"Steeldance" and "Spell Matrix" question

[ps377]

Hello, im new in the forum, greetings to all.
My question is, if i can cast "steeldance" in a "spell matrix" (both in "spell compendium"), and if i can, what's exactly is happening (have to do). I will explain below.

1) can i cast it?
the only restriction i found is that "Only a spell that can be altered by the Quicken Spell feat can be placed in the matrix", so, i guess it's ok to cast "steeldance" in the matrix. You experience players may see something that i dont..

2)what's exactly is happening???
"steeldance" is being cast on 2 daggers (errata erase the word "swords" from the Target of the spell), so, lets say, i cast "spell matrix" and then "steeldance" while holding the daggers and focusing on them. Since i cast "steeldance in the matrix, the spell is not activated, so lets say, i throw the daggers down (just to make it easier for now). 10 mins later, i decide to activate the spell "steeldance" from the matrix (swift action).
a) Do i have to take the daggers again and focus on them again (since i supposed cast the spell again)?
b) Do the daggers start their "dance" immediately (since i already focussed on them when i cast the spell in the matrix)?
c) anything else???

Before you say no to (b) and yes to (a), think about spell with Materials. Do i have to spend the materials twice, since i cast the spell twice (one time when i store it and another time when i activate it from the matrix)?

thx!!

[Venger]

Hello, im new in the forum, greetings to all.
My question is, if i can cast "steeldance" in a "spell matrix" (both in "spell compendium"), and if i can, what's exactly is happening (have to do). I will explain below.

1) can i cast it?
the only restriction i found is that "Only a spell that can be altered by the Quicken Spell feat can be placed in the matrix", so, i guess it's ok to cast "steeldance" in the matrix. You experience players may see something that i dont..

2)what's exactly is happening???
"steeldance" is being cast on 2 daggers (errata erase the word "swords" from the Target of the spell), so, lets say, i cast "spell matrix" and then "steeldance" while holding the daggers and focusing on them. Since i cast "steeldance in the matrix, the spell is not activated, so lets say, i throw the daggers down (just to make it easier for now). 10 mins later, i decide to activate the spell "steeldance" from the matrix (swift action).
a) Do i have to take the daggers again and focus on them again (since i supposed cast the spell again)?
b) Do the daggers start their "dance" immediately (since i already focussed on them when i cast the spell in the matrix)?
c) anything else???

Before you say no to (b) and yes to (a), think about spell with Materials. Do i have to spend the materials twice, since i cast the spell twice (one time when i store it and another time when i activate it from the matrix)?

thx!!

1) yes. steeldance is a standard action, so can be quickened. it's a valid target.
2) a) yes, since they need to be out to hit enemies. you don't need to "focus on" them, just have them out, since you already cast the spell
b) yes
c) no

if casting a spell with a material component, which steeldance doesn't have (say, false life) would not require you to spend components twice. you spent them already in the round after casting spell matrix, so you don't need to do it again.

[ps377]

actually my option (b) should be defined better, so i change it to: "Do the daggers start their "dance" immediately from the ground where i drop them (since i already focussed on them when i cast the spell in the matrix)?"

and i guess, since you answered yes on (a), then (b) is no?

[Venger]

actually my option (b) should be defined better, so i change it to: "Do the daggers start their "dance" immediately from the ground where i drop them (since i already focussed on them when i cast the spell in the matrix)?"

and i guess, since you answered yes on (a), then (b) is no?


I was confused by your phrasing of your question. here is what happens:

you spend a standard to cast spell matrix. the round after, you cast steeldance as a standard by having your two bladed weapons nearby (though not in your hands of course, since you need at least 1 hand to spells with somatic components, which steeldance has) it is stored in the spell matrix.

at any time later within 10 minutes/caster level, you are entitled to turn steeldance back on by spending a swift to open the spell matrix.

since steeldance does not carry any special ability to spirit the swords out of your bag of holding or whatever, you'd need to at least have line of sight to them and have them be within range (medium) of you. however, you wouldn't need to "focus on them" (by which I assume you meant spend a standard recasting the spell) to use it again

so to recap:

1) spell matrix as standard
2) steeldance as standard
3) later, spell matrix as swift triggers steeldance
4) follow rules of steeldance as normal

does this answer your question?

[Deophaun]

Targets for spells are determined when the spell goes into effect, not when the spell is cast. This is important, as it would severely limit the general usefulness of spell matrix if you had to determine the area for your fireball ahead of time (although it would definitely open up some creative possibilities). So, when you first cast steeldance into the spell matrix, there are no targets. It only has targets when it comes into effect after you cast it as a swift action via spell matrix.

Also, note that the focus daggers required for casting do not necessarily have to be the targets of the spell.

[Venger]

Targets for spells are determined when the spell goes into effect, not when the spell is cast. This is important, as it would severely limit the general usefulness of spell matrix if you had to determine the area for your fireball ahead of time (although it would definitely open up some creative possibilities). So, when you first cast steeldance into the spell matrix, there are no targets. It only has targets when it comes into effect after you cast it as a swift action via spell matrix.

Also, note that the focus daggers required for casting do not necessarily have to be the targets of the spell.

while you are correct about the target not needing to be present at the time of casting, the focus does need to be present when you cast the spell. in this instance, the focus and target are the same thing. steeldance is an oddball that way.

[Deophaun]

while you are correct about the target not needing to be present at the time of casting, the focus does need to be present when you cast the spell.
That's great. It contradicts nothing I said.

in this instance, the focus and target are the same thing. steeldance is an oddball that way.
No, they are not. "that are the targets of steeldance" is not a clause found under the Focus section of the steeldance entry, nor is there a general rule that requires a focus be the target of the spell. Ergo, the focus daggers used to cast the spell and the daggers targeted need not be the same.

Edit: In fact, according to the errata, you can still use two longswords or two axes as a focus, as it didn't touch that part, only the target line.

[Venger]

That's great. It contradicts nothing I said.

No, they are not. "that are the targets of steeldance" is not a clause found under the Focus section of the steeldance entry, nor is there a general rule that requires a focus be the target of the spell. Ergo, the focus daggers used to cast the spell and the daggers targeted need not be the same.

Edit: In fact, according to the errata, you can still use two longswords or two axes as a focus, as it didn't touch that part, only the target line.

whoops! I'm wrong about the focus and target being the same,that's all me

but I think what he was asking is "do I need LOE to the swords I want as a target for steeldance when I trigger spell matrix"

I'm unaware of a specific exception to the general rule in this instance. that's what I meant the answer was yes to

[Deophaun]

but I think what he was asking is "do I need LOE to the swords I want as a target for steeldance when I trigger spell matrix"

I'm unaware of a specific exception to the general rule in this instance. that's what I meant the answer was yes to
That is correct. He will need LoE to the target daggers (because it was hit by errata and so swords are now out, to my great world-shattering disappointment) when the spell comes into effect through spell matrix.

[ps377]

So, just to sum it up. Do i have to hold the daggers when activating "steeldance" from "spell matrix" or i can have them on the ground or in my belt?


(because it was hit by errata and so swords are now out, to my great world-shattering disappointment)

Noone said you can't use colossal size daggers :tongue: