What is the most obscure thing you know about d&d? [Archive]

Ernir

2013-02-09, 11:23 PM

This one again? Okay.

From core, I certainly don't see this one from the School descriptions (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm) mentioned a lot:

If one abjuration spell is active within 10 feet of another for 24 hours or more, the magical fields interfere with each other and create barely visible energy fluctuations. The DC to find such spells with the Search skill drops by 4.

ksbsnowowl

2013-02-09, 11:53 PM

The Head of Vecna.

And the Dread Gazebo.

Slipperychicken

2013-02-10, 12:00 AM

The Head of Vecna.

And the Dread Gazebo.

Those are legends. Not obscure in the slightest. Even my players who barely grasp Vancian know of the Dread Gazebo.

Daftendirekt

2013-02-10, 12:07 AM

Forrestfire

2013-02-10, 12:12 AM

Honestly, the most obscure thing I can think of is that according to RAW, potions and other alchemical liquids are lighter than air. A flask is 1.5 lbs, and a potion or liquid in a flask is 1 lb.

Since I learned that, I've wanted to fight an army of undead by crashing a zeppelin that flies using Holy Water :smalltongue:

Morcleon

2013-02-10, 12:16 AM

Once the character has rested in a suitable environment, it takes only an act of concentration spanning 1 full round to regain all power points of the psionic character’s daily limit.

Psionic characters require 8 hrs and 1 round to regain PP. :smalltongue:

Big Fau

2013-02-10, 01:26 AM

Urpriest

2013-02-10, 01:38 AM

There are several prestige classes that require gender: female, but only one (from a non-Dragon source) that requires gender: male. That prestige class? Eunuch Warlock.

Slipperychicken

2013-02-10, 01:41 AM

Sucks all the fun out of playing an Enchanter.

Also makes the [Mind Affecting] tag somewhat superfluous in the school...

Straybow

2013-02-10, 01:43 AM

Morcleon

2013-02-10, 01:48 AM

A magical potion (or oil) is 1 oz of liquid in a vial that wieghs 1/10 lb

He's not referring to magical potions and oils. He's talking about the flask (empty) and alchemist's fire/holy water. From this page. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm)

Flask (empty) 3 cp 1½ lb.

Alchemist’s fire (flask) 20 gp 1 lb.

Holy water (flask) 25 gp 1 lb.

Forrestfire

2013-02-10, 01:49 AM

A magical potion (or oil) is 1 oz of liquid in a vial that wieghs 1/10 lb

So they are.

Alchemical fluids such as acid and holy water are still stored in flasks, though, and so is nonmagical oil.

Curmudgeon

2013-02-10, 01:50 AM

If you're attempting to activate a magic device, a DC 40 UMD check will let you emulate a specific individual (Dragon # 329, page 67).

AntiTrust

2013-02-10, 01:51 AM

Sylvan gives three examples of creatures that speak it. Dryads, brownies and leprechauns

There is no 3.5 MM that includes brownies or leprechauns.

The Viscount

2013-02-10, 02:27 AM

Might not be all that obscure, but certainly interesting.

Doresain, the demigod King of Ghouls, was given a domain and portfolio in Libris Mortis. He is mentioned in passing very briefly as the "King of Ghouls" in Book of Vile Darkness, where it mentions he is a servant of Yeenoghu. They remembered this when they wrote Fiendish Codex, and mention him by full name.

Door of Decay is the only spell which makes an exception for advanced learning; it can be learned by dread necromancers despite not being a necromancy spell.

ShadowFireLance

2013-02-10, 02:32 AM

Anyone know what the ordial plane is? I do.

Forrestfire

2013-02-10, 02:39 AM

Anyone know what the ordial plane is? I do.

So obscure that searching 'ordial plane D&D' gives a total of four results in google. Nice :smallamused:

Also, I love the irony of a thread dedicated to sharing knowledge of obscure things.

Venger

2013-02-10, 02:42 AM

The infinite staircase will show you a passage to a door that opens to your heart's desire. you know exactly what it is and that it's right there behind the door. if you fail a lowish will save your character is "forever removed from play" having achieved their life's goal. if they make it, they never see the door again.

Carth

2013-02-10, 02:52 AM

Since different classes get access to certain spells at different levels, the prices for two characters to make the same item might actually be different. An item is only worth two times what the caster of lowest possible level can make it for. Calculate the market price based on the lowest possible level caster, no matter who makes the item.

Which means you can essentially pay double for an item to have as high a caster level as you can finagle. Great for making sure your items are immune to dispel magic variants. Decently useful for scrolls, too.

AuraTwilight

2013-02-10, 03:33 AM

The first time Tomb of Horrors was ran for official tournament play, only one group got past the first room.

navar100

2013-02-10, 05:24 AM

The 2E inspiration for 3E's Persistent Spell.

Personality trait #26.

NichG

2013-02-10, 05:41 AM

The old Planescape lore is fun, but there's so much of it to pull from here... Ordial is pretty good, and then there's the whole story behind the inspiration for the Lady of Pain which is somewhat apocryphal anyhow, the rare references to the Serpent, and also that one species from the Ethereal plane that basically looks and functions identically to Dabuses while having no connection to Sigil or the LoP.

That aside, my favorite random screwy thing I've found so far is that a Staff of Power can double all melee damage it deals. Which makes it a much better weapon for (non-ubercharger) martial melee characters than the usual swords/etc.

Another fun one - illusions cast on Limbo in 2ed had a fixed percent chance of becoming fully real and persisting outside Limbo.

Temotei

2013-02-10, 05:54 AM

Simply resting in armor will not bring penalties--only sleep will.

Sleeping in Armor
A character who sleeps in medium or heavy armor is automatically fatigued the next day. He or she takes a -2 penalty on Strength and Dexterity and can’t charge or run. Sleeping in light armor does not cause fatigue.

Eldariel

2013-02-10, 06:56 AM

That has got to be the most obscure [and most pointless] rule ever.

It's a fairly cool rule. Makes your Explosive Runes bomb radiate after 24 hours (-lots to search DC from the hundreds of Explosive Runes on it).

Saph

2013-02-10, 07:05 AM

If you look at the Potions and Oils (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/potionsAndOils.htm) magic item chart for D&D 3.5, potions of Enlarge Person and Reduce Person are listed as 250 GP each. The standard price for a 1st-level potion is 50 GP. Why the difference?

The reason: back in 3.0, Enlarge Person and Reduce Person both adjusted the target's size by a factor of 10% per caster level, to a maximum of 50% at CL 5. So the standard Enlarge or Reduce potion was made at CL 5 to gain the full benefit, and a CL 5 potion has a base price of 250 GP.

When D&D 3.0 was updated to 3.5, WotC removed the 10% per CL clause from Enlarge Person and Reduce Person, but copied the potion cost tables across without remembering to change them. And that's why 3.5 games are filled with randomly generated Enlarge and Reduce potions of caster level 5.

And now you know! :smalltongue:

Khedrac

2013-02-10, 07:38 AM

Since the ordial plane is hombrew I don't think it counts...

I will go for the errors in the old Mystara gazetteers and trail maps:

There's a river in Rockhome that feeds major rivers going in both directions from the mountain range (it's roughly on the map join for the trail maps).

When the Gazetteer for Karameikos was written they had not invented the map symbol for "forested hills" and thus used the standard "hills" symbol. The text quite clearly states that this hills are covered in forests. When they produced later maps (neighboring Gazetteers, the trail maps etc.) they simply copied the map without updating the hills for the new symbols.

Oh yes, and I actually know what the difference are (or most of them) between the two versions of X1 Isle of Dread (a monster swap and a map and description change).

Toy Killer

2013-02-10, 07:54 AM

I dunno if Chainmail counts as D&D, but I know why Elves are immune to ghoul's paralysis but not a Ghast's....

Woodzyowl

2013-02-10, 08:42 AM

I almost have memorized the grapple rules. Is that sufficiently obscure? :smalltongue:

sonofzeal

2013-02-10, 09:14 AM

Doresain, the demigod King of Ghouls, was given a domain and portfolio in Libris Mortis. He is mentioned in passing very briefly as the "King of Ghouls" in Book of Vile Darkness, where it mentions he is a servant of Yeenoghu. They remembered this when they wrote Fiendish Codex, and mention him by full name.
Heh, I knew this one. I have a big fan-crush on Gnolls, and one campaign I DMed involved a Dread Necromancer turning himself into a Spellstitched Gravetouched Ghoul... which, since the King of Ghouls is subservient to the God of Gnolls, and Gnolls were the main opposition, all led to the Dread Necromancer backstabbing the party at a key point. Good times, good times.

Here's one. You remember the Kuo-Toa in MM1? Pathetic frog creatures? CR 2, with a unique racial "Pincer Staff" weapon?

....they're prone to madness. Like, "28 Days Later" Rage style madness. And every Kuo-Toa present when one goes mad has a 10% chance of going mad themselves. If you have a crowd of 100 Kuo-Toa and one breaks, ten more will go mad. And of the remaining 89, about 58 will go mad from witnessing those ten go over the edge. At that point, there's roughly a 0.003% chance you'll be left with any Kuo-Toa who aren't homicidally insane. All in the first round.

So... uh.... don't hang out near large groups of Kuo-Toa. Just sayin'.

Venger

2013-02-10, 10:11 AM

I dunno if Chainmail counts as D&D, but I know why Elves are immune to ghoul's paralysis but not a Ghast's....

chainmail totally counts as D&D. what's the reason?

love that doresain bit. an added bit of humor: two of the spells in the hunger domain (granted only by doresain) refer to him simply as "the king" instead of the king of ghouls (bite of the king, which lets you swallow your enemies whole, and eyes of the king, which lets you summon dire bats) he is also described in libris mortis as wearing a pristine white suit with tiny metal studs all over it, and is revered by acts of gluttony, whether they're consciously performed for him or not.

doresain is elvis.

Sgt. Cookie

2013-02-10, 10:35 AM

A full round action can be split into two standard actions. Cast Clerity after you start a full round action, and finish it whenever you damn well please.

Eldariel

2013-02-10, 10:49 AM

chainmail totally counts as D&D. what's the reason?

Elves were very expensive troops. Ghouls were cheap. Ghoul paralysis allowed them to beat Elves especially efficiency-wise and they were generally the preferred army so Elves were made immune as a balance move. And they still are in D&D 3.5e.

Kelb_Panthera

2013-02-10, 10:54 AM

A full round action can be split into two standard actions. Cast Clerity after you start a full round action, and finish it whenever you damn well please.

That's not how that works.

That rule (on page 142 of the PHB) says you can split a full round action by taking a standard action to initiate it and then finish it on the next round with your standard action for that round.

Even if you do take the word "can" as permissive, rather than prescriptive, in that rule; you can't split a spell up like that. If, for whatever reason, you can't finish the spell in the following round it's simply lost since the spell was disrupted.

Sgt. Cookie

2013-02-10, 11:15 AM

No matter the interpritation, the rule explicitly calls out a spell with a full round casting time as a legitimate use. Therefore, you can split up spells that way.

Unless I'm mistaken, an imediate action doesn't break concentration.

And finaly, if the rule means that 2 standard actions are the same as a full round action, then you could start a spell with a full round casting time, use all the other actions (Excluding swift) you have, then cast Clerity to finish the other spell.

I may be wrong, of course.

ShadowFireLance

2013-02-10, 11:16 AM

So obscure that searching 'ordial plane D&D' gives a total of four results in google. Nice :smallamused:

Also, I love the irony of a thread dedicated to sharing knowledge of obscure things.

xD Though, I really can't take full credit, Afroakuma takes that:

The Ordial Plane is a mysterious place. The Rule of Three and the Unity of Rings both seem to confirm its existence as the Plane of Proof - that which links matter and belief, supplying form to the Outer Planes - yet it has never been conclusively confirmed by planar explorers.

Some believe it may be that outer realm in which Vestiges are trapped, though this is unlikely. Many have conjectured that it might be inhabited by those creatures which call both the Ethereal and the Astral home - completing the trine, if you will. Those creatures certainly aren't telling.

The Ordial Plane, if it does exist, would likely mirror characteristics of the Ethereal and Astral Planes; no layers, just an infinite expanse, and with borders to the Inner and Outer Planes. As the conventional plane (in the sense of being a part of this multiverse) furthest from the Material Plane, it is inherently difficult for Primes to conceive of. This may be why planar travelers have never found it - stumbling across a gate to the Ordial, they may not have been able to recognize the portal for what it was, or even the realm beyond for a different place.

You know, Being the Planes Expert of the Forum's.

Since the ordial plane is hombrew I don't think it counts...

Say whaa? Not at all, Ask Afro.

123456789blaaa

2013-02-10, 11:30 AM

chainmail totally counts as D&D. what's the reason?

love that doresain bit. an added bit of humor: two of the spells in the hunger domain (granted only by doresain) refer to him simply as "the king" instead of the king of ghouls (bite of the king, which lets you swallow your enemies whole, and eyes of the king, which lets you summon dire bats) he is also described in libris mortis as wearing a pristine white suit with tiny metal studs all over it, and is revered by acts of gluttony, whether they're consciously performed for him or not.

doresain is elvis.

This is my favorite thing in this thread so far :smallbiggrin:.

Doresain is now required to have bard levels whenever he is statted out :smalltongue:.

Pickford

2013-02-10, 11:36 AM

Forrestfire

2013-02-10, 11:44 AM

Doesn't that just make the combined weight 2.5 lbs?

Nope, since the weights listed on the table are the total weights of the items.

Venger

2013-02-10, 12:05 PM

This is my favorite thing in this thread so far :smallbiggrin:.

Doresain is now required to have bard levels whenever he is statted out :smalltongue:.

glad you like it

afroakuma

2013-02-10, 12:09 PM

That would be a tough one, since I know quite a bit of obscure D&D lore (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=265884).

And for the record, the Ordial Plane is homebrew. Some of the concepts it references, however, such as the Macrocosm, are not.

123456789blaaa

2013-02-10, 12:12 PM

Ooh Ooh I remember one!

There is actually a really obscure RAW legal way to summon an Alkilith.

In the bottom lefthand corner of page 47 of the fiend folio you can see a sidebar which says:

Characters with the thrall of Juiblex prestige class (from the book of vile darkness) can summon an alkilith using the summon major demon ability they gain at 9th level, even thought the alkilith has one more HD than is normally allowed for the use of that ability.

ksbsnowowl

2013-02-10, 12:30 PM

Here's one:

Earliest and "cheapest" way to raise someone from the dead?
Lesser Planar Ally (Clr 4) -> Movanic Deva (FF), who gets Raise Dead 1/day as a SLA.

Only costs 100 XP.

When I ran my PC's through Expedition to Castle Ravenloft they were two or three levels above the recommended starting level, so I boosted everything by two or three levels (gave Strahd the Vampire Lord template), including Madam Eva (from Cleric 5 to Cleric 7). This helped a whole lot when my party fighter died to sneak attacking Babau demons; otherwise there would have been no method with which to raise him except Reincarnate, which he did not want.

Urpriest

2013-02-10, 01:23 PM

This is my favorite thing in this thread so far :smallbiggrin:.

Doresain is now required to have bard levels whenever he is statted out :smalltongue:.

Actually, this leads to an additional obscure fact: Doresain is statted out in BoVD. As a CR 10. As such, he is almost certainly the weakest being capable of granting divine spells.

Vaern

2013-02-10, 01:39 PM

The Sublime Chord prestige class technically grants access to 7th, 8th, and 9th level bard spells, although no such spells exist.

Newoblivion

2013-02-10, 01:44 PM

I read (not sure where though) that Asmadeos wasn't the first devil to rule the nine hells, and that the devil before him was actually Satan. Also, Asmadeos is much more then he looks, and rumors are that he is actually some kind of huge serpent coiled around the 9th layer of hell. But his huge body is wounded or some such.

The Viscount

2013-02-10, 02:43 PM

Actually, this leads to an additional obscure fact: Doresain is statted out in BoVD. As a CR 10. As such, he is almost certainly the weakest being capable of granting divine spells.

If we added in divine ranks, he'd certainly jump in CR. Using BoVD stats which have him pre-apotheosis, he is weaker even than his herald, a 13th lvl gravetouched ghoul barbarian. He also can apply the gravetouched ghoul template even when it doesn't apply, even though he grants the template. He's a rebel who breaks his own rules. Sounds like Elvis to me.

123456789blaaa

2013-02-10, 02:50 PM

Actually, this leads to an additional obscure fact: Doresain is statted out in BoVD. As a CR 10. As such, he is almost certainly the weakest being capable of granting divine spells.

Actually Doresain got turned into a Demigod in Libris Mortis. The BoVD simply describes him as a "powerful demonic entity" with no mention if him being a god. His stats don't have any godly traits either.

EDIT: ninja'd

The Viscount

2013-02-10, 03:13 PM

Doresain gives me speed.

123456789blaaa

2013-02-10, 03:17 PM

One might even say he gives you

:smallcool:

Godspeed.

YEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!

Norin

2013-02-10, 03:23 PM

The Sublime Chord prestige class technically grants access to 7th, 8th, and 9th level bard spells, although no such spells exist.

Hmm, well well, that's not exactly how i read it.

A sublime chord can choose spells from the sorcerer/wizard spell list or the bard spell list; if a spell appears on both lists at different levels, she uses the bard version of the spell.

It's quite clear that it grants spells from sorc\wiz or bard list. If the spell appears on both lists, you use the bard version.

Says nothing about bard 7-9 spells really. Or am I reading the wrong part of this?

The Viscount

2013-02-10, 03:25 PM

One might even say he gives you

:smallcool:

Godspeed.

YEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!

Indeed. (cow.org/csi)

Vaern

2013-02-10, 03:58 PM

Hmm, well well, that's not exactly how i read it.

It's quite clear that it grants spells from sorc\wiz or bard list. If the speall appears on both lists, you use the bard version.

Says nothing about bard 7-9 spells really. Or am I reading the wrong part of this?

It also says nothing about their selection of bard spells being limited only to 6th level and lower. It merely shows a table illustrating that they have spells known and spells per day ranging from 4th-9th level, and states that they can learn spells from either the sor/wiz or bard spell lists.
It can easily be inferred from this that a Sublime Chord, defined as a bard who has sacrificed Bardic Music for more powerful spellcasting abilities, would be capable of creating and casting spell from the theoretical Brd 7 through Brd 9 spell levels.

lunchbox201

2013-02-10, 03:58 PM

Vin Diesel, the actor, wrote the intro to D&D 30th anniversary book and is apparently a huge fan of D&D (i dont know how he feels about 4e)

Cicciograna

2013-02-10, 06:09 PM

On the Abyss Map from Fiendish Codex I there are the seals of some vestiges from Tome of Magic. Specifically, the symbols are those of Ipos, Paimon, Marbas, Barbatos and Samigina, but only the first two are vestiges from ToM: actually the names are from the Lesser Key of Solomon.

TuggyNE

2013-02-10, 06:36 PM

nedz

2013-02-10, 06:55 PM

tyckspoon

2013-02-10, 07:09 PM

Actually I thought that all of the vestiges were from the Key of Solomon ?

Some of them are notable figures from D&D's history (Acererak, Tenebrous, Karsus) I think almost all the other ones are Solomonic demons, yes.

Invader

2013-02-10, 07:49 PM

Kuulvheysoon

2013-02-10, 08:04 PM

Here's one:

Earliest and "cheapest" way to raise someone from the dead?
Lesser Planar Ally (Clr 4) -> Movanic Deva (FF), who gets Raise Dead 1/day as a SLA.

Only costs 100 XP.

While certainly the earliest (that I can think of besides revivify), the cheapest way would be Spirit Shaman 11 (CD). Once a week, you get a revivify effect free. Free.

Twilightwyrm

2013-02-10, 08:07 PM

That has got to be the most obscure [and most pointless] rule ever.

Which is why we are now obligated to find some manner of abusing it...

Hiro Protagonest

2013-02-10, 08:16 PM

Vin Diesel, the actor, wrote the intro to D&D 30th anniversary book and is apparently a huge fan of D&D (i dont know how he feels about 4e)

I dunno about the first part, but the bolded part isn't obscure at all.

Venger

2013-02-10, 08:23 PM

I dunno about the first part, but the bolded part isn't obscure at all.

it's quite correct. you can read part of it right here (http://www.amazon.com/30-Years-Adventure-Dungeons-Dragons/dp/0786934980)

Hiro Protagonest

2013-02-10, 08:25 PM

it's quite correct. you can read part of it right here (http://www.amazon.com/30-Years-Adventure-Dungeons-Dragons/dp/0786934980)

...I meant I don't know about the obscurity of the first part.

Venger

2013-02-10, 08:35 PM

...I meant I don't know about the obscurity of the first part.

ohhh, I misunderstood. I thought you meant "I don't know about the first part" as in "I'm not sure if that's true." I understand what you mean now.

AC is another somewhat arcane but easy to learn fact. since chainmail was adapted from a ship-to-ship combat game, they broke a ship's armor value into separate components to derive the whole. when the game shifted to miniatures, it was something they didn't change.

Postmodernist

2013-02-10, 09:56 PM

Worthy (http://www.toplessrobot.com/2009/04/the_12_most_insane_old_school_dungeons_dragons_rul .php) and amusing reads. (http://www.comicsalliance.com/2010/12/16/weird-dd-questions-dungeons-dragons/)

Squirrel_Dude

2013-02-10, 10:14 PM

I'm not sure it's really obscure knowledge, but:

Giving a creature/chracter a > +14/+15 advantage on an oppossed roll is a waste of resources. By +14/+15 (15 when ties are counted as a loss), it is already statistically unlikely (<5%) that you will lose. By +12 you have an over 90% chance to win. By +7 you have a > 75% chance to win.

Advantage being how much larger your modifier is compared to another persons.

Venger

2013-02-10, 10:34 PM

I'm not sure it's really obscure knowledge, but:

Giving a creature/chracter a > 14 or 15 advantage on an oppossed roll is a waste of resources. By +14/+15 (15 when ties are counted as a loss), it is already statistically unlikely (<5%) that you will lose. By +12 you have an over 90% chance to win.

well, that's not really true. you don't know what kind of mod a potential enemy can have on an opposed check. it could be almost any number, which is why with opposed (if you're specced for it) you want to get your number as high as possible as opposed to flat dcs (tumble, etc) where it's less important

Squirrel_Dude

2013-02-10, 10:37 PM

well, that's not really true. you don't know what kind of mod a potential enemy can have on an opposed check. it could be almost any number, which is why with opposed (if you're specced for it) you want to get your number as high as possible as opposed to flat dcs (tumble, etc) where it's less importantObviously your bonus should be as high as possible, but if you can guess it (or are a DM and know it), you shouldn't make your advantage higher than 14 or 15.

Starbuck_II

2013-02-10, 10:58 PM

Probably not that obscure, but Divine casters don't need sleep to regain spells. They just need to wait till the time is right (dawn, etc) to regain spells.

So they are best for watch duty.

Venger

2013-02-10, 11:17 PM

Probably not that obscure, but Divine casters don't need sleep to regain spells. They just need to wait till the time is right (dawn, etc) to regain spells.

So they are best for watch duty.

related (again not obscure) but unless you cast spells, there aren't any rules that say you need to sleep at all, there being no drawbacks for going without, or minimum requirements of sleep that creatures who sleep actually require.

Big Fau

2013-02-10, 11:26 PM

This is a personal favorite:

A deep halfling can also intuit depth, sensing the approximate distance underground as naturally as a human can sense which way is up.

It implies that only Humans can tell which way is up. :smallbiggrin:

Cog

2013-02-10, 11:35 PM

It implies that only Humans can tell which way is up. :smallbiggrin:
Not really, it just implies that the reader has some familiarity with humans.

sambouchah

2013-02-11, 12:07 AM

WAAAAAYYYYY down near the bottom of http://www.headinjurytheater.com/article95.htm is my favorite piece of knowledge. You'll know the one when you see about a million nude goblins

Urpriest

2013-02-11, 12:54 AM

Can you source this for me, if its in the MM I apologize, I'm afb atm.

Looks like it's MMV, though apparently the 10% chance only applies to the witnesses of the first conversion, there explicitly aren't additional conversions after the first witnesses.

On the Vin Diesel note, it's a bit more obscure that he taught Dame Judy Dench to play D&D, and now she DMs for her grandchildren.

The Viscount

2013-02-11, 03:13 AM

MeiLeTeng

2013-02-11, 03:35 AM

The longest non-permanent duration for a spell I've seen is 1 year. Points to whomever knows which it is.

The chaining or slumber versions of Binding are 1 year / CL

Sith_Happens

2013-02-11, 04:44 AM

The longest non-permanent duration for a spell I've seen is 1 year. Points to whomever knows which it is.

There are a couple 1 year summoning spells in BoED. IIRC, one of them is for three Bariaurs and the other is for a unicorn.

Kelb_Panthera

2013-02-11, 05:41 AM

Any spell attached to a hallow effect lasts for one year.

Gice

2013-02-11, 05:51 AM

The longest non-permanent duration for a spell I've seen is 1 year. Points to whomever knows which it is.

I'm not sure this is the spell you're referring to, but the one that immediately comes to mind is Hallow (or Unhallow). While the spells' duration is instantaneous (after a casting time of 24 hours), you can choose a spell effect (from a list) that lasts for a year.

I don't think I can contribute a pointless (as in the game show) piece of information to this thread :smallsmile:

edit: too slow :smallfrown:

Wings of Peace

2013-02-11, 06:27 AM

I know that the Diablerie is both a book and official content.

Sgt. Cookie

2013-02-11, 08:45 AM

ToB Martial Scripts can be written in any language. Ignan, Druidic, hell even Truespeech are all acceptable.

Psyren

2013-02-11, 08:59 AM

One I don't see often, is that you don't have to select the target of a spell (or power) until after you finish casting it. So you can start casting, say, Dominate Person while your allies continue to fight, and on the following round when it completes, you can choose an enemy your allies haven't killed or gotten under control yet. Many DMs ask players to declare their targets ahead of time (and cause spells to "fizzle" if that target dies or otherwise becomes untargetable) but this is not RAW.

Venger

2013-02-11, 09:07 AM

The longest non-permanent duration for a spell I've seen is 1 year. Points to whomever knows which it is.

one that no one's guessed yet is heart of stone.

sonofzeal

2013-02-11, 09:23 AM

Can you source this for me, if its in the MM I apologize, I'm afb atm.
MM5, pg 99. That's why it's so obscure. It's not in the MM1, and buried way back in the end of the MM5 section on them.

razorback

2013-02-11, 09:31 AM

it's quite correct. you can read part of it right here (http://www.amazon.com/30-Years-Adventure-Dungeons-Dragons/dp/0786934980)

And, apparently, he wrote it -

Thirty Years of Adventure: A Celebration of Dungeons & Dragons (D&D Retrospective)

Thirty Years of Adventure: A Celebration of Dungeons & Dragons (D&D Retrospective) [Hardcover]
Vin Diesel (Author)

HunterOfJello

2013-02-11, 09:45 AM

Teamwork Benefits exist and some of them are actually useful.

(I've never seen them mentioned here on the boards a single time before.)

killem2

2013-02-11, 10:11 AM

Venger

2013-02-11, 10:17 AM

The [Evil] Descriptor is not a hinderence to arcane casters of good alignment and vice versa.

Don't think it's obscure? Give the source where it comes right out and says it, and tell me that book isn't obscure for such an important rule :).

repeatedly casting [evil] spells will RAW nudge your alignment in that direction, but it's a rule few people really care about.

it's cited in fiendish codices 1 and 2 and referenced with malconvoker's unrestricted conjuration ability in complete scoundrel

Teamwork Benefits exist and some of them are actually useful.

(I've never seen them mentioned here on the boards a single time before.)

someone else knows they exist? cool! I've seen them in iron chef a few times, and mentioned them myself, but they are pretty much never addressed. I enjoy them as well.

Story

2013-02-11, 10:35 AM

I've seen them mentioned occasionally, but they're usually dismissed as junk.

killem2

2013-02-11, 10:44 AM

repeatedly casting [evil] spells will RAW nudge your alignment in that direction, but it's a rule few people really care about.

Yes, they can. Wizards themselves said that clearly in Expedition to the Demonweb Pits, on page 98. I quote the relevant part.

(Remember that wizards of any alignment can cast spells with the evil descriptor without ill effects.)

The spell in question is dread word, which, iirc, allows you to use the very Dark Speech. It doesn't get any more evil than that. And yet, as said by WotC themselves, a lawful good wizard can cast it without repercussion. Sure, the spell effect itself will probably effect him, but not the fact that he is casting an [Evil] spell.

To me, as the DM, I see this as saying, use spells for evil, you turn evil. Evil like spells are only a concern to divine.

Psyren

2013-02-11, 10:45 AM

Spell Onslaught isn't bad - you can use summons or split yourself up to gain the benefits. +5 untyped to beat SR isn't shabby at all, and your team can cast anything (like magic missile) to give you the benefit with a more powerful attack.

Speaking of Eberron - did you know that Healing spells don't work in the Mournland, but healing psionic powers do?

Totally Guy

2013-02-11, 11:35 AM

I know why Gary Gygax didn't celebrate Christmas.

A note from Gary (http://playingattheworld.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/gary-gygax-on-christmas-and-christianity.html).

sreservoir

2013-02-11, 12:38 PM

Psyren

2013-02-11, 12:42 PM

they're transmutation (healing) under transparency, yes?

Yes - however, they were given a specific exemption that allows them to function normally. You can read about it in Five Nations in the Cyre/Mournland chapter.

Venger

2013-02-11, 02:34 PM

To me, as the DM, I see this as saying, use spells for evil, you turn evil. Evil like spells are only a concern to divine.

I agree with you personally, I was just talking about what rules stuff said.

Shining Wrath

2013-02-11, 03:16 PM

D&D grew out of a tabletop figures game named "Chainmail".

Venger

2013-02-11, 03:24 PM

if you have at least 10 ranks in balance, you can resist a trip check with a balance check at a -10 penalty. you cannot trip them back if you beat their check.

Morcleon

2013-02-11, 03:26 PM

A DC 40 Tumble check lets you make a 10' step.

Daftendirekt

2013-02-11, 03:45 PM

On the Vin Diesel note, it's a bit more obscure that he taught Dame Judy Dench to play D&D, and now she DMs for her grandchildren.

...That is awesome.

Rogue Shadows

2013-02-11, 03:51 PM

On the Vin Diesel note, it's a bit more obscure that he taught Dame Judy Dench to play D&D, and now she DMs for her grandchildren.

...so, basically, something good did come out of The Chronicles of Riddick?

Illarion

2013-02-11, 03:57 PM

I don't know how obsure this is but, I know what happens when you cast Light on a piece of chalk then write with it.

Forrestfire

2013-02-11, 03:59 PM

I don't know how obsure this is but, I know what happens when you cast Light on a piece of chalk then write with it.

The chalk glows but stuff you write doesn't?

Menzath

2013-02-11, 04:05 PM

From the site http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_incorporealsubtype&alpha=

Even when hit by spells, including touch spells, or magic weapons, it has a 50% chance to ignore any damage from a corporeal source (except for positive energy, negative energy, force effects such as magic missile, or attacks made with ghost touch weapons).

Note how it says positive and negative energy.
yes you can bolt of glory or CSW that spectre or wraith. even undeath to death it.
Also means holy swords N such hit without miss chance technically.

To bad doesn't work VS ethereal the same way.

Morcleon

2013-02-11, 04:08 PM

From the site http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_incorporealsubtype&alpha=

Note how it says positive and negative energy.
yes you can bolt of glory or CSW that spectre or wraith. even undeath to death it.
Also means holy swords N such hit without miss chance technically.

To bad doesn't work VS ethereal the same way.

Holy never says that it deals positive energy damage. It just deals damage against evil creatures.

Curmudgeon

2013-02-11, 04:23 PM

A DC 40 Tumble check lets you make a 10' step.
Well, almost. It's a 10' Tumble, which means you still can't do it if your speed has been reduced by armor or encumbrance. On the other hand, someone who has finished training with a Sparring Dummy of the Master (Arms and Equipment Guide, page 137), really can make a 10' step whenever they would be allowed to make a 5' step.

