Grapple, Earthglide, and taking someone with you underground

[Invader]

So my PC's will be fighting a creature with earthglide and a good grapple check in an upcoming dungeon and the tactic I want to use is to have the monster start a grapple and then drag the PC into an adjacent room through a stone wall.

Is it as simple as grappling the opponent and then moving through the wall or is there some rule that would prevent me from doing this?

[herrhauptmann]

So my PC's will be fighting a creature with earthglide and a good grapple check in an upcoming dungeon and the tactic I want to use is to have the monster start a grapple and then drag the PC into an adjacent room through a stone wall.

Is it as simple as grappling the opponent and then moving through the wall or is there some rule that would prevent me from doing this?

I don't think you can earthglide someone else normally. If you could, that'd be a favorite tactic of the greathorn minotaur. And if you're going to earthglide someone into the ground, why not take them, then leave them there?
Reason: There's a mount type creature with earthglide, and a second racial feature that lets it take a rider with it when it earthglides. I believe it's in Underdark or Races of Stone.

[Kuulvheysoon]

I don't think you can earthglide someone else normally. If you could, that'd be a favorite tactic of the greathorn minotaur. And if you're going to earthglide someone into the ground, why not take them, then leave them there?
Reason: There's a mount type creature with earthglide, and a second racial feature that lets it take a rider with it when it earthglides. I believe it's in Underdark or Races of Stone.

You're thinking of the Stone Flyer. Pretty neat monster, actually.

[Invader]

I can see there being a difference between riding on top of something and being all wrapped up in its appendages though as far as moving through the earth.

Regardless, is there any actual RAW that says it doesn't or can't work like that?

[Twilightwyrm]

I can see there being a difference between riding on top of something and being all wrapped up in its appendages though as far as moving through the earth.

Regardless, is there any actual RAW that says it doesn't or can't work like that?

No, but RAW takes a number of things for granted (see Rules Silliness Topics on this site). In this case, there's a simple question that might help answer this: does the Earth glide ability give an amount of equipment that can be safely transported with one's person through the earth? The Xorn's ability does not (nor does the Xorn typically carry anything on it), which would lead most reasonable DM's to reason that you cannot Earthglide a creature through a wall or underground any more than an incorporeal creature (that can somehow exert force) can bring living or nonliving matter with them through walls, floors, etc.

[Dimers]

I opine that a creature with Swallow Whole and earthglide could take someone with it. :smalltongue:

Someone small ... and tasty ...

[Phelix-Mu]

I opine that a creature with Swallow Whole and earthglide could take someone with it. :smalltongue:

Someone small ... and tasty ...

This is the only way I can see it working.

Generally speaking, only creatures with earthglide can treat the earth as not being solid. Grappling with a non-earthglide creature doesn't change this.

This is pretty necessary, btw, as earthglide would be way too easy to kill people or remove creatures from combat. Grapple, move creature into the ground, release, creature dies or is so stuck that it doesn't matter any more. Or even more straightforward, trip enemy then jump on top of them, forcing them into the "liquid earth." Bull rush someone into a wall. Anyway, there would have to be extensive rules on how to deal with this, and there are exactly none.

The earthglide ability is woefully sparse, considering it opens up a crazy ton of tactical options. Adding functionality would be a poor choice from a game balance perspective (and would rock from a pc's perspective...druid grapplers for the win!).

[Invader]

OK let me narrow down the focus of what I'm planning on doing.

Said monster will be grappling a PC and dragging it through a 5ft stone wall into another room and basically just dropping it off.

I'm thinking of giving the PC a free attempt at breaking the grapple when they get pulled into the wall at maybe a +4 bonus.

Does this sound reasonable?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Your special abilities can be extended to attended objects in your possession, but other creatures are absolutely not objects and such abilities cannot be extended to them without another special ability allowing you to do so.

The Thomil template from Unapproachable East is probably exactly what you're looking for, it gives an earth elemental an engulf ability in addition to a few other benefits. It was printed in 3.0 before earth elementals had the earth glide ability, and it's not included in the 3.5 update (http://www.rerolled.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=12484&d=1360296096), but the ability does state that it can move and attack normally while enveloping a creature.

[Invader]

The Thomil template from Unapproachable East is probably exactly what you're looking for, it gives an earth elemental an engulf ability in addition to a few other benefits. It was printed in 3.0 before earth elementals had the earth glide ability, and it's not included in the 3.5 update (http://www.rerolled.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=12484&d=1360296096), but the ability does state that it can move and attack normally while enveloping a creature.

This does pretty much what I'm trying to accomplish so I feel pretty confident I can keep my original monster the way he is without affecting the balance of the encounter to much.

[nedz]

This is the only way I can see it working.

Well: if you kill them first — their body is then just an object — then you can disappear them underground.

[Flickerdart]

Well: if you kill them first — their body is then just an object — then you can disappear them underground.
That's just called burying, though.

[herrhauptmann]

That's just called burying, though.

And hiding the evidence.

[Phelix-Mu]

Engulf or swallow whole are the only two things that I would caveat the general consensus with (nice catch, Furiou). These seem in other respects to allow the "contained" creature to be moved by the surrounding creature without impacting the surrounding creature's modes of movements, ability to attack, or other abilities. If a creature with swallow whole teleports, then things it has swallowed are teleported with it, AFAIK. Would be kind of weird if they weren't. If it didn't work with earthglide, than that would be even weirder.:smallcool:

[tiercel]

Heh, makes me think of the Belgariad, where there is a character with exactly this power. It turns out about like you'd expect -- not only the utility of ferrying others through solid rock, but all you have to do to win a combat is successfully grapple, move into solid rock, and break the grapple.

I'd agree that unless the character is completely surrounded/engulfed by the earthgliding monster, that this seems unworkable. (Grey area: would it work if the passenger/victim was willing, or unable to be unwilling, e.g. unconscious? I'd guess no.)

[Occasional Sage]

Warning: if this works in your game, expect PCs to abuse it soon. If you play Pathfinder, I point your attention to the Oread, a playable race with Earthglide. You'll regret this.