[3.P] Zen Archer With Wis/Dex to Damage? (some 3.x material allowed)

[Ellrin]

I have a friend in my upcoming campaign whose Zen Archer has relatively low strength (12) for fluff reasons; he's a bit worried about his damage output because of it, however. He doesn't want to change his race (changeling), and he really wants the monk capstone, so assume no multiclassing.

I'm wondering if, within those restrictions, it's possible to get Wis (or, failing that, Dex) to damage so that he can feel a little more comfortable about his character mechanically speaking. The DM is allowing some 3e/3.5 material, at least--we've got a blanket okay on feats right now, and I've cleared some equipment with him, myself. Anything that isn't too cheesy has a good chance of being approved, I think.

What does the playground think? Is it doable?

[Ernir]

Have you taken a look at the X stat to Y bonus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125732) thread?

I'm not particularly optimistic about the character's potential if it's a single-classed Monk that's the unyielding requirement, though. =/
If the Monk capstone (that is, turn-into-outsider-at-the-end) is the main thing, he might be more happy with an Incarnate?

[Ellrin]

Forgot about that thread, thanks. Sadly for his optimization potential, he's already pretty invested in the roleplaying concept of his build; and I don't know how good an idea it would be to bring in incarnum right now, anyway, since everybody in the campaign is new to PF (and many have limited 3.x experience in general); it'd just add to the general confusion, you know?

After taking a look through that thread, it doesn't look like there's a good way to go about it without messing with his build, but with the example of the shiba protector, I could see if my DM's willing to homebrew an extra archetype-style feature replacement for Wis to damage.

[Phelix-Mu]

Of all the reasons to stick with straight monk, the monk capstone is probably the worst. Type change sounds cool, but that's about it. The concrete effect is immunity to hold person, charm person, etc. At 20th, DR/magic is only useful if the town drunk tries to mug you, and he'll only be hitting you 5% of the time anyway. Everything dangerous at high levels will be packing magic weapons, using spells, or have magic strike special ability, with few exceptions.

I'm speaking in regards to 3.5 monk, but I'm not sure any of the PF tweaks were of huge consequence, aside from the ki pool concept, which was cool.

In my mind, the only reason to stick with monk so long is if you want Timeless Body, and there are a bunch of other ways to get that, too.

Sometimes players want things for their own reasons. If any class needs a little homebrew accommodation, monk is probably it. Try allowing the monk to take a 1-level shiba protector dip that would still allow the monk to get the normal monk class features. Many fixes for monk include wisdom modifier to attack and damage, so it would be hard to say that the shiba protector class feature is going to unbalance the game.

[Ellrin]

Oh, I'm well aware how weak 3.5 monks are. PF seems marginally better, but my friend's not ever going to be becoming a powerhouse, even if he sinks all his options into becoming a better archer. That's fine with everybody involved, considering that we're not going for high (or even mid) op in this campaign--we're all more interested in flavor than optimization, which is ultimately, I believe, what's best for a campaign with relative newbies like we've got. I think I've just brought up mechanics (mostly about my own build, though) enough times to get him a little worried about his damage output.

[Phelix-Mu]

Oh, I'm well aware how weak 3.5 monks are. PF seems marginally better, but my friend's not ever going to be becoming a powerhouse, even if he sinks all his options into becoming a better archer. That's fine with everybody involved, considering that we're not going for high (or even mid) op in this campaign--we're all more interested in flavor than optimization, which is ultimately, I believe, what's best for a campaign with relative newbies like we've got. I think I've just brought up mechanics (mostly about my own build, though) enough times to get him a little worried about his damage output.

Right, flavor IS king in-game, and op, to me, is a quite silly, if enjoyable, exercise compared to good role playing. Support buffs are probably the best way to up the damage output in this instance, or a really nice bow. Also the least intrusive to the player's character concept.

[Wagadodo]

If he is going pure monk, and only a 12 str, the only feat you need to up damage is Dead Aim. After that might think about going into Snap Shot feat line to allow to take attacks of oppurnity at range. Allowing him to make attack of oppurnities with his ranged weapon it syngergies well with Point Blank master that the Zen Archer gets at 3rd level.

[gartius]

just get the guided weapon property. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapons-non-core/weapon-property---guided) Solves all your worries and its paizo material-your dm will need to okay it though as it is from when paizo was writing 3.5

[Ellrin]

That's pretty much exactly the kind of thing I think my friend would like. Thanks.