Morcleon

2013-02-11, 04:30 PM

Well, almost. It's a 10' Tumble, which means you still can't do it if your speed has been reduced by armor or encumbrance. On the other hand, someone who has finished training with a Sparring Dummy of the Master (Arms and Equipment Guide, page 137), really can make a 10' step whenever they would be allowed to make a 5' step.

Meh, if you have the modifiers to succeed a DC 40 consistently, you're gonna have the resources to bypass these restrictions. :smalltongue:

Also, SDotM requires Monk 1 or a DC 20 UMD check, but those are easily enough gotten.

Hiro Protagonest

2013-02-11, 04:31 PM

D&D grew out of a tabletop figures game named "Chainmail".

There are D&D players who don't know that? Other than the ones who are terrible at the game due to not understanding the rules?

Also, you didn't even use the right term. You said "tabletop figures game".

Venger

2013-02-11, 04:33 PM

Meh, if you have the modifiers to succeed a DC 40 consistently, you're gonna have the resources to bypass these restrictions. :smalltongue:

Also, SDotM requires Monk 1 or a DC 20 UMD check, but those are easily enough gotten.

it also requires you to train 8 hours a day uninterrupted for 1 month. if you're interrupted once, start over. if you're interrupted twice, you can't ever use one again.

Morcleon

2013-02-11, 04:39 PM

it also requires you to train 8 hours a day uninterrupted for 1 month. if you're interrupted once, start over. if you're interrupted twice, you can't ever use one again.

Yeah, but most of the time, you'll be doing this either before the game starts, or during character downtime... :smallwink:

Curmudgeon

2013-02-11, 04:41 PM

Also, SDotM requires Monk 1 or a DC 20 UMD check, but those are easily enough gotten.
The Sparring Dummy of the Master actually requires DC 21 to Emulate a Class Feature of a level 1 Monk. And it requires that at least once (or perhaps several times, depending on how many class features your DM thinks you need to emulate to "prove" you're a Monk to the SDotM) every hour, for 224 consecutive checks, without any failures; otherwise, you'll never complete the training.

Morcleon

2013-02-11, 04:44 PM

The Sparring Dummy of the Master actually requires DC 21 to Emulate a Class Feature of a level 1 Monk. And it requires that at least once (or perhaps several times, depending on how many class features your DM thinks you need to emulate to "prove" you're a Monk to the SDotM) every hour, for 224 consecutive checks, without any failures; otherwise, you'll never complete the training.

Get a masterwork tool, then pick up a +X item of UMD such that your total UMD modifier is 20 or higher. :smallwink:

It helps if you're Cha-focused or have UMD as a class skill.

Asteron

2013-02-11, 05:04 PM

On the Vin Diesel note, it's a bit more obscure that he taught Dame Judy Dench to play D&D, and now she DMs for her grandchildren.

This is the best piece of info in this thread...

Kelb_Panthera

2013-02-11, 05:09 PM

Illarion

2013-02-11, 05:24 PM

The chalk glows but stuff you write doesn't?

When you cast light on the chalk, one grain of chalk is randomly targeted. When you write with it, wherever that speck of chalk is glows. Now if you really want to screw with npc's at low levels grind up the chalk and blow it into the wind or a hallway or something.

Not making this up, it was in a dragon magazine. I can't remember what issue though.

haplessvictim

2013-02-11, 06:25 PM

I read (not sure where though) that Asmadeos wasn't the first devil to rule the nine hells, and that the devil before him was actually Satan.

Correct; this was described in the article "The Politics of Hell" in issue #28 of Dragon magazine. Satan had 666hp, which was (as far as I know) the only violation of the rule that no creature or god could have more than 400 hp.

Morcleon

2013-02-11, 06:31 PM

Correct; this was described in the article "The Politics of Hell" in issue #28 of Dragon magazine. Satan had 666hp, which was (as far as I know) the only violation of the rule that no creature or god could have more than 400 hp.

Holdover from an older edition? :smallconfused:

nedz

2013-02-11, 06:31 PM

D&D grew out of a tabletop figures game named "Chainmail".

In the Chainmail skirmish system, having no armour was AC 9.
This was changed to AC 10 in all future versions, prior to d20.

Ryu_Bonkosi

2013-02-11, 06:32 PM

Teamwork Benefits exist and some of them are actually useful.

(I've never seen them mentioned here on the boards a single time before.)

I try to use them as often as possible, and Missile Volley is used a lot in in the Commoner's Handbook. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=232822)

haplessvictim

2013-02-11, 06:34 PM

Holdover from an older edition? :smallconfused:

Mmmaaybe, but I doubt it. This was 1st edition AD&D, and I don't remember any mention of a literal Satan in plain-old-D&D. I guess I don't know all the trivia about my trivia!

Morcleon

2013-02-11, 06:35 PM

Mmmaaybe, but I doubt it. This was 1st edition AD&D, and I don't remember any mention of a literal Satan in plain-old-D&D. I guess I don't know all the trivia about my trivia!

Ah, that makes sense. Not in 3.5... :smalltongue:

LadyLexi

2013-02-11, 07:04 PM

You can use summon monster 4 to summon a Lantern Archon who can cast continual flame at will as a spell like ability. Easily providing cheap magical light, even to a whole city (over time).

The sharn race.

summon instrument ("You can’t summon an instrument too large to be held in two hands.") is deadly in the hands of a hulking hurler.

Slipperychicken

2013-02-11, 11:12 PM

summon instrument ("You can’t summon an instrument too large to be held in two hands.") is deadly in the hands of a hulking hurler.

How would you even throw a church organ?

Venger

2013-02-11, 11:49 PM

How would you even throw a church organ?

+1 flaming piano (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wVADKznOhY)

hulking hurlers have the "throw anything" ability. as long as they can pick it up as a light (or medium if they take overburdened heave) load, they can throw it.

Arbane

2013-02-11, 11:57 PM

In the Chainmail skirmish system, having no armour was AC 9.
This was changed to AC 10 in all future versions, prior to d20.

Not quite all - I seem to recall Basic D&D had AC 9 as the worst.

Slipperychicken

2013-02-12, 12:25 AM

+1 flaming piano (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wVADKznOhY)

My god. That made my day, and it's hardly 30 minutes into the day, too. I just get the feeling one of his ancestors was a PC. The sort who would catapult himself. While on fire. Into an enemy encampment. I even know what his epilogue was, too.

"My PCs descendants always shared their ancestor's love for fire, music and siege equipment, and sought to combine them wherever possible. Well into the 2000s, his bloodline was still firing flaming pianos out of trebuchets"

ksbsnowowl

2013-02-12, 01:00 AM

You can use summon monster 4 to summon a Lantern Archon who can cast continual flame at will as a spell like ability. Easily providing cheap magical light, even to a whole city (over time).

Wrong.

When the spell that summoned a creature ends and the creature disappears, all the spells it has cast expire.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#summoning
Second paragraph.

TuggyNE

2013-02-12, 01:44 AM

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#summoning
Second paragraph.

While I tend to agree that that includes SLAs, there is some dispute over that.

The Viscount

2013-02-12, 01:52 AM

(Various Spells with duration 1 year or longer)

:smallsigh: That's what I get for trying to show off. The spell was stone heart, points to Venger.

At least my monster one hasn't been disproved. There is one creature other than a bearded devil that has "beard" as a natural attack. Points again to anybody who knows.

Judy Dench seems like she would be a great DM.

Morcleon

2013-02-12, 01:56 AM

:smallsigh: That's what I get for trying to show off. The spell was stone heart, points to Venger.

At least my monster one hasn't been disproved. There is one creature other than a bearded devil that has "beard" as a natural attack. Points again to anybody who knows.

Eh, that's the Playground for you. :smalltongue:

Judy Dench seems like she would bed a great DM.

...this... is a typo, right...? :smallconfused::smalleek:

Kuulvheysoon

2013-02-12, 02:18 AM

At least my monster one hasn't been disproved. There is one creature other than a bearded devil that has "beard" as a natural attack. Points again to anybody who knows.

Hmmm... Doesn't the Durzagon (spelling?) (MM2) have a beard attack? It's that modified duergar half-fiend.

Forrestfire

2013-02-12, 02:23 AM

Hmmm... Doesn't the Durzagon (spelling?) (MM2) have a beard attack? It's that modified duergar half-fiend.

It's also poisonous, if I remember correctly.

Darius Kane

2013-02-12, 05:18 AM

You can't "Win" D&D (and it's not even the point of the game).

Norin

2013-02-12, 05:58 AM

You can't "Win" D&D (and it's not even the point of the game).

Unless you play a wizard.

..sorry just had to. :smallbiggrin:

Darius Kane

2013-02-12, 06:10 AM

No, not even then.

Eldariel

2013-02-12, 06:13 AM

I win D&D every time I play.'cause I have fun and having fun while playing = win

LadyLexi

2013-02-12, 06:28 AM

Wrong.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#summoning
Second paragraph.

Quite right. Also, anyone know where that tid-bit about a dc 40 tumble letting you move 10' is? Maybe i'll give scout a try sometime in the future.

Kelb_Panthera

2013-02-12, 06:54 AM

Quite right. Also, anyone know where that tid-bit about a dc 40 tumble letting you move 10' is? Maybe i'll give scout a try sometime in the future.

It's in oriental adventures.

only1doug

2013-02-12, 07:10 AM

The Sparring Dummy of the Master actually requires DC 21 to Emulate a Class Feature of a level 1 Monk. And it requires that at least once (or perhaps several times, depending on how many class features your DM thinks you need to emulate to "prove" you're a Monk to the SDotM) every hour, for 224 consecutive checks, without any failures; otherwise, you'll never complete the training.

So warlock L6 or so, unless they dumped Cha (then they'll be delayed a few levels) or didn't take UMD for some reason. (Insanity perhaps)

In the Chainmail skirmish system, having no armour was AC 9.
This was changed to AC 10 in all future versions, prior to d20.

The AC system of D&D was based on a naval combat game, with the lower classes of ships being the hardest to hit and higher classes being the easiest.

XmonkTad

2013-02-12, 03:22 PM

Neanderthals are not the only illiterate race. (DR# 324 p.87) Grippli can't read or write.

Barbarians are not the only illiterate class (even though it says that it the PHB). Savage Bards (UA) and Anagakoks (DR# 344 p.104) can't read either.

terminusdrop321

2013-02-12, 03:33 PM

Totemists are also illiterate

Psyren

2013-02-12, 04:34 PM

Barbarians are not the only illiterate class (even though it says that it the PHB).

The PHB also says there are 11 base classes in D&D. The PHB is only an authority about the state of the game at the time it was written.

RandomLunatic

2013-02-12, 05:02 PM

Strength checks made to break down doors (and only doors) use the same size modifiers as trip, grapple, overrun, and the like.

Really. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm#breakingItems)

Pandoras Folly

2013-02-12, 05:08 PM

Yes durzagons have poisonous beard attack.

Played a durzagon cleric once, I actually used the.beard attack on an interrogator and a colossal creature that picked me up.

Morph Bark

2013-02-12, 05:12 PM

There is a forge that allows a smith to create weapons with infinite hardness. The only way to destroy these is with sonic or acid damage or with Mountain Hammer.

Morcleon

2013-02-12, 05:16 PM

There is a forge that allows a smith to create weapons with infinite hardness. The only way to destroy these is with sonic or acid damage or with Mountain Hammer.

Acid doesn't work; it still is affected by hardness. Also, force damage works.

Big Fau

2013-02-12, 05:17 PM

Totemists are also illiterate

It amuses me that each of the Illiterate classes can take Shape Soulmeld (Mage's Spectacles) and Open Lesser Chakra to be able to read magical writing, while still being illiterate and thus unable to read it.

Norin

2013-02-12, 05:21 PM

i bet they can lock a drawer and put the key inside before it closes too.

...and divide by 0. ;)

The Viscount

2013-02-12, 09:37 PM

...this... is a typo, right...? :smallconfused::smalleek:

aaaaand that's what I get for posting so late. That was indeed a typo, no offense to Judy Dench.

Hmmm... Doesn't the Durzagon (spelling?) (MM2) have a beard attack? It's that modified duergar half-fiend.

It's also poisonous, if I remember correctly.

Indeed. Points to you, Kuulvheysoon. I love the idea of poison delivered by beard. Also, they didn't make any note about female Durzagon. I suppose what Aragorn said was true; female dwarves (or at least female duergar) do have beards.

Certified

2013-02-12, 11:00 PM

A Baron's additional income is based on taxes giving gold per citizen per game year.

The Fighting Man had to become a Lord before they could be a Baron.

ksbsnowowl

2013-02-12, 11:37 PM

Acid doesn't work; it still is affected by hardness. Also, force damage works.

Nice try.

Energy Attacks
Acid and sonic attacks deal damage to most objects just as they do to creatures; roll damage and apply it normally after a successful hit. Electricity and fire attacks deal half damage to most objects; divide the damage dealt by 2 before applying the hardness. Cold attacks deal one-quarter damage to most objects; divide the damage dealt by 4 before applying the hardness.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm#energyAttacks

Obscure D&D fact: lots of gamers don't know what they are talking about.

tyckspoon

2013-02-12, 11:41 PM

Nice try.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm#energyAttacks

Obscure D&D fact: lots of gamers don't know what they are talking about.

"Normally" for an object means subtracting Hardness from the damage done. Contrast with the lines for Electricity/Fire/Cold, where the damage rolled is reduced even before Hardness is applied. Sonic and Acid do not bypass Hardness unless the specific source of them says it does (like the Sonic versions of the psionic Energy Whatsit powers do)- their benefit is that they get unreduced damage just like attempting to sunder something with a weapon does. Still has to deal with Hardness.

Curmudgeon

2013-02-12, 11:55 PM

Nice try.
Acid and sonic attacks deal damage to most objects just as they do to creatures; roll damage and apply it normally after a successful hit.
Animated Objects (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/animatedObject.htm) are creatures with hardness, and the way acid and sonic attacks normally work against creatures is that the hardness is subtracted from the damage.

Obscure D&D fact: lots of gamers don't know what they are talking about. Thanks for providing an example. :smallwink:

ksbsnowowl

2013-02-13, 12:22 AM

Thanks for providing an example. :smallwink:And you learn something new every day, sometimes making an @$$ out of yourself in the process...:smalleek:

Ryulin18

2013-02-13, 12:29 AM

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Pazuzu You can get demonic aid at first level. Pazazu, pazazu, pazazu.

Go to "out of combat" here.

On myphone, sorry for errors.

Kuulvheysoon

2013-02-13, 12:33 AM

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Pazuzu You can get demonic aid at first level. Pazazu, pazazu, pazazu.

Go to "out of combat" here.

On myphone, sorry for errors.

That's.... really commonly known to anybody who's ever heard of Pun-Pun.

Illumians (RoD) can freely multiclass Paladins and Monks without the need for a feat, special ability or DM fiat. And they're always literate, which I believe overrides the general Illiteracy class feature of certain classes.

VGLordR2

2013-02-13, 12:36 AM

Morph Bark

2013-02-13, 03:54 AM

Animated Objects (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/animatedObject.htm) are creatures with hardness, and the way acid and sonic attacks normally work against creatures is that the hardness is subtracted from the damage.

It doesn't say so anywhere in the creature's mechanics though. Where are you getting that from?

While the "apply it normally" can be interpreted to include applying hardness, due to its mention right after that, but on the other hand creatures normally don't have hardness, so if sonic and acid would deal damage to objects just like they do to creatures, logically that'd mean they'd ignore the hardness. Saying "objects' hardness applies to acid and sonic damage because animated objects' hardness applies to acid and sonic damage because objects' hardness applies to acid and sonic damage" is circular. (This isn't really what you said, but let's get it out of the way before it really needs to be said.)

I'm not saying that it does ignore hardness, as the wording is ambiguous, so if you've got a different example that uses better wording I'd be full well accepting of it. For now, it's just another case of ambiguous wording. Which occurs in every DnD book, and that probably isn't really obscure knowledge. :smalltongue:

Mr Adventurer

2013-02-13, 04:11 AM

Being a skill check, this is completely irrelevant once your total UMD modifier hits +20. This should be readily doable by the time the SDotM becomes affordable.

UMD has it's own special failure rules for rolling a 1.

only1doug

2013-02-13, 04:12 AM

If you do the math for tthe Geyser setting for the Decanter of Endless Water (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#decanterofEndlessWater), the water would have to be traveling at less than a mile an hour in order to fill the given volume with the given output rate.

that depends on the neck size of your flask:

The water is flowing at 25 gallons / minute to form a 12" wide (but no defined depth) stream that becomes 20' long.

thats 1500 gallons / hour being emitted from a flask...

A Flask is defined as containing 1 pint of liquid, so we can imagine that the neck of the flask is of no greater than 2" diameter...

as in DnD Pi = 4 we can say that a 2" diameter flask has a 4" area, a US Liquid gallon is defined as 231 cubic inches...

so we have 346500 cubic inches / hour emitting from a 4" square inch area, giving us 86625 inches / hour or 1.37 miles / hour.

if the neck diameter was just 1" then the speed would double to 2.73 miles / hour.

if we use R/L values of Pi then we would see a higher speed flow from each of these examples to roughly 1.74 miles / hour for a flask with a 2" diameter neck or 3.48 miles / hour for a flask with a 1" diameter neck.

Just hanging here, killin' Catgirls

UMD has it's own special failure rules for rolling a 1.

Yes, Specifically
Try Again
if you ever roll a natural 1 while attempting to activate an item and you fail, then you can’t try to activate that item again for 24 hours. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/useMagicDevice.htm)

Jon_Dahl

2013-02-13, 04:18 AM

I have a couple of "e-books" from the Living Greyhawk which have never been available to general public. I (want to) believe that actually extremely few people possess these books. I'm very proud to have them and know their obscure secrets.

I have told my players that they can only discover the secrets of these source materials in-game, never off-game. It's great.

JaronK

2013-02-13, 04:53 AM

The PHB also says there are 11 base classes in D&D. The PHB is only an authority about the state of the game at the time it was written.

And the PHB is correct in this... there really are only 11 base classes in D&D. However, there's another name for the other classes you're thinking of... Standard Classes. The PHB and DMG both say there's only 11 base classes, and from what I've found all other books either don't tell you what the new starting classes are called, or, like PHB II and Dungeonscape, refer to the new classes (as well as the original 11) as standard classes.

So even though everyone uses the term wrong, base classes are the PHB 11, and standard classes are what everyone else means when they say base class.

A Rogue is a Base Class and a Standard Class, but a Hexblade is only a Standard Class.

JaronK

sonofzeal

2013-02-13, 05:18 AM

Sgt. Cookie

2013-02-13, 08:23 AM

Sword and Fist?

sonofzeal

2013-02-13, 08:50 AM

Sword and Fist?

Strike one!

Xaotiq1

2013-02-13, 08:52 AM

War of the Lance. I love that knack.

sonofzeal

2013-02-13, 08:55 AM

War of the Lance. I love that knack.
Nailed it.

Now I just need to find a DM who'll let me buy Items of Legend at list price....... :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

Curmudgeon

2013-02-13, 09:23 AM

Time for another exciting round of Name That Sourcebook(tm)

It is possible for certain characters (of any race) to make Masterwork weapons with a +5 bonus on attack rolls. They cost 1500 over the base price of the weapon.... and are thus commonly available in any decent-sized community.
There's a bit of a problem with that.

What is the most obscure thing you know about d&d?
The Dragonlance Campaign Setting was published by Wizards of the Coast and is usable with D&D, but later Dragonlance books are non-D&D d20 material. Margaret Weis Productions has a license from WotC that allows them to say War of the Lance is a "d20 System® game accessory" and "utilizes mechanics developed for the new Dungeons & Dragons® game", but they're not allowed to say it's D&D.

afroakuma

2013-02-13, 09:50 AM

It doesn't say so anywhere in the creature's mechanics though. Where are you getting that from?

Er... yes it does. It's not listed in the statblock for some dingdong reason, but if you scroll down to the actual listing of and explanation of abilities, it's right here:

Hardness (Ex)

An animated object has the same hardness it had before it was animated.

Morph Bark

2013-02-13, 10:05 AM

Er... yes it does. It's not listed in the statblock for some dingdong reason, but if you scroll down to the actual listing of and explanation of abilities, it's right here:

I saw that, which is why I said that little bit about the circular argument. It doesn't say in the statblock for Animated Objects that hardness applies against acid and sonic damage, and the general info on damaging objects has faulty wording. That's why I asked if there were any other sources that could be cited that don't have faulty wording.

HunterOfJello

2013-02-13, 10:13 AM

I have a couple of "e-books" from the Living Greyhawk which have never been available to general public. I (want to) that actually extremely few people possess these books. I'm very proud to have them and know their obscure secrets.

I have told my players that they can only discover the secrets of these source materials in-game, never off-game. It's great.

D&D 3.5 books that I've never heard of.... ?
WHAT ARE THEIR NAMES?!

DaTedinator

2013-02-13, 11:11 AM

I saw that, which is why I said that little bit about the circular argument. It doesn't say in the statblock for Animated Objects that hardness applies against acid and sonic damage, and the general info on damaging objects has faulty wording. That's why I asked if there were any other sources that could be cited that don't have faulty wording.

There was a thread about this a while back that eventually determined that the Rules Compendium straightened things out: Acid and Sonic damage do not ignore hardness.

LINK (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8733913#post8733913).

Starbuck_II

2013-02-13, 11:13 AM

There was a thread about this a while back that eventually determined that the Rules Compendium straightened things out: Acid and Sonic damage do not ignore hardness.

