Looking for an arcane PrC 1-level dip

[Phelix-Mu]

Alright, my Int-based monk 17/conjurer 1/abjurant champion is going to finish abjurant champion one level short of being able to cast 4th level spells from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. Banned schools are evocation and enchantment. Please, no comments on existing op level, I'm well appraised of the limitations of the build.

Supposing I at some point judge 4th level sor/wiz spells worth acquiring, what would be a good prc to pick up for a single level dip for an additional level of arcane spellcasting? No feat taxes, please, my build is already out of feats to spare. She's LG and pretty much has to stay that way (Carmendine Monk). Key to the build is frequent use of teleport effects, via Immediate Magic (Abrupt Jaunt), benign transportation with familiar, magic items, etc. The synergy is Sun School's final tactic, Stunning Fist whenever possible. The theme is rapid movement, as her speed is 220' with items, and I'm possibly going to use sparring dummy of the master to get a 10' step instead of 5' step (gotta run this by the DM, 3.0 item *fingers crossed*)

As for future plans, I don't really intend to pursue high-level arcane casting, unless someone can talk me out of it. Current plan was to switch to archivist, which would serve a supportive role for the party (no one in the party casts from the cleric spell list). If I did go for arcane, I was considering Master of the East Wind, but as I already have Obtain Familiar and we are at epic levels, so BAB and Saves are standardized no matter what class prc is taken.

Anyway, enough background. Thanks in advance for the help.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Paragnostic Apostle, Complete Champion. Pick which one of its class features you get at a given level, take Mind Over Matter for an extra +2 AC from (Greater) Luminous Armor, or Spatial Awareness for an extra +10 ft. movement out of Haste or Elation.

[Lord_Gareth]

Alienist!

...Well, okay, if I'm being serious I'd say, "Can you qualify for Sacred Fist?"

EDIT: Erm, Enlightened Fist. My bad.

[Phelix-Mu]

Alienist!

...Well, okay, if I'm being serious I'd say, "Can you qualify for Sacred Fist?"

If I'm taking it after the archivist level (should I go that route), the answer is yes. The question at hand was more about picking up a 7th wizard caster level to net 4th level sor/wiz spells. Basically, is it worth it and how should I do it?

Sacred Fist would be much more compelling if I weren't already getting most of the benefits. Not clear to me if identical class features from separate classes stack, but I guess they would, and likely the AC bonus from Sacred Fist would still be geared to Wisdom.

@Furiou: Will check up on that class again. Good Int flavor, but I'm not sure that I need more AC (like 57 atm, swift action to give myself 66 with shield spell...bard buffs raise my AC into the stratosphere...can't really have too much AC, though). My speed is sickening, but again, the more the merrier.

Forgot to specify: I'm the party tank. I might be able to swallow a single d4 HD, but larger HD is a big pro in my calculus.

[Phelix-Mu]

Alienist!

...Well, okay, if I'm being serious I'd say, "Can you qualify for Sacred Fist?"

EDIT: Erm, Enlightened Fist. My bad.

The answer is yes, but, while Ki Strike(magic) would be nice since I traded it for the CompChamp ACF, no spellcaster level at first (even by text) is probably not going to work. The DM defaults to book, so I probably can't upgrade it to 10/10 spellcasting advancement.

Too bad, since Arcane Fist would be nice if I stuck with the PrC.

[Phelix-Mu]

Self-bump? I may need to iron this out in the next couple days, so further input would be great.

[Nettlekid]

If you can convince the DM to change alignment requirements (because they're annoying and restricting,) you could take a level of Mindbender. You just need a few small skill ranks, and the ability to cast Charm Person (which you could easily have). In return, you get an increase to caster level at level 1, and 100 ft Telepathy which is awesome in all ways. ESPECIALLY awesome if you can snag the Mindsight feat, but I know you're tough on feat slots.

Could you give us a list of the feats you do have, so we can see if you meet any prereqs as is?

Also, although 4th levels spells are pretty great (probably some of the best picks for the level are there, like Celerity, Enervation, and Polymorph) might you consider going another route and taking maybe some ToB class levels? Your high Int would synergize well with Warblade's Int to Reflex saves among other things, but Swordsage would offer you another way to get teleportation abilities without using up your uses from the Wizard. If I understand correctly, your build is Monk 17/Wizard 1/Abjurant Champion 5? That gives you an initiator level of 11 right there. With one level of either class you'd be grabbing 6th level maneuvers, which if you go Swordsage can nab you the standard action Shadow Jaunt and the move action Shadow Stride, both of which could act like free uses of Benign Transposition. Also Leaping Flame, which could work like a longer range Abrupt Jaunt. Two levels of Swordsage will get you the swift action Shadow Blink, as well as nabbing Wis to AC again. That sounds like it would blend well with your character. Not to mention you could grab other awesome things like Cloak of Deception, Emerald Razor, and Hearing the Air. All of which are useful and add to that magic monk feeling.

