Could Girard have trusted Soon more than he let on?

[Tragak]

Remember, he trusted Serini with the true location of his Gate and agreed to set up minimal communications so that everybody would know which Gates were destroyed. So is it possible that he agreed to have Serini tell Soon the true location if AND ONLY IF the Gates were in danger from an active threat? Otherwise, why would he have told her at all?

So if he knew that Soon would never go to the location on the map (due to Serini giving him the correct location before hand), was the whole monologue intended to make a villain who stole the map (but not the diary) think that the explosion was to kill Soon?

That way, even if the villain survived, he would be expecting Girard to be expecting Soon, not a villain, even though Girard would know that it wouldn't be Soon that he needed to worry about and would be better prepared than the villain thinks he will be.

Or is there something that completely contradicts this that I forgot?

[NerdyKris]

It's entirely possible that in the case of a known threat, Girard would have alerted Soon. However, we saw two gates get destroyed without any reaction from the Draketooth clan. Lirian clearly never sent word of Xykon once he was imprisoned, and had no fallback for alerting anyone if she died, other than the warning system. Dorukon was the same. The only guardian we know of knew nothing other than that the gates were destroyed, not any details.

The most likely result would have been exactly what's been happening. That the other guardians get alerted to a destroyed gate, but nothing else.

[Kish]

Uh. Let me see if I understand this correctly.

You propose that Girard assumed that, if the Gates were ever in danger, Serini would immediately contact Soon and tell him the real coordinates for Girard's Gate, before Soon could set out for where he thought Girard's Gate was. Correct?

[Tragak]

Uh. Let me see if I understand this correctly.

You propose that Girard assumed that, if the Gates were ever in danger, Serini would immediately contact Soon and tell him the real coordinates for Girard's Gate, before Soon could set out for where he thought Girard's Gate was. Correct?

Unless I'm forgetting something, yes. Am I?

EDIT: Missed NerdyKris's comment first time, but good point.

[Kish]

Unless I'm forgetting something, yes. Am I?
That would seem to make Girard even stupider and more given to acting on insupportable assumptions than the other explanations for his actions.

No one contacted the paladins of the Sapphire Guard with information from Girard or Serini. Not when Soon died, not when Girard died, not when the first or second or third Gate was destroyed. If Girard was betting everything that no one with legitimate business there would ever come to the coordinates he gave Soon...he sure didn't take steps to ensure that wouldn't happen.

Also, the Order is at the pyramid now because of sheer luck: After Shojo's directions brought them to the right continent, it turned out one group member's father had a lead on the Draketooths. If a villain had gone to the fake coordinates and triggered the trap, the logical next step for that villain would have been to track down Serini--since Girard helpfully mentioned that she knows the right coordinates--and torture her for them.

[Snails]

The only advantage of this hypothetical is if the villain is fooled into complacency, on the assumption that the guardians who should be working together are not, but the guardians secretly are working as a team.

Well, what hard evidence we have indicates that the guardians never work together, even after the destruction of one Gate, two Gates, or three Gates.

Girard's heir had plenty of time to contact the Sapphire Guard after the destruction of the third Gate but before Familicide spell. Where were they? Where is Serini now?

The Sapphire Guard and the Order are not difficult to contact, if one is in the know and willing to make any effort.

[denthor]

simple answer NO!!

Words were spoke in anger swords drawn, Spell were readied. Crayon says it all.

[Tragak]

Yeah, not my best idea. Never mind.

[Firemeier]

simple answer NO!!

Words were spoke in anger swords drawn, Spell were readied. Crayon says it all.

I'm not saying the OP's theory is likely to be true but the Crayons are hardly satisfactory proof against it. One reason that the Crayons Of Time are crayon drawings rather than the usual style of the comic, is to visually make the point that they are not factual representations of what happened, but depictions of Shojo's story, which is very much informed by Soon's view on the events.

And even if every word of the Crayons turned out to be true, there are strong hints that they don't show the whole truth (planet in the rift and all that).