LINK (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8733913#post8733913).

Well, Psionic Sonic does. That may be what was confusing people.

Ithandor

2013-02-13, 11:19 AM

A nice one that came up in a thread a good while ago - it is possible to Tumble in heavy armor.

From the SRD:

You can’t use this skill if your speed has been reduced by armor, excess equipment, or loot.

Bolded for emphasis. A Tooth of Savnok (ToM) removes the speed penalty for armor. More debatable, Dwarves do not have their speed reduced by armor either.

Morph Bark

2013-02-13, 11:28 AM

On the subject of hardness-ignoring damage, where does it say that force damage ignores it, or is this just something that a lot of force damage sources happen to share (other than magic missile)?

Bolded for emphasis. A Tooth of Savnok (ToM) removes the speed penalty for armor. More debatable, Dwarves do not have their speed reduced by armor either.

I've known about that for a little while, but I always remembered it as "medium or heavier armor = no Tumbling". That dwarves can still do it is hilariously great. :smallbiggrin:

Curmudgeon

2013-02-13, 11:46 AM

On the subject of hardness-ignoring damage, where does it say that force damage ignores it, or is this just something that a lot of force damage sources happen to share (other than magic missile)?
That's it, really. A lot of it's from people confusing the characteristics of the Force weapon property (Magic Item Compendium, page 35) with other force effects. Other than that one, most force effects are from spells, which bypass DR for another reason. There's no general rule about force effects bypassing DR.

sonofzeal

2013-02-14, 12:47 AM

There's a bit of a problem with that.

The Dragonlance Campaign Setting was published by Wizards of the Coast and is usable with D&D, but later Dragonlance books are non-D&D d20 material. Margaret Weis Productions has a license from WotC that allows them to say War of the Lance is a "d20 System® game accessory" and "utilizes mechanics developed for the new Dungeons & Dragons® game", but they're not allowed to say it's D&D.
It's got a stamp on it saying "Official Wizards of the Coast". That's good enough for me.

Curmudgeon

2013-02-14, 01:33 AM

It's got a stamp on it saying "Official Wizards of the Coast". That's good enough for me.
The seal actually says "Official Wizards of the Coast Licensed Product", and you'll find the identical seal on "Monopoly Duel Masters" and "Clone Strike" (Star Wars miniatures game); that doesn't make any of them D&D.

Flickerdart

2013-02-14, 01:37 AM

I've known about that for a little while, but I always remembered it as "medium or heavier armor = no Tumbling". That dwarves can still do it is hilariously great. :smallbiggrin:
Dwarves are basically round anyway; push them and they will roll, tumble or no tumble.

Hydro Globus

2013-02-14, 06:19 AM

Here's one. You remember the Kuo-Toa in MM1? Pathetic frog creatures? CR 2, with a unique racial "Pincer Staff" weapon?

....they're prone to madness. Like, "28 Days Later" Rage style madness. And every Kuo-Toa present when one goes mad has a 10% chance of going mad themselves. If you have a crowd of 100 Kuo-Toa and one breaks, ten more will go mad. And of the remaining 89, about 58 will go mad from witnessing those ten go over the edge. At that point, there's roughly a 0.003% chance you'll be left with any Kuo-Toa who aren't homicidally insane. All in the first round.

So... uh.... don't hang out near large groups of Kuo-Toa. Just sayin'.

So, my inner geek compels me to calculate the critical mass of Kuo-Toas (Kuo-Toae?), and I'm getting 12. I mean, with 12 KTs, more than half are expected to be in rage if any one enrages (53.24% which is still about 6 of the 12), which stands to reason; with 10 KTs, one can readily imagine always one enraging from the sight of another enrage until the sane KTs' number gets so low as to be statistically more probable that one will not enrage (which is half) and 10 is barely less then 12.

With a different meaning of critical mass (likely all of them enrage when one does), you need 35 of the creatures, where the expected ratio of sane Kuo-Toas are only 2.685% and one Kuo-Toa represents more, about 2.857% of the population.

Now this is obscure knowledge.

EDIT: changed commas to periods in decimals, because the English language does that. Sorry.

juicycaboose

2013-02-14, 07:16 AM

A nice one that came up in a thread a good while ago - it is possible to Tumble in heavy armor.

From the SRD:

Bolded for emphasis. A Tooth of Savnok (ToM) removes the speed penalty for armor. More debatable, Dwarves do not have their speed reduced by armor either.

Another one that enables it is the Knight's Armor Mastery class feature which also allows you to ignore the speed penalty for armor.

The knight in our game atm has swapped ride out for tumble and is starting to take a few ranks in tumble, just in case his armor isn't enough~

sonofzeal

2013-02-14, 07:19 AM

So, my inner geek compels me to calculate the critical mass of Kuo-Toas (Kuo-Toae?), and I'm getting... way larger rounding errors then I should. I'll report back in probably a few hours, when that is taken care of.
Well, if it helps...

With 100 Kuo-Toa, the chance you'll have survivors is down at 0.4%. At 50 Kuo-Toa it's a pretty even 25% chance. You're closest to a 50:50 chance at 38 Kuo-Toa. And a population of 70 gets you right down to a 5% chance.

Being a simulation designer means never having to ask "what'r the odds of that". :smallbiggrin:

Hydro Globus

2013-02-14, 07:55 AM

Well, if it helps...

With 100 Kuo-Toa, the chance you'll have survivors is down at 0.4%. At 50 Kuo-Toa it's a pretty even 25% chance. You're closest to a 50:50 chance at 38 Kuo-Toa. And a population of 70 gets you right down to a 5% chance.

Being a simulation designer means never having to ask "what'r the odds of that". :smallbiggrin:

Where do you get your numbers? I've edited my post, but with 100 of them, I'm getting 0.0026% sane KTs out of 100, and a somewhat differing number for likely (your 50:50) all enraged.

sonofzeal

2013-02-14, 08:10 AM

Where do you get your numbers? I've edited my post, but with 100 of them, I'm getting 0.0026% sane KTs out of 100, and a somewhat differing number for likely (your 50:50) all enraged.
Simulation. Currently running 10,000 trials. There WAS a slight bug though, recomputing now.....

100 KT = 0.27% chance of survivors
69 KT = 5.2% chance of survivors
50 KT = 25.6% chance of survivors
40 KT = 48.4% chance of survivors, which is the closest to 50%

....unless there's another bug, but I don't think so. Tracing it gives rational behavior on individual runs, which is usually a strong indication.

Code (in Turning, hashed together in 5 minutes so apologies for no comments... and the board wipes formatting too *le sigh*)

var n, count, k, temp, temp2, crazed, cz2, population: int

population := 39
count := 0

for e:1..10000
n := population
crazed := 1

for i:1..20
cz2 := crazed
crazed := 0
for q:1..cz2
temp2 := n
for w:1..temp2
randint(temp,1,10)
if temp = 1 then
crazed := crazed + 1
n := n - 1
end if
end for
end for
exit when n=0
end for

if n=0 then
count := count + 1
end if
end for

put "WITH A POPULATION OF ", population+1
put count/100, "% total collapse"
put (10000-count)/100, "% chance of survivors"

Hydro Globus

2013-02-14, 10:02 AM

I think your code allows for crazed KTs to enrage again (and count those too). And don't worry, I don't bother with tab formatting unless there is a for or if that doesn't end on the same screen.

Still, you might be right, I work only with chance of enrage for any one member, and drag an excel column down ~20 rows (which represent the different iterations). Out of that 20, only the first 3-6 rows tend to be different, the rest is the same (within 8 decimal places), it converges so fast.

Agent 451

2013-02-14, 12:41 PM

There is a forge that allows a smith to create weapons with infinite hardness.

Care to share more?

rockdeworld

2013-02-14, 12:56 PM

Planar Binding doesn't work across planes.

Now probably a bunch of people know it because of the Dysfunctional rules thread, but there you go.

herrhauptmann

2013-02-14, 01:20 PM

It's not obscure, so much as ignored or misunderstood but:
Magic weapons and armor have to be masterwork. And before you can put special properties on them like Keen or Fortification, they have to have a basic +1 or better. I really thought that was obvious, but being in the pbp forum, I've seen a lot of non-masterwork weapons that are holy and keen, without having the +1.

Also
Scrubbed
I'm going to end up going into a rant trying to explain that I'm not the moron with this.
And it's a bad rant.

rgrekejin

2013-02-14, 01:40 PM

The Fiendish Codex 1 tells us that the 471st layer of the Abyss, Androlynne, contains an entire generation unaging of Eladrin children (the fact that this theoretically should have ended the race is never addressed). They are guarded by armies of grown Eladrin, as well as foo creatures, despite the fact that the foo creature template was never officially updated to third edition. In fact, a foo lion guarding a group of Eladrin children is one of few the illustrations in the book for this layer.

...yes, this actually did end up complicating a campaign I ran once, why do you ask?

Kelb_Panthera

2013-02-14, 01:44 PM

The Fiendish Codex 1 tells us that the 471st layer of the Abyss, Androlynne, contains an entire generation of Eladrin children (the fact that this theoretically should have ended the race is never addressed). They are guarded by armies of grown Eladrin, as well as fu creatures, despite the fact that the fu creature template that was never officially updated to third edition. In fact, a fu lion guarding a group of Eladrin children is one of few the illustrations in the book for this layer.

...yes, this actually did end up complicating a campaign I ran once, why do you ask?

The underlined doesn't need to be addressed. That generation was replaced by their parents going through the same process that produced them in the first place. Parents can have more than one child after all.

OA has fu creatures as creatures that simply have the celestial creature template and a bit of asian fluff.

Divayth Fyr

2013-02-14, 01:48 PM

The underlined doesn't need to be addressed. That generation was replaced by their parents going through the same process that produced them in the first place. Parents can have more than one child after all.
But unless a looot of time has passed between the births, the children are usually considered a part of the same generation.

rgrekejin

2013-02-14, 01:51 PM

The underlined doesn't need to be addressed. That generation was replaced by their parents going through the same process that produced them in the first place. Parents can have more than one child after all.

Yes, it does need to be addressed. Because the children those parents have are part of the same generation as the children that were spirited away. Your siblings are part of the same generation as you, no matter how much time has passed between your births, assuming we're using the term "generation" in the biological sense and not the sociological sense.

...although I am somewhat unclear about whether the "entire generation" thing allows the demons to take new children born to the same generation after the initial enforcement of the deal. But that doesn't make the new children any less part of the same generation. But, then again, that's what I mean when I say this needs to be addressed.

EDIT: Also, were in the 3.0 OA does it talk about foo creatures? I can't seem to find them in my copy.

Curmudgeon

2013-02-14, 01:53 PM

The Serrated weapon property doesn't specify melee weapons only, just 'any weapon.'
Serrated is from Dragon # 358 on page 43.