[Phelix-Mu]

Mindbender would be nice, but we have campaign-based freebie constant effect extraordinary true seeing. The party sorcerer routinely casts interplanar telepathic bond on the party members, and it last like 6 hours. Would be nice to have telepathy that can't be dispelled. That said, Carmendine Monk's alignment feature is setting-based, attached to my background, so I find it unlikely that he'll bend that way. Plus, he's already been pretty lenient by allowing Int to count as wisdom for all monk-flavored feats (Carmendine Monk actual wording is more narrow).

Feats, let's see if I can do it a capella:

1- Carmendine Monk, Stunning Fist (bonus), Imp. Unarmed Strike
2- Deflect Arrows (bonus)
3- Weapon Finesse
6- Knowledge Devotion, Combat Reflexes (bonus, flexible DM again)
9- Improved Natural Attack
12- Sun School
15- Combat Casting
18- Obtain Familiar, Scribe Scroll (bonus, may be traded for Martial Wiz variant bonus fighter feat)
21- Exceptional Deflection (epic)

The DM is hesitant to use books he doesn't have, and ToB is one of them. I might be able to sell him on it, but our group's experience with the book is bad to sketchy (though we were all much less experienced and gave it a half-hearted shot). Would prefer suggestions that don't include it.

[Vaz]

It's not a PrC, but Wu Jen gets you access to Body Outside Body and Giant Size Wands.

Have you heard of the Arcane Demonwrecker; it's a little obscure, but it gives you 1/day Spell Smite (attack roll spell gains Casting Stat bonus to its Attack and Damage), and +1 bonus to overcome Chaotic or Evil Outsiders Spellresistance. Requires Know; Planes and Spell Penetration, though.

Incantatrix is normally the typical one to go for, but if you can't get Incantatrix 3, then that's pointless.

[Nettlekid]

So many people on here ban ToB, but I have no idea why. It's awesome, it gives melee characters a better (still not equal by a long shot, but better) standing position with casters, and it's just awesome in practice. Maneuvers are tons of fun to use. It's almost always worth it to slip in two levels of Unarmed Swordsage to a Monk build. Although I see, you probably don't have a very high Wis, so that doesn't help too much. But the Shadow Hand maneuvers would still be good.

Are you planning to use your familiar pretty much solely for Benign Transposition, or do you have more plans for it? If the former, I suggest just grabbing a Summon Monster spell for minions, and freeing up the feat slot.

What is your main plan for this capper PrC, and what do you plan to do with your Wizard spells? If there's a non-caster PrC that does similar, it might warrant looking in to.

[Phelix-Mu]

So many people on here ban ToB, but I have no idea why. It's awesome, it gives melee characters a better (still not equal by a long shot, but better) standing position with casters, and it's just awesome in practice. Maneuvers are tons of fun to use. It's almost always worth it to slip in two levels of Unarmed Swordsage to a Monk build. Although I see, you probably don't have a very high Wis, so that doesn't help too much. But the Shadow Hand maneuvers would still be good.

Are you planning to use your familiar pretty much solely for Benign Transposition, or do you have more plans for it? If the former, I suggest just grabbing a Summon Monster spell for minions, and freeing up the feat slot.

What is your main plan for this capper PrC, and what do you plan to do with your Wizard spells? If there's a non-caster PrC that does similar, it might warrant looking in to.

Familiar is for scouting, Spot bonuses, communicating with others, utility, and teleport, also a bit of flavor. The caliber of enemies we are facing makes summoned creatures pretty non-useful, since they tend to get one-shotted, dispelled, or the like. I might be talked out of it, but the benefit would have to be pretty big. I am a big fan of out-of-combat utility.

Full disclosure, I guess. Here is my extremely humourous grey elf epic-level monk tank stats:

12 (no item yet, gonna fix that)
31 (+6 item and +5 inherent, +1 levels)
22 (+6 item and +5 inherent...was tanking with a 16 con a couple levels ago:smallamused: )
38 (+6 item, +5 inherent, +4 levels, +3 age)
14 (+3 age)
18 (+3 age)

Wall walker ACF, Prayerful Meditation, Holy Strike, think those are the big ones.

Martial wizard variant comes into play if I take archivist 1 in the future, since Scribe Scroll twice is useless.

Plans: Wow, well it seems wide open. Nothing is more useless than more monk, that is right out. I'd like to pick up the cleric spell list, since no one in party has it, but more arcane...eh. Was originally going to start either Ardent Dilettante or Mythic Exemplar with the intention of finishing it, but neither class is really giving me that "woot" feeling, if you know what I mean.

[Phelix-Mu]

Shameless self-bump to take advantage of the weekend crowd.

