2/Binder 1/Anima Mage 10 is a good "don't get killed" build too, but not so much with the trapfinding.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Eh, you can be completely immune to all forms of harm by level 9 as a Wizard, if you *really* want to, although it does require Lesser Planar Binding cheese.

DM: Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies.
You: Fine, I wait until tomorrow and re-summon another Astral Projection from my personal demi-plane
DM: ...

[The Glyphstone]

Eh, you can be completely immune to all forms of harm by level 9 as a Wizard, if you *really* want to, although it does require Lesser Planar Binding cheese.

DM: Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies.
You: Fine, I wait until tomorrow and re-summon another Astral Projection from my personal demi-plane
DM: ...

How are you casting Genesis at level 9?

[Slipperychicken]

Worship the DM. Sacrifices of pizza, beer, young virgin maidens, 20$ bills, and paying attention to his plot are strongly recommended.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

How are you casting Genesis at level 9?

Either Scroll or Candle of Invocation to summon me something else that can.

[Gavinfoxx]

How are you casting Genesis at level 9?

That's a really good question... I'm sure there's a way, of course. Planar Bind something that can cast it?

[Shining Wrath]

The best way to skill monkey with survivability is probably not rogue, as noted.

Artificer or Factorum, and maybe dip Barbarian for D12 HP + Uncanny dodge at level 2.:smallsmile:

[Gavinfoxx]

Factorum

FACTOTUM! Arghhh...

[herrhauptmann]

FACTOTUM! Arghhh...

Might be a tablet with autocorrect, or a cellphone.

To the OP,
The wizard with the forestfire. Was that spell cast by a partymember, or an NPC? If the former, don't play with stupid people. If the latter, DM was a jerk.

Out of curiosity, how does a zombie mosquito cause a TPK?
Was it a special type zombie? Bite you, and turn you into a zombie like in most movies?

[rot42]

If level adjusting templates are on the table, consider Dark (Tome of Magic 161) for Hide in Plain Sight. Losing a large fraction of your hit points, BAB, and Reflex save might be too costly, though it can be mitigated. The Hidden Talent feat (Expanded Psionics Handbook 67) can give you 20 temporary HP per day with Vigor (the power, not the spell). The feat Shape Soulmeld (Magic of Incarnum 40) can make up for Uncanny Dodge with immunity to flanking using Threefold Mask of the Chimera; this soulmeld improves your Search and Spot checks as well if you have a source of essentia.

One level of Wizard gets you the Abrupt Jaunt alternative class feature (PHB II 70) for immediate action teleports, but uses per day is Int based. Probably does not match your character concept, but worth considering. Hidden Talent can come in handy here again with Dimension Hop (Complete Psionic 83) for Swift action short range teleports. Shape Soulmeld can give you *very* limited flight (Airstep Sandals) or teleportation (Blink Shirt). A Shadow Cloak (Drow of the Underdark 101, gives immediate action teleports out of danger) costs slightly more than your Wealth By Level, but a Panic Button of Escaping (Complete Scoundrel 115) gives you a single use short range Dimension Door for 750 gp.

If you can run with a Monk/Rogue, the Monk can trade Evasion for Immediate action short term invisibility (Invisible Fist, Exemplars of Evil 21) and better saves never hurt anyone.

This may be wandering entirely too far from your character concept, but my favorite low level "don't die" build binds Dahlver-Nar (Tome of Magic 27, requires a level of Binder and a feat) with a Psion - Vigor/Share Pain combo all day at level 2. Make sure to buy your friendly neighborhood Wizard a wand of Repair Light Damage.