It can be added to a bow, and somehow makes the arrows serrated.
You seem to be confused here. Serrated lacks any sort of statement like the following:

Bows, crossbows, and slings so crafted bestow the chaotic power upon their ammunition.

Bows, crossbows, and slings so crafted bestow the lawful power upon their ammunition.

Bows, crossbows, and slings so crafted bestow the bane quality upon their ammunition.
I could add dozens more examples, but I'm sure you get the idea. The only properties which categorically transfer from projectile weapon to ammunition are numerical enhancements; all other weapon properties only transfer when that's explicitly called out (as above).

only1doug

2013-02-14, 03:36 PM

The Serrated weapon property doesn't specify melee weapons only, just 'any weapon.'
It can be added to a bow, and somehow makes the arrows serrated.
I can understand what the writer was thinking of, but there was some bad editing.

Serrated is from Dragon # 358 on page 43.

You seem to be confused here. Serrated lacks any sort of statement like the following:

I could add dozens more examples, but I'm sure you get the idea. The only properties which categorically transfer from projectile weapon to ammunition are numerical enhancements; all other weapon properties only transfer when that's explicitly called out (as above).

I don't have that dragon mag, so I'm curious, can you add serrated to a sap and if so will it still deal non-lethal damage?

Curmudgeon

2013-02-14, 04:00 PM

I don't have that dragon mag, so I'm curious, can you add serrated to a sap and if so will it still deal non-lethal damage?
No, you can't add it to a sap.
Restriction: May only be applied to piercing or slashing weapons.

herrhauptmann

2013-02-14, 04:46 PM

Edit:
Sorry, I'm going to scrub my earlier post.
It's just going to make me go off on a rant trying to explain part of it.

Venger

2013-02-14, 05:06 PM

EDIT: Also, were in the 3.0 OA does it talk about fu creatures? I can't seem to find them in my copy.

page 144. it describes monsters from the MM1 and tells you how to refluff them to be asian and gives them different names.

rgrekejin

2013-02-14, 05:22 PM

page 144. it describes monsters from the MM1 and tells you how to refluff them to be asian and gives them different names.

Huh. Why so it is. I wonder why I couldn't find that when trying to google the template. *shrugs*

Venger

2013-02-14, 05:35 PM

Huh. Why so it is. I wonder why I couldn't find that when trying to google the template. *shrugs*

boolean search. it's "foo creature" not "fu creature"

rgrekejin

2013-02-14, 05:41 PM

boolean search. it's "foo creature" not "fu creature"

Yeah, when I was looking at the actual books, which I was at the time, I got the spelling right. I only misspelled it here because I was doing so from memory. A google search for "D&D 3.0 foo creatures" (search made with no quotes) gives me nothing about OA. *shrug* Ah well.

The Viscount

2013-02-15, 02:51 AM

Fog Giant from Monsters of Faerun bears a striking resemblance to The Kurgan.

Doubt this is all that obscure, but might as well. Crit-stacking is still possible in 3.5, though I know of only one method.

TypoNinja

2013-02-15, 03:44 AM

Actually, this leads to an additional obscure fact: Doresain is statted out in BoVD. As a CR 10. As such, he is almost certainly the weakest being capable of granting divine spells.

Imhotep is a 20th level expert, lacking UMD, who took feats to TWF with his quarter staff. Bet he could give Doresain a run for that title.

Fun fact, nowhere does it say you ever need to sleep. Even spellcasters only need "rest" which doesn't have to be sleep.

It came up in a game, we were trying to get a retaining wall up before a flood hit and I wanted to know the downside of trying to work through the night. We couldn't find one.

If you do the math for tthe Geyser setting for the Decanter of Endless Water (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#decanterofEndlessWater), the water would have to be traveling at less than a mile an hour in order to fill the given volume with the given output rate.

Did the math on this myself a while back, its the aperture size that kills it. While its got a flow rate comparable to a firehose, its nozzle diameter is so much wider than a firehose that the end amount of pressure is anemic.

Aharon

2013-02-15, 04:26 AM

Imhotep is a 20th level expert, lacking UMD, who took feats to TWF with his quarter staff. Bet he could give Doresain a run for that title.

Hmpf. I should take a title like "Defender of Imhotep" or something. He has Prismatic Sphere as an SLA at will, so he should be encased by 8 of them at all times, if played moderately optimized. If one goes into high op/TO, he also has True Creation as an SLA at will, so he would have infinite wealth in this scenario.

Pickford

2013-02-15, 12:07 PM

Planar Binding doesn't work across planes.

Now probably a bunch of people know it because of the Dysfunctional rules thread, but there you go.

Of course it does.

Story

2013-02-15, 12:35 PM

By RAW it doesn't. Creatures lose their Extraplanar subtype when on their home plane.

Cog

2013-02-15, 12:44 PM

By RAW it doesn't. Creatures lose their Extraplanar subtype when on their home plane.
Looking at the D20SRD version, I don't see any requirement for the targetted creature to have the extradimensional subtype.

Kelb_Panthera

2013-02-15, 12:47 PM

Yes, it does need to be addressed. Because the children those parents have are part of the same generation as the children that were spirited away. Your siblings are part of the same generation as you, no matter how much time has passed between your births, assuming we're using the term "generation" in the biological sense and not the sociological sense.

...although I am somewhat unclear about whether the "entire generation" thing allows the demons to take new children born to the same generation after the initial enforcement of the deal. But that doesn't make the new children any less part of the same generation. But, then again, that's what I mean when I say this needs to be addressed.

That presupposes that they meant generation in the biological rather than the sociological sense. There's no reason to make that assumption.

It also assumes that there's some clause that makes it so that the biological generation is inclusive to members of that generation that were not yet born at the time of the agreement, in perpetuity, which is also baseless.

Most damning is the fact that its an agreement between chaotic outsiders. Upon discovering that they'd been tricked there's nothing at all to stop the eladrins from simply breaking the agreement. I, personally, think this last point is in far greater need of expansion than the matter of where new eladrins come from.

Kelb_Panthera

2013-02-15, 12:51 PM

Of course it does.

By RAW it doesn't. Creatures lose their Extraplanar subtype when on their home plane.

I suspect rokedeworld was referring to the fact that targetted spells must have line of effect to their target. The various calling spells never have LoE to their target. The target is also pretty much never inside the listed range.

Gate does specify that the target must be extraplanar.

dspeyer

2013-02-15, 01:06 PM

There is no 3.5 MM that includes brownies or leprechauns.

There is a web article with stats for brownies (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/al/20041006a) though. They make a pretty good playable race.

rgrekejin

2013-02-15, 02:34 PM

It also assumes that there's some clause that makes it so that the biological generation is inclusive to members of that generation that were not yet born at the time of the agreement, in perpetuity, which is also baseless.

There wouldn't need to be an additional clause. It's inherent to the biological definition of "generation" that all children born in perpetuity to the same parental generation are members of the same generation. So a bargain for an "entire generation" would, by default, include those as well. A special clause would be needed to exclude those born in perpetuity, not include them. It would have to be a bargain only for "all the currently living members of a generation of eladrin".

I'm inclined to think that the biological sense of the term generation would have to be what was used due to the fact that what constitutes a particular sociological generation is subject to individual interpretation, whereas the biological interpretation is not. Then again, we are dealing with chaotic outsiders, but even chaotic outsiders are capable of using exact terms in a bargain.

Story

2013-02-15, 02:39 PM

I suspect rokedeworld was referring to the fact that targetted spells must have line of effect to their target. The various calling spells never have LoE to their target. The target is also pretty much never inside the listed range.

Gate does specify that the target must be extraplanar.

Oops, I got mixed up. Sorry.

Talakeal

2013-02-15, 03:24 PM

Do eladrin even reproduce like living cresatures? They are afterall outsiders, most of which can reproduce from petitioners or the essence of the plane instead of / in addition to normal means.

Story

2013-02-15, 04:34 PM

rgrekejin

2013-02-15, 04:46 PM

Except that biological generation is open to interpretation as well. And things get even more complicated when you get into things like inter-generational breeding.

Inter-generational breeding is the only real escape hatch I can see here for the eladrin. Those give you backcross hybrids, whereas two parents simply having more children would belong to the same F1 generation as the children who had been spirited away.

Kelb_Panthera

2013-02-15, 04:51 PM

There wouldn't need to be an additional clause. It's inherent to the biological definition of "generation" that all children born in perpetuity to the same parental generation are members of the same generation. So a bargain for an "entire generation" would, by default, include those as well. A special clause would be needed to exclude those born in perpetuity, not include them. It would have to be a bargain only for "all the currently living members of a generation of eladrin".

I'm inclined to think that the biological sense of the term generation would have to be what was used due to the fact that what constitutes a particular sociological generation is subject to individual interpretation, whereas the biological interpretation is not. Then again, we are dealing with chaotic outsiders, but even chaotic outsiders are capable of using exact terms in a bargain.

Actually, come to think of it, they almost certainly had to mean the sociological generation. A biological generation would have to be predicated on the notion that all eladrin came from a biological progenitor and that their reproduction was rather precisely cyclical for the entire generation to be composed of eladrin children at the time of the contract.

Remember that part of the contract stopped them from growing up.

Logically, it can't have meant a biological generation because there's simply no explaining how an entire race of chaotic immortals that reproduce in a human-like fashion all had children at almost precisely the same rate from the beginning of time to the present, even if they -did- have a single progenitor; an idea which I've never read anything to so much as suggest.

TypoNinja

2013-02-15, 05:40 PM

Hmpf. I should take a title like "Defender of Imhotep" or something. He has Prismatic Sphere as an SLA at will, so he should be encased by 8 of them at all times, if played moderately optimized. If one goes into high op/TO, he also has True Creation as an SLA at will, so he would have infinite wealth in this scenario.

I didn't say he was Terrible, anything with Divine Ranks and Divine Salient Abilities is going to be quite strong compared to any (non-TO) PC's. He's still (literally) Godly, its just that he's not the only God around. Saying he's weak for a God is still acknowledging he's a God after all. Even a weak Deity is going to be much stronger than most things that are not Deities.

But his Prismatic Sphere SLA isn't very impressive on the Divine scale. Just about any greater deity can simply walk through it confident he'll make all the saves and/or be immune to individual effects.

Also infinite wealth inst a huge achievement either, as there are multiple ways for PC's to acquire it as well, and while Imhotep is limited to non-magical material, there are deities of creation/crafting who can produce magical gear with the snap of their fingers.

So yes, hes a God, compared to the entirety of reality he's quite strong. Compared to other God's. He's a lot less impressive. And that was the comparison, beings who grant divine spells.

Urpriest

2013-02-15, 05:42 PM

I didn't say he was Terrible, anything with Divine Ranks and Divine Salient Abilities is going to be quite strong compared to any (non-TO) PC's. He's still (literally) Godly, its just that he's not the only God around. Saying he's weak for a God is still acknowledging he's a God after all. Even a weak Deity is going to be much stronger than most things that are not Deities.

