9th level Spell choice

[Pickford]

Scenario: You are a Sorceror 12/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 6 and have just gained your 18th level to get a single 9th level spell.

What do you pick and why?

If you want to see a current spell list: (took feats to increase slots/spells known at some levels in case you're wondering)

0th - 9 spells known
1) Arcane Mark
2) Detect Magic
3) Detect Poison
4) Ghost Sound
5) Light
6) Message
7) Prestidigitation
8) Ray of Frost
9) Resistance

1st - 5 spells known
1) Benign Transposition
2) Ray of Clumsiness
3) Ray of Enfeeblement
4) Ray of Flame
5) True Strike

2nd - 5 spells known
1) Arcane Lock
2) Rainbow Beam
3) Ray of Ice
4) Ray of Stupidity
5) Resist Energy

3rd - 4 spells known
1) Dispel Magic
2) Protection from Energy
3) Rainbow Blast
4) Regal Procession

4th - 4 spells known
1) Assay Spell Resistance
2) Burning Blood
3) Polymorph
4) Voice of the Dragon

5th - 5 spells known (exra spell feat)
1) Blink, Greater
2) Duel Ward
3) Draconic Polymorph
4) Indomitability
5) Prismatic Ray

6th - 4 spells known (extra spell feat)
1) Disintigrate
2) Prismatic Aura
3) Ray of Light
4) Ruby Ray of Reversal

7th - 3 spells known
1) Prismatic Eye
2) Prismatic Spray
3) Limited Wish

8th - 3 spells known (extra spell feat)
1) Moment of Prescience
2) Planar Binding, Greater
3) Prismatic Wall

9th - 1 spell known
1) ???


Things I've considered: Imprisonment, Foresight, Shapechange, Wish.

I have largely throw aside Wish as I won't be able to give myself inherent +5 bonuses until 20th level so it would be the last spell I'd take.
I'm not a fan of spells that give saves.
Shapechange would require alot of digging through the MM to find interesting forms. In it's favor I really loved the sequence in Sword in the Stone of the wizard's duel.

Edit: Foresight has extra utility in that I would know exactly what warding to throw up as an immediate action. So effectively I would be unkillable.

[Psyren]

Time Stop imo

[eggynack]

Probably shape change. It's the most versatile, and as a sorcerer, versatility of spells known is key.

[Pickford]

I considered Time Stop briefly...there are alot of uses, but you can't harm anyone, so I'd at best be able to open up a pit 50 feet deep using disintigrate, they would fall and take 5d6 damage, assuming they didn't have featherfall memorized (using a scroll or item would be a standard action...i.e. too slow).

[Kazyan]

Shapechange. It's not even a question. Foresight prevents you from being suprised, yeah, but with the staple forms alone, Shapechange wins. Dire Tortiose. Hydras. Gloura. (What? Unearthy Grace on a Sorcerer, anybody?) All kinds of grappletastic creatures. Any movement mode, Hide checks like whoa, Regeneration, swapping immunities on the fly, etc.. And I'm not even terribly good with this stuff; the rest of the playground can certainly give you more.

[Pickford]

Don't I keep my terrible HP though?

[Psyren]

I considered Time Stop briefly...there are alot of uses, but you can't harm anyone, so I'd at best be able to open up a pit 50 feet deep using disintigrate, they would fall and take 5d6 damage, assuming they didn't have featherfall memorized (using a scroll or item would be a standard action...i.e. too slow).

Well, you more use it to buff up and drop several veils with impunity. (And summon, usually, but you don't seem to have a lot of those.)

Shapechange is good too, just look for some common useful forms ahead of time and you won't have to search them up.

[Kazyan]

Don't I keep my terrible HP though?

Sure, but the other 9ths you listed aren't going to help with that. (Well, Wish, but you're blowing 10,000 XP for +2 Con at that point.) Shapechange will help by raising a proper defense given the situation. You can poof into something with DR, as an example.

