Help with a Paladin Build. 3.5

[Blade Conduit]

Ok, so I've got an idea for a 3.5 paladin. Here's the layout so far, Human stats Str 17 Dex 12 Con 15 Int 10 Wis 14 Cha 18. Those are open for debate but I think they look pretty good where they are.
The interesting part, or at least i think its interesting, is I want him to wield a Large Warhammer. If I'm not mistaken because its a one handed weapon of one category higher than himself he can wield it with two hands at a -2. I was wondering what would be a good build for him. Feats, possible dips (though I'd prefer straight Paladin and a prestige class later), prestige classes, and even items that might make the idea more interesting.
I'm not necessarily looking for optimization but rather good and unique ways to make this build really viable. Any and all help would be appreciated.
If it helps setting is Eberron and my Character is a Paladin within The Silver Flame. Sources available are very open I just have to run it by the DM first. Thanks in advance for any and all help.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

If you're level 12+, you could use the Major Titan Bloodline (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm#titan) to gain the Oversize Weapon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/titan.htm) extraordinary ability which permits you to wield a two-handed warhammer sized for a gargantuan creature without penalty.

Bloodline levels only cost you 1,000 xp each: At 1st level once you've gained 1,000 xp, you gain a bloodline level Bloodline levels don't increase your character level, so you still need only 1,000 xp to gain your next level. Repeat until you've got all the Bloodline levels you need (three for a major bloodline), and within just a few levels that shortage becomes insignificant.

[Flickerdart]

A Large Warhammer for you is a weapon that deals 2d6 damage. A Greatsword deals the same amount of damage without the -2 size penalty. What's the point of using the hammer? What exactly is the "idea" here other than "let's take an inefficient weapon on a class that already needs all the help it can get"? Without even a bit of fluff gained from it, how is taking a penalty in return for nothing "interesting"? Please explain your reasoning so we can see what it is you want to accomplish with the character.

[Blade Conduit]

The reasoning is a. don't want to be just another paladin with a greatsword. b. his house's symbol is a warhammer. c. I want to give him the nickname "The Hammer". I know its not the optimal way to go with the character but I think its an interesting way to go with the character, and uhh just cuz... I'm pretty sure that should be reason enough. :smallamused:

@Biffoniacus_Furiou

If you're level 12+, you could use the Major Titan Bloodline (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm#titan) to gain the Oversize Weapon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/titan.htm) extraordinary ability which permits you to wield a two-handed warhammer sized for a gargantuan creature without penalty.

Bloodline levels only cost you 1,000 xp each: At 1st level once you've gained 1,000 xp, you gain a bloodline level Bloodline levels don't increase your character level, so you still need only 1,000 xp to gain your next level. Repeat until you've got all the Bloodline levels you need (three for a major bloodline), and within just a few levels that shortage becomes insignificant.

Nice idea.. Definitely going to l look into that.

[Flickerdart]

I personally don't see how a guy with a hammer is any more interesting than a guy with a sword, or why you can't just refluff the sword as a hammer, but whatever.

One of your options is simply wielding a hammer of your size with two hands. You lose 2.5 damage, but gain +2 to-hit, which translates into 4 damage with Power Attack, so you're better off. Another option is to use Strongarm Bracers, which get rid of the penalty. If you have a feat to spare on Exotic Weapon Prof, then the Goliath Greathammer (1d12, x4 crits, +2 to sunder) or the Minotaur Greathammer (1d12, 19-20/x4 crits) are good options.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Rather than going with an oversized hammer, just use one that's significantly better than most other weapons. Take Exotic Weapon Proficiency for a Greathorn Minotaur Greathammer (MMIV), it does 1d12 base damage medium size, and has a 19-20/x4 threat/crit.

[Clistenes]

Rather than going with an oversized hammer, just use one that's significantly better than most other weapons. Take Exotic Weapon Proficiency for a Greathorn Minotaur Greathammer (MMIV), it does 1d12 base damage medium size, and has a 19-20/x4 threat/crit.

That's one of the few exotic weapons that is worth the Exotic Proficiency Feat, at least for a fighter that can take a few feats and exploit that x4 to criticals. Not so much for a paladin, maybe, but still your best option.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

That's one of the few exotic weapons that is worth the Exotic Proficiency Feat, at least for a fighter that can take a few feats and exploit that x4 to criticals. Not so much for a paladin, maybe, but still your best option.

Smite Evil and especially Charging Smite can make a x4 crit lethal for just about any affected opponent.


Edit: And while we're talking about Paladins, this is my standard advice (http://alt.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=249271#8) for making one that's good at more than just hitting bad things.

[Blade Conduit]

Thank you all for excellent ideas. I think I'm going to use the exotic weapons proficiency since that seems to be getting a lot of suggestions and I'm thinking of taking the Holy Warrior Variant, doing away with spells and the feat won't hurt as much. I really appreciate the help and I'll be sure to have a better reason why whenever I get around to asking a question again. :smallamused:

[Keltaris]

You gotta name him Marcus C. Hammer.

You gotta.

[Clistenes]

Smite Evil and especially Charging Smite can make a x4 crit lethal for just about any affected opponent.

Maybe if he takes levels as Fist of Raziel for the Confirming feature.

[Flickerdart]

You gotta name him Marcus C. Hammer.

You gotta.
Sure you mean Mallet C. Hammer.

[Sugashane]

Good rolls, might want to give the Bard 1/ Monk 2/ Paladin 17 a thought. If you plan on using armor then Monk 1/ Paladin 18 instead, as the evasion feat is not going to count in armor.

Use Devoted Performer and Ascetic Knight to give you the unarmed strike damage at a 19th level monk, bardic music at 18th or 19th level (depending on monk level) and smite as a 20th level paladin.

To keep skills up you will want to take Able Learner to allow for eliminating cross-class skills.

[Flickerdart]

the unarmed strike damage at a 19th level monk
Doesn't really help the hammer thing.



bardic music at 18th or 19th level (depending on monk level)
Nope. Devoted Performer only grants you more uses, so he would have 19 uses of Inspire Courage +1.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Good rolls, might want to give the Bard 1/ Monk 2/ Paladin 17 a thought. If you plan on using armor then Monk 1/ Paladin 18 instead, as the evasion feat is not going to count in armor.

Use Devoted Performer and Ascetic Knight to give you the unarmed strike damage at a 19th level monk, bardic music at 18th or 19th level (depending on monk level) and smite as a 20th level paladin.

To keep skills up you will want to take Able Learner to allow for eliminating cross-class skills.

The Harmonious Knight (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a) sub levels would be more beneficial than putting Bard in that build.

[Flickerdart]

The Harmonious Knight (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a) sub levels would be more beneficial than putting Bard in that build.

Ehh...the non-IC songs are only usable 1/day, making them largely useless, and at least the Bard level can ACF/feat into something more useful than +1 to hit and damage.

[Soranar]

There's not that many ways to optimize a paladin's damage output.

option A , mounted combat

-Basically wield a lance, charge from atop a mount, get double damage
then triple (with spirited charge)
then quadruple (with proper magic item)
then quintuple (with proper spell)

If you smite and power attack while doing this the damage is more than respectable. For obvious reasons this combo work better with a lance... moving on

works best with small races paladin (who can ride on a medium mount and just go with those anywhere)

option B, from smite to song (feat)

-trade your smite evil attempts for inspire courage (scales as fast as a bard's) . This is a really powerful option BUT you must worship Milil (which limits other roleplay options

if you take the extra smite feat you can have enough smites to sing AND smite evil (which means the mounted charge combo works too)

option C , be a half-orc (seriously)

-half-orcs have a substitution level that trades smite evil for a buff (last Cha bonus rounds, scaled damaged on every attack)
-unlike smite evil this is a self buff so it works on anything
-best half-orc for this is a desert half-orc (no cha penalty)
-instead of 1 large attack, this works better with several attacks

option D , ubercharger option (seems appropriate for your idea)

-trade your mount for the charging smite option
-go the traditional shock trooper power attack charge leap attack route

[JeminiZero]

Out of curiosity, why not a Crusader?

[Lorsa]

I seem to remember big hammers being quite good at destroying your opponent's weapons (that is, sunder attacks), so if you get the improved sunder feat and maybe an adamantine two-handed hammer you should be able to "disarm" your opponents quite easily. Of course that may destroy some loot in the process and if you fight a lot of monsters without weapons then it's not as good. If you go for that check out the combat brute feat in CW. Might not be a good tactic but it's different?

Also, for any paladin or multi-class cleric with high charisma I think the sacred healing feat is the best use of your turn undead you have. It's not like you really want those puny skeletons you can easily smash running away anyway.

[Gwendol]

Enough crusader levels to get Mountain Hammer strike wouldn't hurt. Ignore hardness and DR once in a while will earn you style-points.

[Blade Conduit]

More and more fantastic ideas. To update you all my DM has allowed the Greathammer as a 1d12 19-20/x3 which is good enough for me, like I said I wasn't going for purely optimization. I also wrote up a story of how I managed to come across a Minotaur and survived to get his hammer. I'm definitely looking into Crusader and I'm definitely going Holy Warrior for more feats. Thank you all so far and If you have any more ideas keep em coming.

[Blade Conduit]

Out of curiosity, why not a Crusader?

**slaps forehead** because I hadn't thought of that.. I took avenging strike.. better than smite anyway.

[Seharvepernfan]

Look, forget the whole "large warhammer used two-handed" thing, and just ask your DM for a two-handed hammer equivalent to the greatsword and greataxe. I allow these in my games, and I call them "mattocks".

1d12, x3, B, 10lbs., 32gp.

Bam. Done.

[Blade Conduit]

Look, forget the whole "large warhammer used two-handed" thing, and just ask your DM for a two-handed hammer equivalent to the greatsword and greataxe. I allow these in my games, and I call them "mattocks".

1d12, x3, B, 10lbs., 32gp.

Bam. Done.

Got it except 19-20 x3.

[Seharvepernfan]

Got it except 19-20 x3.

Well of course I didn't read the whole thread!

My bad. I'll just let myself out.

[Blade Conduit]

Well of course I didn't read the whole thread!

My bad. I'll just let myself out.

Uhhhh the door's the other way.

[Gavinfoxx]

Martial big 2h hammers

Executioner's Mace, Dungeon Magazine 135.
Heavy Flail, PHB
Maul, Complete Warrior
Warmace, Complete Warrior or Complete Adventurer