But his Prismatic Sphere SLA isn't very impressive on the Divine scale. Just about any greater deity can simply walk through it confident he'll make all the saves and/or be immune to individual effects.

Also infinite wealth inst a huge achievement either, as there are multiple ways for PC's to acquire it as well, and while Imhotep is limited to non-magical material, there are deities of creation/crafting who can produce magical gear with the snap of their fingers.

So yes, hes a God, compared to the entirety of reality he's quite strong. Compared to other God's. He's a lot less impressive. And that was the comparison, beings who grant divine spells.

Point is, Doresain doesn't even have that. Doresain is a CR 10 Ghoul-thingy with no Salient Divine Abilities or even Divine Rank whatsoever. And yet, he grants spells.

123456789blaaa

2013-02-15, 06:35 PM

Point is, Doresain doesn't even have that. Doresain is a CR 10 Ghoul-thingy with no Salient Divine Abilities or even Divine Rank whatsoever. And yet, he grants spells.

The SRD says:

Each deity has a divine rank

So doesn't this mean that when Doresain was promoted to a demigod in Libris Mortis that he should have gained a divine rank of 1-5? The SRD also says:

Every deity of rank 1 or higher has at least one additional power, called a salient divine ability, per divine rank (see Salient Divine Abilities).

So doesn't this mean he should get Salient Divine Abilities as well?

Pickford

2013-02-15, 07:33 PM

By RAW it doesn't. Creatures lose their Extraplanar subtype when on their home plane.

Planar binding targets elementals or outsiders, not an extraplanar creatures.

Extraplanar may be a relativistic term (i.e just like alien or foreigner) but outsider and elemental are not. So there's no disfunction there.

Edit: And regarding the targeting, it's a calling spell so targeting as other spells is overridden. See Calling: PHB 172.

Urpriest

2013-02-15, 09:52 PM

The SRD says:

So doesn't this mean that when Doresain was promoted to a demigod in Libris Mortis that he should have gained a divine rank of 1-5? The SRD also says:

So doesn't this mean he should get Salient Divine Abilities as well?

I hadn't realized he was explicitly a Demigod in Libris Mortis, rather than simply given domains. So we've got two contradictory sets of stats for him, both in varying stages of incompleteness.

Venger

2013-02-15, 10:14 PM

I hadn't realized he was explicitly a Demigod in Libris Mortis, rather than simply given domains. So we've got two contradictory sets of stats for him, both in varying stages of incompleteness.

LM just calls him out as a demigod but does not give any additional rules info (stats, abilities, etc) nor does it tell us what actual number his divine rank is.

Hiro Protagonest

2013-02-15, 10:44 PM

When talking about using tower shields, nobody brings up the -4 to melee attacks.

Slipperychicken

2013-02-15, 11:01 PM

When talking about using tower shields, nobody brings up the -4 to melee attacks.

It's actually a -2. And also makes no damn sense.

rockdeworld

2013-02-15, 11:05 PM

Edit: And regarding the targeting, it's a calling spell so targeting as other spells is overridden. See Calling: PHB 172.
I concede that since I don't have the PHB to check. That means the PHB has rules that don't appear on D20SRD, since the calling section on that site does not override the need for calling spells to have line of effect to their target.

MeiLeTeng

2013-02-15, 11:12 PM

I concede that since I don't have the PHB to check. That means the PHB has rules that don't appear on D20SRD, since the calling section on that site does not override the need for calling spells to have line of effect to their target.

A calling spell transports a creature from another plane to the plane you are on. The spell grants the creature the one-time ability to return to its plane of origin, although the spell may limit the circumstances under which this is possible. Creatures who are called actually die when they are killed; they do not disappear and reform, as do those brought by a summoning spell (see below). The duration of a calling spell is instantaneous, which means that the called creature can’t be dispelled.

Is also exactly what pg 172 of the PHB says under calling.

Cog

2013-02-15, 11:28 PM

I concede that since I don't have the PHB to check. That means the PHB has rules that don't appear on D20SRD, since the calling section on that site does not override the need for calling spells to have line of effect to their target.
If the specific purpose of the Calling subschool is to target creatures on other planes, then that overrides the general rules about spell targeting.

JaronK

2013-02-16, 12:00 AM

When talking about using tower shields, nobody brings up the -4 to melee attacks.

Really? I find people just don't use Tower Shields due to the -2 to hit, unless it's an army situation and you've got archers with such shields.

JaronK

Lonely Tylenol

2013-02-16, 01:14 AM

Three more things, none is particularly obscure, or at least don't seem so.

The spell cloud wings enhances the fly speed of any creature, but not other movement.

The longest non-permanent duration for a spell I've seen is 1 year. Points to whomever knows which it is.

If you want to throw a blend of scorpion and humanoid at your party, you have 5 potential options: Scorrow, Scorpionfolk, Stinger, Tauric humanoid/monstrous scorpion, and Symbiote humanoid/monstrous scorpion.

Six. There is also the Werescorpion (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20040628a), created using the Entomanthrope (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20040621a) template.

:smallsigh: That's what I get for trying to show off. The spell was stone heart, points to Venger.

At least my monster one hasn't been disproved. . . .

Whoops. :smallredface:

My turn:

A murder of crows can be summoned with Summon Swarm (ToM, p. 88). To my knowledge, they are the only creature added to Summon Swarm's summoning list outside of core: there are elemental swarms, but they are summoned using the Summon Monster line.

georgie_leech

2013-02-16, 01:15 AM

If the specific purpose of the Calling subschool is to target creatures on other planes, then that overrides the general rules about spell targeting.

Yeah, but it also doesn't actually say anything about not needing LoE. RAI? I certainly hope not, but since it doesn't actually say anything about line of Effect, it doesn't overwrite anything by RAW

The Viscount

2013-02-16, 02:12 AM

Six. There is also the Werescorpion (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20040628a), created using the Entomanthrope (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20040621a) template.

Whoops. :smallredface:.

Man, I just can't be right, can I? Next someone's going to tell me there's another method of crit-stacking.

JaronK

2013-02-16, 02:29 AM

There's a Cityscape Barbarian substitution that increases your crit range and stacks with other crit stacking methods. Is that what you mean?

JaronK

The Viscount

2013-02-16, 04:49 AM

I need to learn to keep my mouth shut. I was not in fact talking about the Streetfighter ACF, neat as it is, though it is a valid method of improving critical threat ranges. I was talking about Disciple of Dispater, which, though from BoVD, is still legal as it has not been updated or errata'd to have different class features. A threat range of 9-20? Now that's some critstacking. Come to think of it, one might be able to cram 7 levels of Barbarian on there and make it 8-20. You could threaten a crit and not actually hit anybody.

JaronK

2013-02-16, 04:53 AM

Morph Bark

2013-02-16, 08:03 AM

Care to share more?

It was in a Rokugan book. I believe it was Magic of Rokugan.

Sgt. Cookie

2013-02-16, 11:15 AM

Without multiclassing or DM fiat, you can't get Martial Scripts of Iron Heart maneouvers.

Pickford

2013-02-16, 11:19 AM

It's actually a -2. And also makes no damn sense.

I think it's because the item is so heavy? Not bad actually since you can combine it with fighting defensively 'and' combat expertise.

edit:
Really? I find people just don't use Tower Shields due to the -2 to hit, unless it's an army situation and you've got archers with such shields.

JaronK

Archers can't use the tower shield because you can't use your shield arm to do anything else...??

Pickford

2013-02-16, 11:22 AM

Yeah, but it also doesn't actually say anything about not needing LoE. RAI? I certainly hope not, but since it doesn't actually say anything about line of Effect, it doesn't overwrite anything by RAW

Given that the target is, by definition, not possible to be in LOE, yes I'd say it says something about not needing LOE.

Curmudgeon

2013-02-16, 11:24 AM

I was talking about Disciple of Dispater, which, though from BoVD, is still legal as it has not been updated or errata'd to have different class features.
It's still legal to use, though you'll get different results depending on what "minor adjustments" your individual DM decides are required (see page 4 of the 3.5 Dungeon Master's Guide).

A threat range of 9-20? Now that's some critstacking.
That's one thing you definitely won't get in 3.5, with or without Disciple of Dispater. The DoD Iron Power class feature stacks with 3.0 Improved Critical, but that can't happen in 3.5 D&D; the 3.5 version of Improved Critical wins that minor disagreement.

Sgt. Cookie

2013-02-16, 11:27 AM

Morcleon

2013-02-16, 11:35 AM

Ooh. This is something I noticed just now. Liches can still benefit from Inspire X (Courage, Greatness, Etc), or other similar effects. Why? By strict RAW, Liches are only immune to mind effecting attacks.

Actually, being undead, they are still immune to mind affecting effects...

However, it is possible to lower this immunity to allow for beneficial effects, as stated in the PHB on voluntarily giving up saving throws. It gives the example of an elf lowering their racial sleep effect immunity. Thus non-mindless undead can lower their immunity to mind affecting effects.:smallsmile:

Sgt. Cookie

2013-02-16, 11:51 AM

No, they don't need to lower it.

I quote the SRD (MM says the same):

Immunities (Ex):

Liches have immunity to cold, electricity, polymorph (though they can use polymorph effects on themselves), and mind-affecting attacks.

Emphasis mine.

And the oft cited "Specific trumps general" rule. The specific ruling of the Lich's immunity trumps the general Undead immunity ruling.

Morcleon

2013-02-16, 11:55 AM

No, they don't need to lower it.

I quote the SRD (MM says the same):

Emphasis mine.

And the oft cited "Specific trumps general" rule. The specific ruling of the Lich's immunity trumps the general Undead immunity ruling.

Is there any reason why they can't be immune to both mind-affecting attacks and mind-affecting effects? The two aren't mutually exclusive... :smalltongue:

It's like being a vampire (immunity to precision damage), and then picking up a suit of +1 Heavy Fortification Chainmail. :smalltongue:

Sgt. Cookie

2013-02-16, 12:09 PM

Psyren

2013-02-16, 12:13 PM

Incarnum and Truenaming can destroy artifacts. Take that magic!

Morcleon

2013-02-16, 12:13 PM

Aha, but in that situation, the Heavy Fortification is actualy the general rule. This is because Heavy Fortification applies to anything that wears it. While Undead immunity to precision damage is specficly about Undead.

Yeah, but it never says in the Lich entry that it replaces the immunity to MA effects with immunity to MA attacks. It just says that it has immunity to MA attacks. :smalltongue:

JaronK

2013-02-16, 12:15 PM

Indeed, the Lich's immunity is a layered on addition. It means if you bypass their undead immunity, the Lich is still immune anyway. For example, a Bard with Inspire Awe, Haunting Melody, and Requiem can make all undead in the area frightened and their usual immunity to fear doesn't apply. Against a Lich however the ability wouldn't work.

@Psyren: Apocalypse from the sky kills artifacts too!

JaronK