Help me coolify (and direct) this Samurai

[danzibr]

Yup, a real, genuine Samurai, not just samurai.

Party info: I'm playing with a Barbarian who's going to barbar people in the face, a blasty/control Sorc and a healing Cleric. They are not optimizers.

Character idea:
The samurai. A learned guy who rides a horse, practices archery, acts honorably and, perhaps most importantly, does swordplay.
Mechanically, I want him to be a scary dude. Fearsome Armor + Imperious Command + Mass Staredown.

Implementing the character idea:
Note we just started at level 1, now going to level 2. 32 pb. 2 flaws, 1 trait allowed. No LA. Anything published allowed.

CW Samurai, dips and PrC's welcome, but I do not want to make this guy too strong (I am the only optimizer), hence CW Samurai. So no ubercharging Leap Attack + Shock Trooper business.

Right now I'm looking at Hellbred (likely not changing) CW Samurai 2, probably take some Warblade or Swordsage at some point. For a trait, Abrasive. For a flaw (just one at the moment), Weak Will (sort of for flavor reasons). Have Skill Focus-Intimidate and good ol' Power Attack.

Problem: Where do I go? I'll probably stick to CW Samurai until 10 for Mass Staredown, but after that... what? Probably Exemplar. Probably some ToB in there. I don't want to go too ToB, seems too strong for my group.

Another problem:
The horse:
Right now he's a heavy warhorse. He's good at level 2, but scales very poorly (not at all). Right now I have room for another feat via a flaw and was thinking of taking Wild Cohort. However, I don't want to take a bunch of actions and hog time.

Would you suggest buffing my horse or not? I could invest a bunch of feats and money and stuff into my mount, but again, I don't want my mount to end up stronger than the party's Barbarian.

tl;dr?
How would you make a Hellbred CW Samurai who 1) sucks a little, 2) rides a horse, 3) uses a katana, 4) scares people and 5) uses a bow?

[Kuulvheysoon]

Yup, a real, genuine Samurai, not just samurai.

Party info: I'm playing with a Barbarian who's going to barbar people in the face, a blasty/control Sorc and a healing Cleric. They are not optimizers.

Character idea:
The samurai. A learned guy who rides a horse, practices archery, acts honorably and, perhaps most importantly, does swordplay.
Mechanically, I want him to be a scary dude. Fearsome Armor + Imperious Command + Mass Staredown.

Implementing the character idea:
Note we just started at level 1, now going to level 2. 32 pb. 2 flaws, 1 trait allowed. No LA. Anything published allowed.

CW Samurai, dips and PrC's welcome, but I do not want to make this guy too strong (I am the only optimizer), hence CW Samurai. So no ubercharging Leap Attack + Shock Trooper business.

Right now I'm looking at Hellbred (likely not changing) CW Samurai 2, probably take some Warblade or Swordsage at some point. For a trait, Abrasive. For a flaw (just one at the moment), Weak Will (sort of for flavor reasons). Have Skill Focus-Intimidate and good ol' Power Attack.

Problem: Where do I go? I'll probably stick to CW Samurai until 10 for Mass Staredown, but after that... what? Probably Exemplar. Probably some ToB in there. I don't want to go too ToB, seems too strong for my group.

Another problem:
The horse:
Right now he's a heavy warhorse. He's good at level 2, but scales very poorly (not at all). Right now I have room for another feat via a flaw and was thinking of taking Wild Cohort. However, I don't want to take a bunch of actions and hog time.

Would you suggest buffing my horse or not? I could invest a bunch of feats and money and stuff into my mount, but again, I don't want my mount to end up stronger than the party's Barbarian.

tl;dr?
How would you make a Hellbred CW Samurai who 1) sucks a little, 2) rides a horse, 3) uses a katana, 4) scares people and 5) uses a bow?

I don't think that you'll have any problems about sucking - you're playing as a CW Samurai.

If you fight more low-HD battles, you might consider the (Improved) Kiai Shout feat(s). The Improved version is especially nice, if it flys.

I'd actually seriously think about going Samurai 11 - Two Swords As One might not cut it as TWF for the purposes of Gloves of the Balanced Hand.

Mounted Combat (and (Improved) Mounted Archery) seem like ideal feats for you. IIRC, there might be some Tuigan bows-on-horsback feats in one of the FR books... UE, perhaps?

[avr]

Are you likely to be able to buy improved mounts? Magebred horses (Eberron), hippogriffs (MM) etc. can remain useful for more levels than the standard issue warhorse.

If you're dipping a little Warblade, a couple of levels of the Bloodstorm Blade PrC becomes a ranged option for you. Throwing your katana can be stylish.

[Cog]

Exotic Weapon Master can offer you some benefit: even if you don't want Leap Attack, you can still get full Power Attack on your main weapon while dual-wielding, and another ability situationally gives you your BAB to Intimidate.

The Wild Cohort feat can get you Animal Companion-like progression for your horse, to keep it from being squishy at higher levels.

[Muktidata]

It might be more powerful than you're looking for, but Iajutsu Master from OA is kinda fun. If it were me, though, I'd stick with pure Suckamurai just to say I did it.

For scaring people, use Dreadful Wrath out of Faerun stuff.

For archery, just buff your dex and strength and use a masterwork composite bow. That's all you need alongside Mounted Archery. Throw it down as a free action when baddies draw near. By the time your party is in melee range for Precise Shot to matter you would rather be fighting in melee it sounds like.

I'd also consider a lance while riding. Again, throw it down as a free action.

Most of your usefullness will be from making wise item choices. Is a +2 over a +1 armor really that much more useful than various utility items like most of the stuff from the haversack handbook? Don't sell your soul for the next highest wakazashi.

Lastly don't force yourself into a narrow build. The more open you keep yourself, the more happy you'll be. Which it sounds like you're on a good path if you achieve all of the goals you listed.

[Greenish]

Ronin is your friend.

[DMVerdandi]

Yup, a real, genuine Samurai, not just samurai.

Party info: I'm playing with a Barbarian who's going to barbar people in the face, a blasty/control Sorc and a healing Cleric. They are not optimizers.

Character idea:
The samurai. A learned guy who rides a horse, practices archery, acts honorably and, perhaps most importantly, does swordplay.
Mechanically, I want him to be a scary dude. Fearsome Armor + Imperious Command + Mass Staredown.

Implementing the character idea:
Note we just started at level 1, now going to level 2. 32 pb. 2 flaws, 1 trait allowed. No LA. Anything published allowed.

CW Samurai, dips and PrC's welcome, but I do not want to make this guy too strong (I am the only optimizer), hence CW Samurai. So no ubercharging Leap Attack + Shock Trooper business.

Right now I'm looking at Hellbred (likely not changing) CW Samurai 2, probably take some Warblade or Swordsage at some point. For a trait, Abrasive. For a flaw (just one at the moment), Weak Will (sort of for flavor reasons). Have Skill Focus-Intimidate and good ol' Power Attack.

Problem: Where do I go? I'll probably stick to CW Samurai until 10 for Mass Staredown, but after that... what? Probably Exemplar. Probably some ToB in there. I don't want to go too ToB, seems too strong for my group.

Another problem:
The horse:
Right now he's a heavy warhorse. He's good at level 2, but scales very poorly (not at all). Right now I have room for another feat via a flaw and was thinking of taking Wild Cohort. However, I don't want to take a bunch of actions and hog time.

Would you suggest buffing my horse or not? I could invest a bunch of feats and money and stuff into my mount, but again, I don't want my mount to end up stronger than the party's Barbarian.

tl;dr?
How would you make a Hellbred CW Samurai who 1) sucks a little, 2) rides a horse, 3) uses a katana, 4) scares people and 5) uses a bow?

Personally, I would make samurai in a couple different ways.

1.Cleric.
I would use buffs to simulate ki buffing me, and would eventually get smiting spell so that the divine magic would infuse my blade. Sword Saint style.

2. TOB.
Any single one can be perfect. Warblade simulates the warrior, Swordsage simulates the ascetic, crusader simulates the guardian. Mixing them all together is possible too.
For your style however, using a crusader would be best. In fact, I would use crusader.

3. Psychic warrior.
See where I am going? Playing the concept doesn't mean choosing the class, but the most mechanically sound alternate.
Psychic warrior is a hella decent class, that gives you awesome combat buffs with psionic power, and allows you to fight at quite a high level.


All of them can be samurai, and neither needs to take the pathetic samurai class to actually do it. You would probably also need to pick up martial weapon proficiency as a feat for them, but that is cake.
Throw on some O-yoroi and buff intimidate.

I would also try to get a rifle if I were you. Samurai were also gunfighters.
And magic guns < magic bows.

[Eugenides]

Personally, I would make samurai in a couple different ways.

1.Cleric.
I would use buffs to simulate ki buffing me, and would eventually get smiting spell so that the divine magic would infuse my blade. Sword Saint style.

2. TOB.
Any single one can be perfect. Warblade simulates the warrior, Swordsage simulates the ascetic, crusader simulates the guardian. Mixing them all together is possible too.
For your style however, using a crusader would be best. In fact, I would use crusader.

3. Psychic warrior.
See where I am going? Playing the concept doesn't mean choosing the class, but the most mechanically sound alternate.
Psychic warrior is a hella decent class, that gives you awesome combat buffs with psionic power, and allows you to fight at quite a high level.


All of them can be samurai, and neither needs to take the pathetic samurai class to actually do it. You would probably also need to pick up martial weapon proficiency as a feat for them, but that is cake.
Throw on some O-yoroi and buff intimidate.

I would also try to get a rifle if I were you. Samurai were also gunfighters.
And magic guns < magic bows.

Did you read his post? Or just see "oh, dude wants to do a samurai, I'll tell him how to make an optimized one."

Because, if you read it, he wants to use CW Samurai to minimize his optimization.

[danzibr]

Thanks for the responses all! I'll be sure to look at the aforementioned feats and whatnot. Right now... well, I have many, many options. I have free feats left and right, to be honest. Ultimately I'll probably go some combination of Samurai, Warblade, Swordsage and stuff (for the ToB I'll probably only take one each at just the right moment to pick up some key maneuvers I want). I'll work on it over the next couple days and come back with an honest build.

My issue now is I have many things I wish to do. Should I focus on mounted archery? Using a lance (did samurai do this)? Swordplay? Fear?

Did you read his post? Or just see "oh, dude wants to do a samurai, I'll tell him how to make an optimized one."

Because, if you read it, he wants to use CW Samurai to minimize his optimization.
Right, indeed.

[Greenish]

My issue now is I have many things I wish to do. Should I focus on mounted archery? Using a lance (did samurai do this)? Swordplay? Fear?Classic samurai weapons were, to the best of my understanding, spear and bow. Mounted archery is a possibility, and a lance should be close enough.

As for fear, well, that can be optimized to silly amounts (someone can probably link the fear-lock samurai), so you'll want to be careful there.

[Vaz]

Even if you want to make a CW Samurai, a better can be made through feats. It will still suck - Fear Stacking is typically HD based, and most monsters have a HD higher than yours. Without going into raising your HD (Dusk Giant, much), that makes it less useful.

Still, you might find this thread useful - Fear Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3809.0).

[Ellrin]

My issue now is I have many things I wish to do. Should I focus on mounted archery? Using a lance (did samurai do this)? Swordplay? Fear?

With your party, I would do the bare minimum to be a relatively effective ranged combatant and then focus the rest on frontline. You already have the barbarian to axe-punch people in the face, so I'd say focus less on damage and more on absorbing and debuffing damage. Oriental Adventures, if memory serves correct, offers some new uses for intimidate, and possibly some other mundane fear effects (and you may want to check out the iaijutsu section--I can't actually remember what it does, but it's definitely samurai fluffed).

And if you want to maintain the samurai fluff, here's a breakdown of traditional samurai weaponry and roles.

The traditional weapons of choice for a mounted samurai were the yumi (a slightly recurved longbow), the yari (a spear), the naginata (essentially a heavy glaive with a shorter haft), and either a tachi or a katana (both of which are essentially curved, single-edged bastard swords in D&D terms).

Brief explanation: tachi were the first kind of curved sword popular in medieval Japan. They were worn facing downwards and were slightly longer and more curved than katana, though otherwise they were very similar. They would be easier to draw when mounted than katana, which are typically worn with the blade facing upwards. Katana became popular later on, to the point where many tachi were actually converted to katana. As swords started to become the most symbolic weapon of the samurai, all samurai would wear at least a pair--a tachi or katand plus a wakizashi or kodachi (both essentially long knives). During the height of the mounted samurai's heyday, many samurai would wear three or four, and some wore even more than that.

Later on, many (though not most) samurai learned to use rifles as they became more widely available, and entire military divisions were trained as riflemen by some warlords, so if firearms are allowed in your campaign (and they don't completely suck), it's definitely worth considering.

The original role of samurai was as heavily armored mounted archers. Swordplay was always important, but, as with all romanticized historical soldiers, samurai were, in truth, practical enough to prefer the most effective weapons of the day over swords where possible.

They were never shock troopers in the same sense as the mounted, plate-armored European knight with a shield and lance. There were certainly mounted charges, but those weren't the first and last lines of defense. In mounted melee, a sword or naginata would largely be preferred. Naginata were originally made for mounted combat, in fact, to more easily strike down footsoldiers.

On foot, a typical samurai would use a bow from afar, switching to his biggest sword (usually the tachi/katana) when he got into melee. Once the katana became popular, lightning fast draws of the blade became critical, which is why they were worn with the blade facing upwards--to make the drawing action an attacking action. Quick Draw would be the way to reflect that if you were interested. Some samurai did prefer naginata, spears, or even other, more obscure weapons on foot, though you didn't see the large proliferation of weapon variety that European knights employed. Far more so than even in our romanticized version of the knight, the sword was the symbol of the samurai (even if, in battles, the bow was preferred when possible).

Two-weapon fighting was extremely rare for the majority of the history of the samurai. It certainly existed well before Musashi (active around the beginning of the 17th century), but he was the one who really made it popular--and even then, it still was very much less common than single-sword styles.

[Fable Wright]

I'll second Exotic Weapons Master; from what I recall, it can be pretty good.

Kensai fits well flavor-wise, and isn't too powerful, though it is cool.

Also, Mass Staredown can probably be skipped; Never Outnumbered does the same thing, but for 2 skill points intead of a number of levels in Samurai.

[danzibr]

Thanks for the responses all. Especially the historical one. Very interesting.

Alright, here's the build. I know there's plenty of room for optimization, which I'm avoiding. Keep in mind we're level 2 and I don't know how long the campaign will go.

Samurai 6/Warblade 1/Crusader 1/Swordsage 1/Exemplar 1/Master of Nine 1/??? 9

This forces me to be in Samurai long enough to gain Staredown. For feats I'm taking Skill Focus (Intimidate) at level 1, no flaws. Power Attack at 3 (might change this, maybe Quick Draw), Imperious Command at 6, unsure about 9. Ultimately I decided against Wild Cohort and that one feat that does more damage on a mounted charge.

In battle I'll use my bow from afar, switch to lance to charge, bust out katana in close quarters, scare some peeps, all the while shouting things about tasting steel and whatnot.

[Vaz]

With Charisma Synergy, Crusader 2 seems like a must. There's a feat, called Divine Shield which allows you to spend Turn Undead attempts for a Charisma Bonus to Armour if you use a Shield; admittedly, Samurai might historically not have used shields or bucklers, but then again, we are talking about combatting Demons or walking skeletons.

There's a Prestige Class IIRC which grants a 30ft Fear aura based on his Sudden Strikes or Sneak Attacks; might be useful, with useful benefits up to 4th level.

One problem with being a Fear-monger is that too many enemies render many abilities useless (some Fear affects are based off comparable HD's, or they are Undead or have some other manner to be immune to Fear).

[danzibr]

With Charisma Synergy, Crusader 2 seems like a must. There's a feat, called Divine Shield which allows you to spend Turn Undead attempts for a Charisma Bonus to Armour if you use a Shield; admittedly, Samurai might historically not have used shields or bucklers, but then again, we are talking about combatting Demons or walking skeletons.

There's a Prestige Class IIRC which grants a 30ft Fear aura based on his Sudden Strikes or Sneak Attacks; might be useful, with useful benefits up to 4th level.

One problem with being a Fear-monger is that too many enemies render many abilities useless (some Fear affects are based off comparable HD's, or they are Undead or have some other manner to be immune to Fear).
Good points, good points. I looked here (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3809.0) for a source of PrC's relating to fear stuff and found nothing interesting. I mean, some looked decent but clashed with the character for other reasons.

As far as the HD and whatnot goes, fortunately Imperious Command and that skill trick only care about having really high Intimidate checks. I mean, undead and stuff are still immune (in fact plenty of things), but hey.

[Vaz]

Avenging Executioner is the name of that Prestige Class, Complete Scpundrel I think. Personally I cannot see much that the class does not give. Iaijutsu Master from OA fits decently, it has a Charisma Focus, but not so much a Fear focus outside of Charisma Bonus.

[danzibr]

Avenging Executioner is the name of that Prestige Class, Complete Scpundrel I think. Personally I cannot see much that the class does not give. Iaijutsu Master from OA fits decently, it has a Charisma Focus, but not so much a Fear focus outside of Charisma Bonus.
Hrm, yeah. I checked out Avenging Executioner. If my character gets terribly wronged in some way I may end up taking it. One of its useful abilities, being able to demoralize as a move action instead of standard, is obsolete due to that armor enchantment from DotU (Fearsome?).

I'll also have to run 3.0 stuff by the DM. Hey, thanks for the suggestions.

[Xenogears]

Hrm, yeah. I checked out Avenging Executioner. If my character gets terribly wronged in some way I may end up taking it. One of its useful abilities, being able to demoralize as a move action instead of standard, is obsolete due to that armor enchantment from DotU (Fearsome?).

I'll also have to run 3.0 stuff by the DM. Hey, thanks for the suggestions.

While you are asking about 3.0 stuff from OA there is also the Singh Rager PrC from the same book. Requirements are easy (Lawful, +7BAB, Ki Shout [Kaia Shout is the 3.5 version so it should work for it], and Iron Will). Gives full BAB, good fort and will IIRC, gives great Ki Shout for free, allows you to use Ki shouts 4 + Cha mod times per day, gives a bonus to your Ki shouts, lets you use them as part of a charge, rage (only way to get it as lawful that I know of), pounce, immunity to fear, and a couple other minor things.

[Greenish]

rage (only way to get it as lawful that I know of)There's half-orc paragon from UA.

[danzibr]

While you are asking about 3.0 stuff from OA there is also the Singh Rager PrC from the same book. Requirements are easy (Lawful, +7BAB, Ki Shout [Kaia Shout is the 3.5 version so it should work for it], and Iron Will). Gives full BAB, good fort and will IIRC, gives great Ki Shout for free, allows you to use Ki shouts 4 + Cha mod times per day, gives a bonus to your Ki shouts, lets you use them as part of a charge, rage (only way to get it as lawful that I know of), pounce, immunity to fear, and a couple other minor things.
Xenogears is one of the best games ever.

That aside, holy moly dude. This may have changed my entire build. This opens up a lot of doors (well, at least a couple come to mind) regarding fear-rage combos.

What a gem.

[Xenogears]

Xenogears is one of the best games ever.

That aside, holy moly dude. This may have changed my entire build. This opens up a lot of doors (well, at least a couple come to mind) regarding fear-rage combos.

What a gem.

Oh yeah it's a great game. Recently replayed it just to make sure it wasn't all nostalgia telling me it was so much fun and proved to myself it was still great.

OT: There are a ton of cool classes in that book and most of them update to 3.5 without much effort. Most of CW is just reprints of OA classes actually lol. Speaking of which see if you can get your DM to let you use the OA Samurai instead of the CW one (unless you really want to use the CW one).

It has more skill points (4 per lvl instead of 2), gets Fort AND Will as good saves, gets almost as many feats as a fighter (you do have to choose from one of 8 or so smaller lists but one of them contains all the feats for the PrC I mentioned so it could at the least free up your regular feats for better stuff), and gets a masterwork Katana and Wakizashi at first level that can be upgraded like with that feat from BoED.

It's not a whole let but it's better than psuedo two-weapon fighting and the other crap the CW one gets at least.