"Deathclaws" in 3.5

[Tokuhara]

Having been on a Fallout NV kick, I came upon Deathclaws again. And Jeeze are they a pain. Nothing short of a maxed out heavy weapon could drop them easily, especially in packs (which is ALL THE TIME).

So I had the thought, "Wouldn't they be a fun monster for 3.5?" Admittedly, "Fun" is a relative term (based on which side of the DM screen you are on), but I thought as a nice mid-to-high level encounter, Deathclaws would be scary.

So here's the question: Which monster from any book is close to a Deathclaw?

The big criteria:

Claw Attacks that hurt like nobody's business (Deathclaws can pretty much dominate any player who isn't ready to face them)

DR out the backside (I had a single Deathclaw survive the Archimedes when it was fired right on top of him, so obviously they have DR that is freaking high)

HP that would make Barbarians cry (I emptied 4 minigun magazines of Armor Piercing ammo and another Deathclaw just wouldn't die)

A Worthy challenge for a "standard" 5-Man party (Cleric, Wizard, Fighter, Rogue, 5th Wheel), and still scary for an optimized party who isn't prepared for them

[Yogibear41]

Never played it but just googled up a pic nasty little buggers lol, do they normally run in packs or do they roam around alone? Do they have any particular weaknesses, special tactics, abilities, etc? Or are they just mindless killing machine beat sticks lol.

[Fouredged Sword]

Scaled up version of the dang crab maybe? The crab itself would be a baby deathclaw. Add HD for larger ones.

[Ranting Fool]

They kinda look like mini Tarrasque and have the same strengths and weaknesses....

Well eat anyone in melee, but if you can keep away and shoot them with enough firepower you'll be fine.

[Surrealistik]

They should have a weakness to Rank 3 Demolitions Expert Bottlecap Mines...

...because they did.

[Tokuhara]

Never played it but just googled up a pic nasty little buggers lol, do they normally run in packs or do they roam around alone? Do they have any particular weaknesses, special tactics, abilities, etc? Or are they just mindless killing machine beat sticks lol.

They are pack hunters with a specialty for leap attacking and sending your sorry bum halfway across the Mojave Wasteland.

As far as I'm aware, Armor Piercing ammo and big thumpy sticks are the only thing that gets through their hide, and their claws bypass your armor. Combined with their unreal strength and razor sharp senses, they are absolutely DEADLY. And if you want scary...

http://images.wikia.com/fallout/images/3/30/DeatclawAlphaFNV.png
This is the Legendary Deathclaw, the strongest thing in Vanilla Fallout New Vegas.

[Surrealistik]

I have to admit, I never really found deathclaws that intimidating because they're stupid and melee only, which means effortless kills when they run into a pile of explosives after you pull them with a rifle shot.

[Tokuhara]

I have to admit, I never really found deathclaws that intimidating because they're stupid and melee only, which means effortless kills when they run into a pile of explosives after you pull them with a rifle shot.

Well, I was Energy Weapon/Science/Medical/Repair spec, so Deathclaws beat me like a drum because I was a "Nerd" Build with lots of skills, and nigh invulnerable. However, wearing Power Armor and packing a highly modified Laser RCW didn't do me much good when Mr. Legendary got all up in my face and said "Rawr"

[Hand_of_Vecna]

Frenzied Berzerker Uberchargers on top of whatever monster you want like feral half ogre lizardfolk. That will cover their deadliness and their massive vulnerability to smart tactics.

I mean, they can't climb.

[Tokuhara]

Frenzied Berzerker Uberchargers on top of whatever monster you want like feral half ogre lizardfolk. That will cover their deadliness and their massive vulnerability to smart tactics.

I mean, they can't climb.

The biggest issue is the DR. I just wish there was a Template all about "Here's some DR, and a metric ****load of it."

[Derpldorf]

I love the fallout universe, lets see if I can help a bit.

Deathclaws have very poor eyesight but superb hearing and scenting capabilities. Deathclaws are beastial in intelegence but highly skilled and cunning predators. They are on average from nine to ten feet tall and hunchbacked. They have incredibly powerful musculature and very tough and thick skin. They have humanoid hands ending in twelve inch long claws capable of killing nearly any other creature in the wasteland in a few swipes, including reinforced robots. They don't have vocal chords but can still growl and shout. They have been known to mimic human speech much like a parrot and use it as part of their hunting habits. They are increadibly agile and quick, easily able to overrun a fleeing human, and can maintain top speed longer and outlast nearly any prey they pursue. They typically travel in groups of four to eight, but tribes of up to twenty have been known to exist. They are reptilian and lay eggs. They lay their eggs in dark safe places and the parents protect and feed their young until they can fend for themselves.

and thats just off the top of my head, they are insanely deadly creatures. You sure about this.


Oh, this is from the lore. Fallout 3 and NV REALLY didn't do them justice at all!

[Zetapup]

The biggest issue is the DR. I just wish there was a Template all about "Here's some DR, and a metric ****load of it."

Maybe mineral warrior? That's a decent 8 DR, if I remember correctly. The burrow speed doesn't really fit, but I guess if you really wanted a template that only gives DR, you could homebrew it.

[DarkEternal]

http://dc358.4shared.com/img/ciWsURX1/s3/demon_-_babau.png

They look a lot like babaus to me, and they do have a lot of the stuff you're looking for.

DR 10/cold iron and good
Electricity and Poison immunity
Darkvision
Resistance to acid, cold and fire 10
SR 14
Telepathy
Can sneak attack for 2d6 extra damage per hit
Attacks with claws and bite
Has a protective layer of slime on it which hurts anyone attacking with a melee weapon( if it's unarmed or a magic weapon, they get a reflex save to negate the damage)

Spellcasting at will(Darkness, dispel magic, see invisibility and greater teleport)

[Tokuhara]

I love the fallout universe, lets see if I can help a bit.

Deathclaws have very poor eyesight but superb hearing and scenting capabilities. Deathclaws are beastial in intelegence but highly skilled and cunning predators. They are on average from nine to ten feet tall and hunchbacked. They have incredibly powerful musculature and very tough and thick skin. They have humanoid hands ending in twelve inch long claws capable of killing nearly any other creature in the wasteland in a few swipes, including reinforced robots. They don't have vocal chords but can still growl and shout. They have been known to mimic human speech much like a parrot and use it as part of their hunting habits. They are increadibly agile and quick, easily able to overrun a fleeing human, and can maintain top speed longer and outlast nearly any prey they pursue. They typically travel in groups of four to eight, but tribes of up to twenty have been known to exist. They are reptilian and lay eggs. They lay their eggs in dark safe places and the parents protect and feed their young until they can fend for themselves.

and thats just off the top of my head, they are insanely deadly creatures. You sure about this.


Oh, this is from the lore. Fallout 3 and NV REALLY didn't do them justice at all!

I am actually stoked. I know that they will be a tough encounter, but the idea is much like how DM's use Kythons from BoVD: Something that cannot be reasoned with, cannot be bargained with, and will not stop until you are dead. It's something the party less has to fight and more has to survive.

And while the Babau would be a semi-close analogue, the slime strikes me as "off"

[DarkEternal]

You could just forget the slime part or add that it is irradiated or whatever.

On a side note, never have my chest hair flared as much up as when I played an unarmed character in New Vegas and cleared the quarry of Deathclaws, matriarchs and alphas with nothing but my trusty gauntlet.

[Tokuhara]

You could just forget the slime part or add that it is irradiated or whatever.

On a side note, never have my chest hair flared as much up as when I played an unarmed character in New Vegas and cleared the quarry of Deathclaws, matriarchs and alphas with nothing but my trusty gauntlet.

Ok. Maybe tag a version of Mineral Warrior on top (ignore the Burrow Speed), skin the slime as Radiation, and perhaps give it a slight Claw buff and drop the bite attack (say claws up 2 dice sizes).

And good for you. I'm actually going to start anew with a Latino Gunslinger-type focused heavily on Repair/Guns/Survival with a possible 4th TAG as Speech using That Gun and a Cowboy Repeater. My Doctor character is fun (especially wearing Dr. Mobius's gear and a floaty atomic thingy), but I've had a cowboy itch.

[White_Drake]

They don't have vocal chords but can still growl and shout. They have been known to mimic human speech much like a parrot and use it as part of their hunting habits.

I'm no biologist, but aren't vocal cords necessary for any vocalization?

[Derpldorf]

I honestly don't know, I just stated it like I remember it.

Edit: I remember now! It's not chords, it's vocal folds similar to birds.

relevant link. (http://birdyrevolution.blogspot.com/2011/01/how-do-birds-talk.html?m=1)

[White_Drake]

Hey, Syrinx... (,the priests of the temples of).

[Zman]

I had the experimental Guasse Rifle and Sniped their heads as an Energy Weapons expert.



In all reality, take Lizardman, drop the Int, up the speed, Str, Con, give them DR10(15 for adult), give them a large racial bonus to senses, let their claws count as magical and Adamantine. Give them the basic Rage Ability. Also give them power attack and Leap Attack as feats.

Should about do it.

[Tokuhara]

I had the experimental Guasse Rifle and Sniped their heads as an Energy Weapons expert.



In all reality, take Lizardman, drop the Int, up the speed, Str, Con, give them DR10(15 for adult), give them a large racial bonus to senses, let their claws count as magical and Adamantine. Give them the basic Rage Ability. Also give them power attack and Leap Attack as feats.

Should about do it.

That seems pretty close. Maybe Pounce as a Racial Ability?

[Derpldorf]

They also should have scent and... I don't remember the name, but there was a special ability somewhere that acted like a hearing version of scent.

[Daftendirekt]

Deathclaws...

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lu2c3efMIm1qk4qen.jpg

Get a Dart Gun. Done. Even deathclaws are easy when their legs are crippled.

[Yogibear41]

[QUOTE=Tokuhara;14683427]

As far as I'm aware, Armor Piercing ammo and big thumpy sticks are the only thing that gets through their hide, and their claws bypass your armor.

Maybe you should give them like DR 20/piercing then?

[Tokuhara]

As far as I'm aware, Armor Piercing ammo and big thumpy sticks are the only thing that gets through their hide, and their claws bypass your armor.

Maybe you should give them like DR 20/piercing then?

Possible. Makes the casters think twice. Though I did kill the Deathclaw Mother with Knock-Knock. After 12 resets. And enough Psycho, Med-X, & Slasher to sedate a horse. And having Lucy as my companion with Oh Baby.

[Fighter1000]

I remember playing Fallout 3 with my evil explosives guy.
Nuka Grenades. Nuff said.
A Strength score of 34 would be about right.
A Constitution score of 22 would be good too.
I'd consider it an Aberration, since it is basically a mutant. Ten Hit Dice of that.
Weapon Focus (claws), Alertness Feat, Power Attack, and even Cleave and Great Cleave, if you're feeling homicidal.
DR 15/adamantine would be good

[Answerer]

Makes the casters think twice.
What is significant to a caster about about DR/piercing?

[nyarlathotep]

I'd just make them Astral Stalkers (MM3) with the feral template (Savage Species)

[Tokuhara]

This is actually interesting to see.

Right now, I've gotten 5 or 6 different suggestions for how to make something as simple as Deathclaws, which from a D&D point are little more than hyper-muscular beatsticks with some variant of pounce-claw-claw.

And this is one of those "There is no Right Answer" type of post. The Outsiders may be better at higher level play while the Feral Lizardfolk Abominations/Skinned Dang Crabs (probably better for Mirelurks, but no judgement here)/Frenzied Berserker could be better at lower (relative to Outsiders) levels.

[ghost_warlock]

Awesome topic. :smallbiggrin: Though I can't contribute to the 3.5 mechanics, I ran a "Deathclaw Month" last year during my 4e DarkSun game. Had Alpha male & female, babies, young, and irradiated deathclaws. I don't have the stats I used on this computer (used the old builder to make them) but I'll post for comparison when I find the files. :smallsmile:

[Tokuhara]

Awesome topic. :smallbiggrin: Though I can't contribute to the 3.5 mechanics, I ran a "Deathclaw Month" last year during my 4e DarkSun game. Had Alpha male & female, babies, young, and irradiated deathclaws. I don't have the stats I used on this computer (used the old builder to make them) but I'll post for comparison when I find the files. :smallsmile:

Deathclaws. In Dark Sun.

Did you wake up that morning and say to yourself, "I think I'll do Evil today"?

[ghost_warlock]

Deathclaws. In Dark Sun.

Did you wake up that morning and say to yourself, "I think I'll do Evil today"?

The scenario was that the party ran into a cave to escape a dust storm and a cave-in trapped them inside...with the deathclaws. :smallbiggrin:

Edit: I actually found the pdfs I made of the on my external drive & uploaded them to Google Docs. Ended up not using the Legendary Deathclaw and substituted it with Rawr. :smallbiggrin:

Deathclaws of various types (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6Upp_2O_mwRVTVONmdRaWtndmM/edit?usp=sharing)
Rawr (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6Upp_2O_mwRRWNVOFhFUlRIYW8/edit?usp=sharing)

[Tokuhara]

Bud. Those are some evil evil 4e critters. Nice of you to give the DLC some love. Now, if only you statted Stripe out...

[ghost_warlock]

I wanted to, but none of the characters in the party took Wild Wasteland. :smallwink:

[Zman]

That seems pretty close. Maybe Pounce as a Racial Ability?

Of course, can't believe I didn't list it.

[limejuicepowder]

I can't believe coincidences like this: after not touching the game for over a year, I picked up fallout NV 2 days again.

I also think the quick way to make a deathclaw is just use the stats for a gray render.

Edit: Oh and deathclaws think they're all that until Annabelle and Mercy come a knockin'; after that they don't have much to say.

[Sith_Happens]

Advanced Mineral Warrior Fleshraker Dinosaurs?

[Tokuhara]

Again, loads of awesomesauce. The Grey Render is an odd choice really, but ultimately clever. The Fleshraker is a sexy idea, if just shy of what I would guess a Deathclaw's intellect is. My guess is a 3 or maybe a 4 (smart for an animal, but nowhere near that of a human)

[Bakkan]

Haven't played Fallout, so I'm just going on what I'm hearing here. You could consider slapping a bunch of Totemist levels on something that's already beefy (like a demon or something). This would give it claws if it didn't have them already, and could boost his strength with natural attacks through the roof. Totemist can get you Pounce, for instance, and many other goodies. Unfortunately, I don't know of any way to get super-high DR out of soulmelds, so that'll probably have to come from the race.

[HunterOfJello]

You could always make them flightless Fang Dragons.

[Threadnaught]

Make the Tarrasque Large, give it 50-100 speed, make it capable of hitting incorporeal enemies and ignoring DR. Give it an insane DR and Blindsight/True Seeing out to double/triple it's movement then increase it's initiative to Supreme Initiative Divine Rank 0. And you have those filthy monsters that attack level 2 Fallout 3 players, near Megaton... Also make it CR2 so players don't have towait until upwards of level 10 for them to spawn randomly. Such as the level 2 character vs Deathclaw scenario.
I'm not referring to Old Olney, Deathclaw Sanctuary or north of the Dunwich Building either, I'm talking between the Bethesda Ruins and Springvale School. As a random spawn. At level 2.

There's a reason some people Sneak around between levels 2-4 to collect as many Bobbleheads and Skillbooks as possible before picking a fight with anything.

[Tokuhara]

Make the Tarrasque Large, give it 50-100 speed, make it capable of hitting incorporeal enemies and ignoring DR. Give it an insane DR and Blindsight/True Seeing out to double/triple it's movement then increase it's initiative to Supreme Initiative Divine Rank 0. And you have those filthy monsters that attack level 2 Fallout 3 players, near Megaton... Also make it CR2 so players don't have towait until upwards of level 10 for them to spawn randomly. Such as the level 2 character vs Deathclaw scenario.
I'm not referring to Old Olney, Deathclaw Sanctuary or north of the Dunwich Building either, I'm talking between the Bethesda Ruins and Springvale School. As a random spawn. At level 2.

There's a reason some people Sneak around between levels 2-4 to collect as many Bobbleheads and Skillbooks as possible before picking a fight with anything.

I might do this one for the Legendary/Stripe/Rawr, but not as "Standard Issue" deathclaws. So with this, we have the nastiest Deathclaws I've seen yet and definitely worthy of the Unique Deathclaws (Rawr, The Legendary Deathclaw, and Stripe, though with stripe, I'd drop it to size small with size large stats)

[Talakeal]

They kinda look like mini Tarasque and have the same strengths and weaknesses....

Well eat anyone in melee, but if you can keep away and shoot them with enough firepower you'll be fine.

They actually are mini-tarasques. The model was created for the tarasque, who was to be a hidden character for the forgotten realms fighting game that interplay was working on. They would go on to instead create Baldur's gate, and many of the graphics they developed for the fighting game were cannibalized for other projects.

On a side note, you kind of run into a problem comparing D&D with sci fi or modern games. People assume that because guns are SO much more powerful than old fashioned weapons that clearly anything that can survive them must have enormous levels of AC, HP, or DR.

Death claws are tough, but not THAT tough, you can take them out with sticks and spears in Fallout, it just takes a while. Besides, they are perfectly ordinary (albeit genetically engineered) living creatures, creatures with DR are usually supernatural in some manner or not living creatures at all like undead or constructs.