Psions

[sambouchah]

So I keep seeing people mention Shapers(I think) doing poison damage to foes. I haven't read into it much but I have been looking around. Could anyone point me in the direction of the feat, power or other that does this?

Thanks in advance, Sam

[TaiLiu]

It's not a feat; it's a power. Specifically, Minor Creation, Psionic.

[Crake]

Where do people find these mysterious plant based poisons? Most seem to be animal based venoms, or ingested poisons, which are useless in combat.

[Phelix-Mu]

It's not a feat; it's a power. Specifically, Minor Creation, Psionic.

Can you psionically create alchemical substances? I thought there was some form of thing about not being able to create complex substances. I guess the referenced rules allow a craft check, so if the psion is rolling craft check, it is kosher, strictly for plant-based poisons. *sigh*

I would also argue that, by this measure, a lot of alchemical stuff qualifies to be made with this method, as a whole lot of ingredients are derivatives of plants. Poisons that are refined (i.e., crafted poisons, the only useful ones), have a main ingredient of poison but have other stuff mixed in to stabilize the toxin. Thus, alchemist's fire is probably also good, since you make it with oil and pitch and other stuff, some of which come from plants.

Another spell to rewrite.

[Greenish]

The classic is of course Black Lotus Extract (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#poison), from SRD and (I think) DMG.

[Edit]: Also, the Poison Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4854.0) is a must-read for any wannabe poisoner.

[Crake]

The classic is of course Black Lotus Extract (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#poison), from SRD and (I think) DMG.

[Edit]: Also, the Poison Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4854.0) is a must-read for any wannabe poisoner.

getting a level 1 shaper to succeed on a DC35 craft poisonmaking check seems pretty unlikely

[Kalaska'Agathas]

getting a level 1 shaper to succeed on a DC35 craft poisonmaking check seems pretty unlikely

I seem to be missing where, in either the power description or the spell description which it references, it calls for a craft check to make nonliving plant matter.

[Phelix-Mu]

getting a level 1 shaper to succeed on a DC35 craft poisonmaking check seems pretty unlikely

Sadly, optimizing skill checks is one of the easier tasks to accomplish. With first level wealth it will not be easy, but if the whole party gets together to fund it, this isn't a hard plan to put in action.

Now, ofc, something should be said about the alignment implications of running the future campaign off of poison, even if it is essentially free poison. Just make sure you poison the right people, I guess.:smallamused:

EDIT:
Any poison that is going to be used by anything other than the critter that produces it needs to be crafted (basically, refined, see black lotus extract). Ruling otherwise is just crazy, and opens up further sketchy methods of harvesting poison.

That said, please show me the rules that say this is possible. It sounds sketchy, so it's probably in the RAW somewhere.

[Kalaska'Agathas]

Sadly, optimizing skill checks is one of the easier tasks to accomplish. With first level wealth it will not be easy, but if the whole party gets together to fund it, this isn't a hard plan to put in action.

Now, ofc, something should be said about the alignment implications of running the future campaign off of poison, even if it is essentially free poison. Just make sure you poison the right people, I guess.:smallamused:

EDIT:
Any poison that is going to be used by anything other than the critter that produces it needs to be crafted (basically, refined, see black lotus extract). Ruling otherwise is just crazy, and opens up further sketchy methods of harvesting poison.

That said, please show me the rules that say this is possible. It sounds sketchy, so it's probably in the RAW somewhere.

I don't know the rules justification, but the Poison Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4854.msg162787#msg162787) disagrees.

[Scow2]

It's still probably a 'complex item' getting the poison part of the plantmatter - otherwise, the craft DC wouldn't be 35: " You must succeed on an appropriate skill check to make a complex item." (But you'd still probably get a stupidly large amount of the stuff)

The Poison Handbook, being a fan creation, has it wrong.

[TuggyNE]

It sounds sketchy, so it's probably in the RAW somewhere.

I... I think I want to stick this in my quotesig. May I?

[Rubik]

There are other poisons which are easy to get. Grind up apple seeds for arsenic. Peach pits for cyanide. Easily DC 5 or less.

[Phelix-Mu]

I... I think I want to stick this in my quotesig. May I?

No problem, go ahead.

Seeds are probably living (dead things can't give rise to life without magic). Though I guess you could specify to create dead seeds, make the craft check after creating them. Not sure how a dead seed would affect the potency of the poison, but even if it was less potent, you could just substitute massive quantity and refine further, probably not increasing the DC by more than 10 (more like raising it by 5 to 10).

I'm beginning to appreciate that most of my players are not as intelligent as the people that have written these guides.

[Spuddles]

There are other poisons which are easy to get. Grind up apple seeds for arsenic. Peach pits for cyanide. Easily DC 5 or less.

That's unfortunately not how the rules work. You need to look at what the DC for arsenic or cyanide is. Also note that both of those poisons are only really poisonous when ingested- arsenic doesn't really have an in combat use.