[Randomguy]

Paragnostic Apostle, Complete Champion. Pick which one of its class features you get at a given level, take Mind Over Matter for an extra +2 AC from (Greater) Luminous Armor, or Spatial Awareness for an extra +10 ft. movement out of Haste or Elation.

This seems like a good idea.

Swiftblade is a great speed based PrC, but it's not full casting and you don't have the feat prereqs anyway.

[Phelix-Mu]

So many people on here ban ToB, but I have no idea why. It's awesome, it gives melee characters a better (still not equal by a long shot, but better) standing position with casters, and it's just awesome in practice. Maneuvers are tons of fun to use. It's almost always worth it to slip in two levels of Unarmed Swordsage to a Monk build. Although I see, you probably don't have a very high Wis, so that doesn't help too much. But the Shadow Hand maneuvers would still be good.


I am taking another look at ToB. There is definitely a lot of strong options in there, though I might have to sell it to my DM, who has never used it before. Where in this large book (hate learning a new book by .pdf) do I find the rules that apparently let me combine existing melee class levels with initiator levels to reach a higher initiator level?

[Nettlekid]

Page 39, under Multiclass Characters. Basically, you can learn maneuvers and stances appropriate to your initiator level at the same rate a Wizard learns new spells, at 1/2(Initiator Level+1). But all non-initiator classes (any class that isn't Crusader, Swordsage, or Warblade) grants 1/2 its levels to an effective initiator level. So a level 4 Fighter counts as a level 2 initiator for purposes of feats and things. Were he to take a level in Warblade, he counts as a level 3 initiator and can take level 2 or lower maneuvers (as appropriate for a level 3 initiator), but using the Maneuvers and Stances Known of a 1st level Warblade (which he is).

[nedz]

You haven't specified your race, or if you did I missed it.
The relevant Paragon class might be useful — though this does depend upon your character's race ?

[Phelix-Mu]

She is a grey elf. As you can see, that meaningfully contributed to the humourous stats for someone that ended up being the party tank. In retrospect, not wise to make the sole melee class for the party a grey elf, but, eh, the flavor was right and it was key to the build. At least it was key back before I traded in Elven Generalist for Conjurer and Immediate Magic. In any case, I didn't know back at that stage that I was going to be the tank, and I shouldn't complain too much since the druid animal companion is pretty strong and the druid has summoning, obv, for extra bodies on the field. So far we are wiping the floor with the challenges, though largely thanks to epic bard-ness and greater mighty wallop.

Not at all familiar with the racial paragon classes. What would elven paragon give me? Not sure the DM is familiar either, and if it's UA I might need a good argument, since I don't think the DM has UA, and he likes to stick to stuff he can lay hands on (though if it's just a couple levels or so, I might be able to swing it).

ToB sounds really nice; the ability to count existing, unrelated class levels toward your IL is a robust mechanic, and makes swordsage a strong contender, even compared to archivist (which only nets me 1st level spells and the extremely exploitable prayerbook mechanic).

[nedz]

The racial paragon classes are here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/racialParagonClasses.htm).
The Elf one may not be all that good for you though.

[herrhauptmann]

Spellsword from C.War.
1 level is full casting, and full bab.

I don't know if you've got the armor proficiencies needed or not though.

[Phelix-Mu]

Spellsword from C.War.
1 level is full casting, and full bab.

I don't know if you've got the armor proficiencies needed or not though.

No armour proficiencies to speak of.

One level in elf paragon is hardly compelling, and three levels are only slightly moreso (only worth considering because Int is my key stat).

I have to get on my DM's case about ToB.

Any other suggestions? Suppose I were to trade out Obtain Familiar, what should I get in its place? How about a fighter feat to replace Scribe Scroll, as per Martial Wizard variant?

[Vaz]

Arcane Demonwrecker?

[Phelix-Mu]

I don't often find myself using spells that allow SR. When I want to hurt something, I usually just attack it. Half of the party does attack magic or summoning (sorcerer incantatrix and half-fey druid, all backed by sublime chord bard), so more of a party role thing than anything else.

Spell smite is good. Quite good. 1/day not so good. Having to take Spell Penetration in order to get it seems unwise.

Nice flavor, though. I slew a ridiculous number of fiends in the last battles, refreshing since I don't have to worry about the moral implications of fully throttling my offensive potential. Ah, the joys of LG and compassionate to boot.

[Phelix-Mu]

Looking more like Tome of Battle is the solution I'm looking for...even thinking of Jade Pheonix Mage later on if I want more arcane casting. For the time being, access to 6th level maneuvers is much better than access to 4th level arcane spells or 1st level divine (via the archivist idea I was thinking about before).

Any comments on how to optimize the above build with ToB? With an initiator level of 11, can I really pick all 6th level maneuvers?