[Radar]

Shapechange into a Chronotyryn (Fiend Folio) and take two turns every turn. Think about it. :smallcool:

[Sception]

Plague of Undead!

Haha, no, I kid. PoU may be my favorite spell in the game, but I'll have to echo the shapechange recommendation. Best 9th level Sorcerer spell imo, for the versatility mentioned by previous posters.

[Randomguy]

Shapechange. You can turn into things that have supernatural abilities that make up for your limited spells known. For example, turn into an archon for greater teleport.

[mregecko]

I'm seconding Shapechange or Time Stop.

The only reason I'd do Time Stop for you is Veils & Prismatic Wall strategic positioning (ready timestop for when dragon charges, drop wall in front of charging dragon).

[Kelb_Panthera]

Shapechange; no question. If you have the Fiend Folio shapechange gets you wish as an option anyway; through changeing into a zodar.

Incidentally; if you don't mind delaying your level progression a bit you don't have to wait till 20 for the +5 inherent bonus. As soon as you've got the XP; craft a scroll (get a character with scribe scroll to help you if necessary). Once you've got 5 scrolls, go.

[evil-frosty]

Maw of Chaos is a favorite of mine. Especially paired with time stop. Though you will probably get the most bang for your buck out of shapechange.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Iceberg, from Frostburn.

Realistically though, I'd have taken Ancestral Relic at 3rd (http://alt.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267805#4) and have 2-3 more 9ths on the same day as I'd gained that level.

[Slipperychicken]

Sure, but the other 9ths you listed aren't going to help with that. (Well, Wish, but you're blowing 10,000 XP for +2 Con at that point.) Shapechange will help by raising a proper defense given the situation. You can poof into something with DR, as an example.

Poof into something which gets Wish for free. You can also turn into creatures with both higher spellcasting than you and Wish SLA, like angels.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Shapechange!

I have a Wiz / IotSFV right now, and my single greatest lament was not thinking ahead and dumping my cha to 8. ALL your Su attacks save for breath weapons will have DCs based on cha, which you can utterly rock as a sorc!

It really isn't even a contest.

Imprisonment: I learned it because I felt compelled to get use out of that GSF (Abjuration), but have yet to prep or use it. It's just so...bad. 9th level melee range save or "die" that isn't even very effective at keeping someone "dead." It's just awful.

This will be your only 9th level spell known for now, so it needs to be something you'll want to cast often. If not Shapechange, then Time Stop is good. Summon Monster 9 and Energy Drain (I much prefer Enervation + empower or split ray) are ok. Wail of the Banshee is pretty brutal. Dominate Monster is nice for gaining allies if you still actually face a lot of things neither mind-affecting immune nor buffed with Mind Blank.

[Alleran]

Shapechange, no question. As others have mentioned, it adds tremendous versatility. I think the BG forums had a long list of the supernatural abilities available from various shapechange forms once, but I don't know if it still survives.


Dominate Monster is nice for gaining allies if you still actually face a lot of things neither mind-affecting immune nor buffed with Mind Blank.
I'd just re-spec to take either Divine Sorcery (Dragon #345, IIRC) or the Complete Champion sorcerer ACF that adds a domain. Take the Domination domain, and you have True Domination and/or Monstrous Thrall, both of which are better than Dominate Monster.

(Or play around with some Mother Cyst feats - Necrotic Tumor is another nasty mind-control spell that once successful is permanent and can't be blocked via spells that stop compulsion effects.)

[Spuddles]

Shapechange, unless it's nerfed. You don't have much versatility atm, save for polymorph, which has a fairly short duration. You don't have any methods for traveling long distances, for instance.

You have too many targeted spells and too few buffs/BF control to make time stop truly worth while.

Foresight is pretty sweet, but Dire Tortoise basically gets you the same thing.

Some useful shapechange froms:http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=6595.0

[Norin]

Time Stop imo

Or Shapechange (if your dm does not nerf your form selection) would be my choise i think.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Time-stop has some very nice uses if you're the right kind of caster or if you have delay spell.

