how good is a hengeyokai wu jen?

[silverwolfer]

just curoius on folks thoughts on a hengeyokai wu jen, if it would be useful towards a party or a dead beat.

[ArcturusV]

Well, the simple answer is "Better than a stick to the eye".

When it comes to Spellcasters, unless you get a HEAVY benefit, I don't want anything with a level adjustment. My power directly scales to how quickly I can move up the level ladder, and a level 5 Spellcaster is a lot weaker than even a level 6 spellcaster.

In the general sense people will probably tell you "Well Wizard is better than Wu Jen". Objectively they're right. Wu Jen isn't bad though. The only real problem with Hengeyokai is that you're getting Shapechanging which doesn't really help you and is less important with Arcane Classes who typically can shapechange anyway, and you're taking a hit in level to have it.

It just doesn't feel like you'd be getting as much mileage out of that +1 LA as you would out of having one more level of Wu Jen. Least to me.

[Amnestic]

Do bear in mind that Hengeyokai were updated in Dragon Magazine to be LA+0.

[silverwolfer]

We are using the 3.5 update, which makes it a +0 LA

[TaiLiu]

It just doesn't feel like you'd be getting as much mileage out of that +1 LA as you would out of having one more level of Wu Jen. Least to me.

Didn't a Dragon Magazine eratta take away the level adjustment?

[ArcturusV]

Huh... did not know that. But I never had a subscription to it either. And Dragon Magazine Content is usually the one "official" source that I will most often see banned. So I wouldn't count on that unless it gets an approval stamp ahead of time.

[silverwolfer]

Yes as it was errata and not "content" my Dm IS IS IS allowing it


Should I invest into natural spell, when am shaping about?

[Urpriest]

Yes as it was errata and not "content" my Dm IS IS IS allowing it


Should I invest into natural spell, when am shaping about?

Natural Spell won't help, since it's not Wildshape. However, I don't think you're explicitly prohibited from casting in that form, so it shouldn't matter. It's one of your natural forms, after all.

I'd consider Sparrow for the defensive benefits, though you can gish with one of the others.

[OverdrivePrime]

You're a wu jen.

So, you're not quite as capable of world destroying magic as a wizard, and somewhat more capable than a sorcerer. With smart spell selection you'll be more useful to the party than any two other characters combined. Just be nice about it. :smallsmile:

[Vaz]

How to break WBL.

1 Wu Jen 1; Extend Spell, Fey Mysteries Initiate (Int to HP at 1st, +1 HP per permanent Int Increase - +14 HP essentially)
2 Wu Jen 2;
3 Wu Jen 3; Practised Spellcaster, I like Extended Alter Self spellsecret
4 StP Erudite 1;
5 StP Erudite 2;
6 Cerebremancer 1; Practised Manifester
7 Cerebremancer 2;
8 Cerebremancer 3;
9 Cerebremancer 4; Free
10 Cerebremancer 5;
11 Cerebremancer 6;
12 Cerebremancer 7; Free
13 Cerebremancer 8;
14 Cerebremancer 9;
15 Cerebremancer 10; Iron Will
16 StP Erudite
17 Incantatrix 1; Persistent Spell
18 Incantatrix 2;
19 Incantatrix 3; Ocular Spell
20 Archmage 1; SLA Wish

Pump up your Intelligence 20+6 Item+5 Tome+5 Level up equals 31. 147 Class Power Points, 65 Bonus, for 212 Power Points/day. If you really wished to "waste" it on BoB, you have 4 7th Spells per day (CL 20) and 16 Manifestations of Body Outside Body (ML 16).

That is ((4*4)+(16*3)), or 64 Clones, each capable of bringing another 16 Castings of Body Outside Body, each time bringing on another 42 Clones, each of these bringing on more clones. Hilarity ensues as you instead begin to suck all the oxygen out of the air causing death by suffocation rather than actual damage. They last all day thanks to the clones using their own Metamagic Effect from Incantatrix 3 to last all day.

In regards to damage, they can use the Archmages SLA 2/day to cast Wish for free (no XP is actually used). Proceed to break the WBL as you get 50K gifted for free by your huge amount of self propagating clones each and everyday. The best part? They last 24 hours, so have essentially twice the number of power points and SLA's; so 4 Wishes per clone. Each clone manifests Body Outside Body 32 times, so on and so forth.

Over a 24 Hour period, the Wu Jen alone brings in 124 Clones. Each of these clones casts Wish 4 Times; that's 12.4M GP in 24 Hours.

While the majority of the clones will be utterly unuseable in combat, some of the better ones could instead of having the lesser ones break the WBL, use the Wish SLA and Persistent Metamagic Effect and Cooperative Metamagic to make any spell Wished into effect a fixed range spell for free, making it persistable, which is then Metamagic Effected into place.

As Temporary HP bonuses from different sources stack, cash in;
- Aid (1d8+10)
- Aspect of the Icy Hunter (+20)
- Aspect of the Chromatic Dragon (+100)
- Bear's Heart (+20d4)
- Chaav's Laugh (+20+1d8)
- Death Dragon (+20)
- Divine Power (+20)
- Lesser Dragonshape (+60)
- Form of the Eye Tyrant (+30)
- Dridershape (+20)
- Falselife (+1d10+10)
- Form of the Desert Hunter (+30)
- Form of the Threefold Beast (+30)
- Gutwrench (+4d6)
- Heart of Earth (+30)
- Heroes Feast (+1d8+10)
- Greater Heroism (+20)
- Necrotic Empowerment (+100)
- Righteous Fury (+10d4)
- Righteous Wrath of the Fallen (+1d8)
- Shape of the Hellspawned Stalker (+10)
- Lesser Spiderform (+5)
- Trollshape (+30)
- Unyielding Form of Inevitable Death (+50)
- Virtue (+1)

Gets 616+1d10+4d8+4d6+30d4 HP, or around 700 Free Hit Points which last for 24 Hours.

Likey?

[Sith_Happens]

-Snip-

http://www.allmystery.de/i/tb538ea_Boy-that-escalated-quickly.jpg