[Draz74]

I'm not saying the OP's theory is likely to be true but the Crayons are hardly satisfactory proof against it. One reason that the Crayons Of Time are crayon drawings rather than the usual style of the comic, is to visually make the point that they are not factual representations of what happened, but depictions of Shojo's story, which is very much informed by Soon's view on the events.

And even if every word of the Crayons turned out to be true, there are strong hints that they don't show the whole truth (planet in the rift and all that).

QFT.

But I'm also curious how Girard thought a villain would get the fake coordinates from Soon, if Girard didn't give them out to anyone else.

Incidentally, you bring up a good tangential point: Why in the Nine Hells would Girard tell [Soon's assumed minion] that Serini has the correct coordinates? Wouldn't he prefer to keep it a complete secret that anyone knows the correct coordinates? Seems out of character for a sly illusionist like Girard.

Did Giant make Girard break character just so the Forums wouldn't go too nuts speculating whether Xykon is heading for the correct coordinates?

Or is Girard really a lot less cunning than we'd been led to believe? (Minions slain by Familicide notwithstanding, I've been less impressed with Girard's tricks than I expected to be. Maybe I'm still just disappointed that he didn't, as far as we know, double-bluff the actual location of the Gate with a "sorry, you fell for the wrong coordinates!" message.)

Or did Girard have a trickier reason for pointing his presumed foe in Serini's direction? Some scheme he and the halfling cooked up together? I hope this is the real answer.

[denthor]

Quote Draz74
Did Giant make Girard break character just so the Forums wouldn't go too nuts speculating whether Xykon is heading for the correct coordinates?

Incidentally, you bring up a good tangential point: Why in the Nine Hells would Girard tell [Soon's assumed minion] that Serini has the correct coordinates? Wouldn't he prefer to keep it a complete secret that anyone knows the correct coordinates? Seems out of character for a sly illusionist like Girard.

Second qoute first

I do not care how paranoid you are in distrusting Kings, politicians or party leaders. Serini was none of the above and made sense to this illusionist.

You have to trust someone other than family when you know your lifetime is limited. Since Serini strikes me as somewhat opposite of a Paladin. A Chaotic that distrusted a very lawful person could -and in this case appears to have put there- trust into someone that is more attuned to his way of thinking and closer alignment to his own. We have also seen twice now that the original party broke the agreement. Giriard with Serini and Dourkan was tonight is the night with the Elven druid. So I am now convince the only person that kept there word of non contact was the paladins.


First quote:
I think the talking illusion said that as a way of telling a Paladin where he put his faith in trust an inside joke we are not privy to.


Random thought:

The Crayons of time party:
was a Druid N(G)
Illiusionist CN
Paladin LG
Thief C()
Barbarian most likely C()
Mage NG at best

That is quite a bit of conflict for any group.

[zimmerwald1915]

You have to trust someone other than family when you know your lifetime is limited. Since Serini strikes me as somewhat opposite of a Paladin. A Chaotic that distrusted a very lawful person could -and in this case appears to have put there- trust into someone that is more attuned to his way of thinking and closer alignment to his own.
We know nothing of Serini's alignment, only that she was a Rogue and that she considered taking Paladin levels at some point in her career. That she was able to consider taking Paladin levels as casually as she did suggests either that the barriers for her entry into the class weren't terribly high (which would make her Lawful Good at least), or that she didn't know a heck of a lot about Paladin-hood.

[denthor]

We know nothing of Serini's alignment, only that she was a Rogue and that she considered taking Paladin levels at some point in her career. That she was able to consider taking Paladin levels as casually as she did suggests either that the barriers for her entry into the class weren't terribly high (which would make her Lawful Good at least), or that she didn't know a heck of a lot about Paladin-hood.


In my edit of random thoughts I take a stab at alignments of the original group. My guess as to Paladin career choice is Chaotic being just that I think I will try this...maybe not.

Thank you for being kind

[Mike Havran]

I believe that Girard held Serini in the highest esteem. He was willing to mention her in his recording because he was convinced she will handle any troubles that could come from a power-hungry epic paladin and a possible army of his zealots.

What we know from the crayons is only what Soon told (knew) about Serini. But Girard, mighty illusionist, rebel, and person with little trust to spare, could have seen and known much more...