If you like to focus on BFC then timestop will allow you to literally shape the battlefield to your desire before the poor schlub has a chance to act.

If you're a mailman with delay spell, you can super-nova. Maximized timestop -> 5 rounds delayed nova attack 1 & 5 rounds quickened delayed nova attack 1 -> 4 rounds delayed nova attack 2 & 4 rounds delayed nova attack 2 -> rinse & repeat for 3 more cycles -> time-stop ends & target(s) are atomized. There are next to no circumstances under which this would ever be necessary but it'd be a hell of a fireworks show.

[TuggyNE]

There are next to no circumstances under which this would ever be necessary but it'd be a hell of a fireworks show.

This is especially true if you're (ab)using GAF + Sanctum Spell. :smallwink:

[Alleran]

Some useful shapechange froms:http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=6595.0
Oh good. I thought that guide had been lost, but it seems somebody saved it.

[Pickford]

Update:

I ended up taking imprisonment as my DC ends up being 32 (10 + spell level (9) + charisma mod (11) + 2 (SpellFocus/GreaterSpellFocus))

Not bad, but I'm looking for ways to up it now.

Is there anything I can do to improve it at this point? I only came across the reserve feats in Complete Mage.

Any known magic items/spells?

Edit: I'm likely getting Shapechange as spell #2 at 19th, for now I make do with Draconic Polymorph.

[Slipperychicken]

I ended up taking imprisonment

Bwuh?! You need to be in melee, and succeed a melee attack roll, and check for SR, AND hope they fail a save. And you don't even get the loot if you win all those things. It's like, the worst 9th level spell ever.

Hell, you would have been better off with Prismatic Sphere. Or even just Wish, and keeping it around for emergencies.

[Norin]

Time stop sheds a tear for not being wanted. :'(

[Aliek]

I find the lack of Gate in this thread disturbing.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Not the choice I'd've made, but it's your character.

*mutters* (don't know why he even asked if he was just going to ignore everyone anyway.) *mutters*

[Morcleon]

I find the lack of Gate in this thread disturbing.

:mitd: What gate?

I would second that question. Why imprisonment?

[StreamOfTheSky]

The sunk cost fallacy.

He had to waste 2 feats on Greater Spell Focus Abjuration, and feels the need to get something out of it.

At least, that's my assumption.

[Morcleon]

The sunk cost fallacy.

He had to waste 2 feats on Greater Spell Focus Abjuration, and feels the need to get something out of it.

At least, that's my assumption.

If that's true, then he should have gotten maw of chaos. Much more fun. :smallsmile:

[Kazyan]

Guys, we shouldn't pounce on him for his pick. :smalltongue:

Anyway, Imprisonment is pretty neat if it actually works. As a save-or-die, it's almost as thorough at removing a character from the game as Unname is. Only Freedom, which no one ever takes, can undo it, and that requires some information-gathering.

[TuggyNE]

The sunk cost fallacy.

He had to waste 2 feats on Greater Spell Focus Abjuration, and feels the need to get something out of it.

At least, that's my assumption.

At least it's more plausible for a Sorcerer to fall victim to this than a Wizard. :smalltongue:

[Norin]

Guys, we shouldn't pounce on him for his pick. :smalltongue:


Well ha asked for advice on what to pick, and did not take any of the advice given. :smallwink:

Was just a bit odd i suppose.

[Killer Angel]

Update:

I ended up taking imprisonment

So, you asked for an advice, the chorus was "Shapechange", and you picked something else that wasn't even mentioned in the OP never mind (at least, Foresight is nice for a sorcerer)? :smallconfused:

Well, it's your character, after all.. but imprisonment? touch attack, SR, ST...

[Norin]

Things I've considered: Imprisonment, Foresight, Shapechange, Wish.



Well, it was in the OP. :smallwink:

[Killer Angel]

Well, it was in the OP. :smallwink:

Whoops, in the discussion entered also Time Stop, and I mixed the things in my mind. My bad. :smallredface: