Is it rude to.....

[Tavar]

Is it considered rude to, if some strangers are talking in a language you do not understand, to go up to them and speak in the normal tongue of the region? For a bit of background, this occurred in a game, and the characters were in something of a food court at a College.

I ask largely because this situation came up in a game, and I was surprised when my response(to, well, not go over to them) was apparently considered abnormal. From what I gather, I was supposed to either go over and hit on them(I was male, they were female) or at least go over and talk, despite neither understanding or speaking their language.

[Cuthalion]

I wouldn't say it's rude, necessarily. Unless you have a motive, there's on reason. Just it's really weird to randomly start a conversation with somebody.

[Coidzor]

I'm sorry, I don't understand the scenario.

Is it like interrupting two people speaking in French in an Edinburgh(Scotland, the UK) University's (So... St. Andrews, I think?) Student Union to ask them a question in English? It's only rude if it'd be rude to interrupt two people who had been having a conversation in English if that's the kind of scenario you're talking about.

I'm not quite sure how it can be rude to ask a legitimate question but not rude to just up and hit on one or both of a pair who are currently conversing though, given that the setting doesn't seem to be that of a meat market. :smallconfused:

[Androgeus]

an Edinburgh(Scotland, the UK) University's (So... St. Andrews, I think?) Student Union:

an Edinburgh Uni? You mean like the University of Edinburgh? St Andrews is it's own town that is like 50 miles from Edinburgh with it's own independent university. Heck only 1/3 of the student body is Scottish so it's like it's not even in Scotland.....Also there isn't a full stop after the St but that's just a bit pedantic
On topic, I think it'd be rude if you are interrupting their conversation or just trying to get them to speak the local language for xenophobic reason.

[Harugami]

I don't think what language they are speaking matters, think of it from their prospective. If you and a friend were talking (for the sake of the argument you are female so is your friend) and some guy comes up and starts using pick up lines(in your language or another) I think it would be pretty rude regardless of the setting. Now if it were a bar or some sort of human mating ground I would say its perfectly acceptable, but seeing how I used the term "human mating ground" my advice is probably wrong

[shadow_archmagi]

Is it considered rude to, if some strangers are talking in a language you do not understand, to go up to them and speak in the normal tongue of the region? For a bit of background, this occurred in a game, and the characters were in something of a food court at a College.

I ask largely because this situation came up in a game, and I was surprised when my response(to, well, not go over to them) was apparently considered abnormal. From what I gather, I was supposed to either go over and hit on them(I was male, they were female) or at least go over and talk, despite neither understanding or speaking their language.


I don't think it's rude to address them in another language. If you said something like "WE SPEAK AMERICA AROUND HERE NOT COMMIE TONGUES" that would be rude, but if you just went up and said something like "Hallo there! Lovely day! Care to join me for a bite to eat?" that'd be perfectly socially acceptable.

[Harugami]

Wait a question for your question, are they still talking or are you waiting to interject?

[Traab]

I don't think it's rude to address them in another language. If you said something like "WE SPEAK AMERICA AROUND HERE NOT COMMIE TONGUES" that would be rude, but if you just went up and said something like "Hallo there! Lovely day! Care to join me for a bite to eat?" that'd be perfectly socially acceptable.

Really? Damn, because I do that all the time. Damn those southern people and their odd accents. Clearly they are commie sympathizers.

[Absol197]

I don't think it's rude to address them in another language. If you said something like "WE SPEAK AMERICA AROUND HERE NOT COMMIE TONGUES" that would be rude, but if you just went up and said something like "Hallo there! Lovely day! Care to join me for a bite to eat?" that'd be perfectly socially acceptable.

The one problem with this is anyone who would say something like that would never use the word "tongues" like that :smalltongue: .

As for the question, as long as you don't interrupt them and what you have to say is respectful, I see no reason why it would be rude. Of course, hitting on them may or may not be respectful, depending on the situation and location, as others have pointed out.


~Phoenix~

[Jay R]

Is it considered rude to, if some strangers are talking in a language you do not understand, to go up to them and speak in the normal tongue of the region? For a bit of background, this occurred in a game, and the characters were in something of a food court at a College.

I ask largely because this situation came up in a game, and I was surprised when my response(to, well, not go over to them) was apparently considered abnormal. From what I gather, I was supposed to either go over and hit on them(I was male, they were female) or at least go over and talk, despite neither understanding or speaking their language.

Let's rephrase the question:

"Is it rude to interrupt a conversation which is obviously intended to be private?"

[snoopy13a]

Is it considered rude to, if some strangers are talking in a language you do not understand, to go up to them and speak in the normal tongue of the region? For a bit of background, this occurred in a game, and the characters were in something of a food court at a College.

I ask largely because this situation came up in a game, and I was surprised when my response(to, well, not go over to them) was apparently considered abnormal. From what I gather, I was supposed to either go over and hit on them(I was male, they were female) or at least go over and talk, despite neither understanding or speaking their language.

It wouldn't necessarily be rude per se.

However, it wouldn't be expected nor ordinary. If I was sitting at a Starbucks, quietly enjoying a coffee and overheard two women speaking in French, Spanish, Italian, Japanese, etc., then I'd really have no reason to talk to them. Their conversation would be none of my business.

If I did talk to them, it would be an awkward introduction, like, "Hi, how are you doing?" This wouldn't be rude, but it'd probably be odd.

[Coidzor]

Is it considered rude to, if some strangers are talking in a language you do not understand, to go up to them and speak in the normal tongue of the region? For a bit of background, this occurred in a game, and the characters were in something of a food court at a College.

I ask largely because this situation came up in a game, and I was surprised when my response(to, well, not go over to them) was apparently considered abnormal. From what I gather, I was supposed to either go over and hit on them(I was male, they were female) or at least go over and talk, despite neither understanding or speaking their language.

What was the context in the game, anyway?

[factotum]

Let's rephrase the question:

"Is it rude to interrupt a conversation which is obviously intended to be private?"

Yes, yes it is...and the language they're speaking doesn't matter. If they're having an obviously private conversation, the only time it's really acceptable to butt in is at some sort of social gathering like a party; just standing in a public place does not automatically make someone's conversation fair game for an interruption.

[Socratov]

Well, the only rude thing would be interrupting a conversation between people. However, it is also considered rude to speak a language only they speak when in company (not having the ability to speak the native language pardoned), it's along the same lines as whispering in company.

So, considering your example, I'd think it's not rude to go up to them saying "Hello, do you mind if I sit here/eat my lunch with you" or something along those lines. Talking in the native language is actually soemthing expected unless your mastery of the language spoken by the other party is adequate. However, you are not required to go up to them and talk to them if you don't go near them (you are not forced to talk to those people). for the rest 'normal' conversation rules apply...

[factotum]

However, it is also considered rude to speak a language only they speak when in company (not having the ability to speak the native language pardoned), it's along the same lines as whispering in company.


But they're not "in company". They're in a food hall at a college, which is a public place, and thus I don't see why they need to include all and sundry in their conversation.

[Socratov]

But they're not "in company". They're in a food hall at a college, which is a public place, and thus I don't see why they need to include all and sundry in their conversation.

well, it wasn't specified that they were sitting alone, or the contrary, so I just put it out there for completeness... :smallamused:

[Manga Shoggoth]

Yes, yes it is...and the language they're speaking doesn't matter. If they're having an obviously private conversation, the only time it's really acceptable to butt in is at some sort of social gathering like a party; just standing in a public place does not automatically make someone's conversation fair game for an interruption.

Which is why the person interrupting would normally be expected to start with the phrase "Excuse me".

As has been noted, after that "how rude" depends on what the interruption is for.

[Coidzor]

But they're not "in company". They're in a food hall at a college, which is a public place, and thus I don't see why they need to include all and sundry in their conversation.

On the other hand, if they actually have a choice in the matter, usually it's being done so they can be rude themselves and be loud about their unflattering and public defamation of those around them rather than having to actually, y'know, whisper or refrain from such things in a public space or they're paranoid parrots. Or they're culturally aware enough to know about that being if not the default, a quite common interpretation of such a front. Practically a trope by now, I imagine...

And a couple of people who are being paranoid become suspicious when you suddenly have to investigate some already suspicious goings on. Which is why the context is kind of key here.

[shadow_archmagi]

On the other hand, if they actually have a choice in the matter, usually it's being done so they can be rude themselves and be loud about their unflattering and public defamation of those around them rather than having to actually, y'know, whisper or refrain from such things in a public space or they're paranoid parrots. Or they're culturally aware enough to know about that being if not the default, a quite common interpretation of such a front. Practically a trope by now, I imagine...

And a couple of people who are being paranoid become suspicious when you suddenly have to investigate some already suspicious goings on. Which is why the context is kind of key here.


Alternatively, they're foreigners, and just feel more comfortable speaking in their native language, even if they're fluent in the language of the region.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

In a food hall in a uni?

This only works if you already know them, otherwise it's rude. And even then, it can become awkward for when they become pressured to switch to a language they're possibly less proficient in to include you.

Edit: speaking from experience. Though my French accent is good enough that people assume I'm fluent and continue in French anyhow (and I can mostly follow along, though not as well as I used to. I really shoulda taken a French course...

[Tavar]

Complete situation: it was the start of the campaign, and PC's were meeting, no outside intro or anything. Several of them got together, and then started speaking in a specific language. I did not then go over, because my character did not speak the language. When I gave that reason as why I did not, the general response was 'well, why didn't you just go over anyways'? Several statements also seemed to imply that, since they were female(and some of them quite attractive), and I was a guy, it was natural for me to go over and talk to them, despite their being a conversation going on in a separate language.

So, yeah. No IC idea what was being said, no knowledge of who these people are, a seemingly private conversation, and the response I got from being reluctant to interrupt it with a complete non-sequitor, as well as a then forcing them to change languages, was 'char name needs to grow a pair'. Or saying that there were many reasons to go over and talk to them, without giving and example, even after requests to provide said example.

[Harugami]

I agree with you there was no reason to go over to them, I don't see how them being a different sex provokes a talk of opportunity, no reason at all to talk to them at all and the fact they couldn't come up with any examples proves the point.

[snoopy13a]

Complete situation: it was the start of the campaign, and PC's were meeting, no outside intro or anything. Several of them got together, and then started speaking in a specific language. I did not then go over, because my character did not speak the language. When I gave that reason as why I did not, the general response was 'well, why didn't you just go over anyways'? Several statements also seemed to imply that, since they were female(and some of them quite attractive), and I was a guy, it was natural for me to go over and talk to them, despite their being a conversation going on in a separate language.

So, yeah. No IC idea what was being said, no knowledge of who these people are, a seemingly private conversation, and the response I got from being reluctant to interrupt it with a complete non-sequitor, as well as a then forcing them to change languages, was 'char name needs to grow a pair'. Or saying that there were many reasons to go over and talk to them, without giving and example, even after requests to provide said example.

Why doesn't your character speak this language? It seems strange that every character speaks this language but yours. It sounds more like a character creation problem than anything else.

To me, it sounds like what is happening is:

All the other players: we are students from the nation of X who are studying at a university in the nation of Y. Although we speak both Xish and Yish, we speak Xish when hanging out together.

You: I am a student from the nation of Y who attends a university in the nation of Y. I don't speak Xish.

Even in that situation, it seems to me that the onus is on you to create a character that meshes with the rest of group.

[Harugami]

Why doesn't your character speak this language? It seems strange that every character speaks this language but yours. It sounds more like a character creation problem than anything else.

To me, it sounds like what is happening is:

All the other players: we are students from the nation of X who are studying at a university in the nation of Y. Although we speak both Xish and Yish, we speak Xish when hanging out together.

You: I am a student from the nation of Y who attends a university in the nation of Y. I don't speak Xish.

Even in that situation, it seems to me that the onus is on you to create a character that meshes with the rest of group.

This is quite common in my group because they like to spread out known languages in the party(no two speak the same cept common) so we can insult everything in their own tongue

[Tavar]

Why doesn't your character speak this language? It seems strange that every character speaks this language but yours. It sounds more like a character creation problem than anything else.

To me, it sounds like what is happening is:

All the other players: we are students from the nation of X who are studying at a university in the nation of Y. Although we speak both Xish and Yish, we speak Xish when hanging out together.

You: I am a student from the nation of Y who attends a university in the nation of Y. I don't speak Xish.

Even in that situation, it seems to me that the onus is on you to create a character that meshes with the rest of group.
Actually, I think only one character was from the area that spoke that language. The others knew it, but they also knew other languages. And, I believe 3 of the four were from the same nation that I was from.

Furthermore, there were a couple other players, but a few had dropped the game, and others had not introduced themselves into the game yet. With them also around, the language mix was much less universal.

It's also a bit more complicated, but essentially, they were speaking Russian in 1990-2000's era America(the situation is a bit more complex, but there are clear parallels in the setting).

Oh, and they had appeared to speak the national language earlier, but by the time I introduced my character, they had switched languages.

[Coidzor]

Complete situation: it was the start of the campaign, and PC's were meeting, no outside intro or anything. Several of them got together, and then started speaking in a specific language. I did not then go over, because my character did not speak the language. When I gave that reason as why I did not, the general response was 'well, why didn't you just go over anyways'? Several statements also seemed to imply that, since they were female(and some of them quite attractive), and I was a guy, it was natural for me to go over and talk to them, despite their being a conversation going on in a separate language.

So, yeah. No IC idea what was being said, no knowledge of who these people are, a seemingly private conversation, and the response I got from being reluctant to interrupt it with a complete non-sequitor, as well as a then forcing them to change languages, was 'char name needs to grow a pair'. Or saying that there were many reasons to go over and talk to them, without giving and example, even after requests to provide said example.

Well, that was a poor decision on the part of the players and game master. :smallconfused:


Why doesn't your character speak this language? It seems strange that every character speaks this language but yours. It sounds more like a character creation problem than anything else.

:smallconfused: You don't start planning IC illegal activities with other players until after the party has been formed, because you're holding up the game if you're busy making sideplots before you've truly started the game, especially if those sideplots actively prevent the party from forming because you shut out someone's character for no good reason.


Even in that situation, it seems to me that the onus is on you to create a character that meshes with the rest of group.

Right, there's an onus when there was no communication and no such arrangement. If it was communicated beforehand, Tavar would know this and so we wouldn't be having this conversation, now would we? :smallannoyed:

[Thajocoth]

When playing a character in a game, sometimes you need to do something because it is what will advance the game, even if you have to bend concepts to come up with an IC reason for it.

Smoothness of play is a reason in and of itself.

[factotum]

When playing a character in a game, sometimes you need to do something because it is what will advance the game, even if you have to bend concepts to come up with an IC reason for it.

Smoothness of play is a reason in and of itself.

I partly disagree. Yes, the sort of person who will do something deliberately disruptive to the party because "it's what my character would do" is incredibly annoying, but the situation as described doesn't sound like that; it's a situation where there simply wasn't any good reason for Tavar's character to walk up and introduce himself to the group. Frankly, I'd have to say this sounds distinctly like the fault of the DM--he/she should have manufactured a proper reason for the meetup, rather than leaving it entirely to the players.

[Jay R]

When playing a character in a game, sometimes you need to do something because it is what will advance the game, even if you have to bend concepts to come up with an IC reason for it.

Smoothness of play is a reason in and of itself.

So if the shopkeeper is dealing with somebody else and asks you to wait, you set the town on fire.

Advance the game!

[Thajocoth]

I partly disagree. Yes, the sort of person who will do something deliberately disruptive to the party because "it's what my character would do" is incredibly annoying, but the situation as described doesn't sound like that; it's a situation where there simply wasn't any good reason for Tavar's character to walk up and introduce himself to the group. Frankly, I'd have to say this sounds distinctly like the fault of the DM--he/she should have manufactured a proper reason for the meetup, rather than leaving it entirely to the players.

Humans are imperfect. You can't expect everyone to be the best DM ever. You adapt what you're doing to the situation & move on. You don't hold up the game because your character has no motivation to do anything besides sit & stare at a wall. They have motivation to join the group because it's the first 5 minutes of the game and that's just what you do in the first 5 minutes of the game.

Every game I've ever played in either started off with the PCs already knowing each other and being a team before the game started, or without giving a good reason for the players to join up, because that's realistically nigh-impossible without some very heavy railroading.

In those games, we joined up simply because we're the PCs. We're supposed to join up and work together. The RP can suffer a lapse here & there and still be fun. Standing around because a player doesn't see their character's motivation to do something is game delaying and disruptive to all the other players who're trying to play.

The worst was when we were supposed to be joining up as a group, and if I followed my character's RP "properly", I would've been fighting one of the other PCs instead (LE & LG, and it was really really clear that he was evil. Later we even took a quest from a LE king.) I just joined up and followed the group anyway for metagame reasons.


So if the shopkeeper is dealing with somebody else and asks you to wait, you set the town on fire.

Advance the game!
How does that advance anything?

[Tavar]

So, essentially, characters are meaningless?

Yeah, not agreeing there.

[Thajocoth]

So, essentially, characters are meaningless?

Not at all. 95% of the time, this isn't necessary, but when you roll a natural one for motivation, sometimes you just need to metagame a little. There's plenty of RP elsewhere, the other 95% of the time. Expecting to never need to metagame your RP is expecting the DM to be perfect. The DM is not a god, they just play the gods in the game. They're human like all of us. They will make mistakes.

[thethird]

Personally I am from a bilingual region (meaning we have two mother tongues), and even if one is widely spoken by foreigners the other is mostly ours.

Among ourselves we have never had a trouble speaking one or the other, it depends on the person you are talking to, you pick one or the other mostly depending on what language you were introduced with. If we are introduced in language A we will normally keep using that, instead if we where introduced in language B language B it is. This means that people have conversations (among a group) using both languages at the same time, I might feel more comfortable using language B but a friend of mine feels more confident with language A, so we each speak a different language.

Of course, we consider it quite impolite to address a person that only knows one of our languages in the other. So if it is mentioned to us, or we realize, we tend quickly exchange the language.

This means that me, or most people I know, that are bilingual, won't feel offended if you go to them and say "excuse me, could you please switch your language?"

Take into account though, that some people are REALLY used to use one language when talking to specific people so those might not realize that they are switching their language (language is most of the time automatic).

Imho, you should have just approached them, and have let them know that your Russian was only good enough to say "vodka" and that you would really appreciate if they switched to English.

[Tavar]

Imho, you should have just approached them, and have let them know that your Russian was only good enough to say "vodka" and that you would really appreciate if they switched to English.

Issue: I didn't know them. To me this can only read like someone going up to a group speaking a different language and demanding that they change languages because of the country they are currently in.

Thus, the only way to approach them was to make my character into an ass.


Not at all. 95% of the time, this isn't necessary, but when you roll a natural one for motivation, sometimes you just need to metagame a little. There's plenty of RP elsewhere, the other 95% of the time. Expecting to never need to metagame your RP is expecting the DM to be perfect. The DM is not a god, they just play the gods in the game. They're human like all of us. They will make mistakes.
Considering I only really see this in character defining sections, I'm not sure I would say it's meaningless. Nor do I agree that it's so rare: I've seen similar things quite a bit.

Furthermore, this is less expecting the DM to be perfect, and more the DM to be functional and an active part of the game, or at least communicate what his desires were. I mean, given that the set up was somewhat sandboxy, I'm not sure why it was critical to get the PC's together right there. Not every game begins with the gathering at the start, and all of the successful, non forced gatherings I've seen involved quite a bit of DM/Player interaction. And the forced ones...generally I don't see them recover, in terms of the characterization, as in my experience once players get it into their heads that the characters don't matter(because why does something matter if it doesn't have any effect?), then it starts to diminish.

[thethird]

I can see your point then. Although, personally if you had something to ask or any reason to talk to them I personally wouldn't have seen it as something rude.

[Tavar]

Oh, certainly, if there was a reason, but there wasn't. Except apparently the fact that they were female and I was male, because we all know men are completely ruled by their sex drive.:smallyuk:

[thethird]

Nah, they aren't. You were completely okay on not approaching them.

On the other hand I once played a Spanish vampire on Chicago who wasn't able to speak English at all. It was pretty fun.