XCOM Enemy unknown

[The_Admiral]

Sorry I could not find the original thread.

I have FINALLY gotten my grubby hands on a copy of this game, and it is AWESOME!


http://static.tumblr.com/a6cc042702240e4c9884a1f1bb7b587a/gszwcyh/SKOmg6b5l/tumblr_static_awesome.png


Random fact.

The random nickname generator just gave me a Sniper/Assault team with the nicknames Zero and Zilch respectively.

[BRC]

I once had a Assault/Sniper team nicknamed Alpha and Omega (Okay, I changed the Assault's nickname to fit, but I still liked it)

Note when you're leveling up your snipers. When I first played I was seduced by the idea of Snap Shot and Damn Good Ground.
Never take those abilities. Snipers with Squadsight can cover a massive swathe of the map, and with Gunslinger (And fully upgraded pistols) their pistols can be on par with same-tier assault rifles.

Push your Infrastructure early on. Get Satellites early so you can save countries from dropping out. There is basically no reason to launch a Satellite before the end of the month.

Live Capture give you research credits, which really speed things up. Also you can get some Plasma guns.

Oh, and don't be seduced by the higher damage/crit of Shotguns. A Shotgun Assault is very good in a limited number of situations. I'm playing a second wave game (Random stats), and I give all my high-Aim Assault soldiers Rifles. A Rifle assault is one of the most versatile things in the game, since they can get into position from basically anywhere on the map.

[The_Admiral]

Wow thanks.

Right now, I just got a Heavy named Ahmed.

I have taken to calling him, Ahmed the competent counter-terrorist.

I really need to get those sats up.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Shotgun Assaults can be quite good. It is true that they're limited in range, but you do always have a pistol (with no reload). It's really a matter of how good you are at positioning, what map it is, and how willing you are to treat your Assaults like glass cannons. There's also the fact that send one too far forward to get a good shot, and you'll probably trigger another group of aliens on the higher difficulties (a sure thing on Impossible). Still, very good for sweeping buildings, or dealing with those Chryssalids that act really dumb and use double move getting right up to you.

Still, Rifle Assaults are a more generally useful trooper.

Also, go to Steam, get the original for five bucks. Very different game, much better, if really tedious (it's basically a combination of micromanagement and just waiting for stuff to get finished. This holds true in both the geoscape and the battlescape). It's longer. You don't just use the next tier of guns as soon as they become available (all ballistic weapons besides the rocket launcher, grenade, stun rod, and high explosive become worthless upon researching and manufacturing laser pistols and rifles, but plasmas don't make lasers obsolete. Especially against sectopods). You can build more bases. Aliens build bases. Aliens try to find and assault your base if you get too good at shooting down UFOs. All UFOs can be detected and shot down, even terror ships. Ultimately, it feels a lot less gamey.

[Impnemo]

All UFOs can be detected and shot down, even terror ships.

This much, at least, can be changed. You can set the game in an ini file to allow you to detect and intercept all UFOs if you wish. Its been a bit since I played actually, but as I recall, because of the way the doom clock system works this can tweak the difficulty a bit, up if youre not able to scramble enough interception to take everything down, early game mostly, and negates it almost entirely later on once you can. Of course, the clock itself can be tweaked a bit to compensate - and now were just going down the path to madness.


Unless you're playing the console version. In which case, neener neener.:smalltongue:

[BRC]

Shotgun Assaults can be quite good. It is true that they're limited in range, but you do always have a pistol (with no reload). It's really a matter of how good you are at positioning, what map it is, and how willing you are to treat your Assaults like glass cannons. There's also the fact that send one too far forward to get a good shot, and you'll probably trigger another group of aliens on the higher difficulties (a sure thing on Impossible). Still, very good for sweeping buildings, or dealing with those Chryssalids that act really dumb and use double move getting right up to you.

Still, Rifle Assaults are a more generally useful trooper.

Also, go to Steam, get the original for five bucks. Very different game, much better, if really tedious (it's basically a combination of micromanagement and just waiting for stuff to get finished. This holds true in both the geoscape and the battlescape). It's longer. You don't just use the next tier of guns as soon as they become available (all ballistic weapons besides the rocket launcher, grenade, stun rod, and high explosive become worthless upon researching and manufacturing laser pistols and rifles, but plasmas don't make lasers obsolete. Especially against sectopods). You can build more bases. Aliens build bases. Aliens try to find and assault your base if you get too good at shooting down UFOs. All UFOs can be detected and shot down, even terror ships. Ultimately, it feels a lot less gamey.
Shotgun assaults have their uses. A Shotgun Assault with Run and Gun and Double Shot can reliably drop just about anything short of a Sectopod in one turn. They're perfect when you have a tricky muton is a good position taking potshots at you, or when a pack of 'lids shows up out of nowhere.
However, in most situations, by the time your Shotgunner gets into position, an assault rifle trooper could have taken down the baddie without breaking cover.

[Reynard]

Shotgun assaults are useful when doing the various Plot-Progression missions and on the larger ships. Generally you only want one, but having someone that can kill very close and very big things in one turn can be invaluable.

And once you have Alloy Cannons and an Assault with the +Crit Damage (Not Chance) abilities, their one-turn one-kill range can almost include Sectopods. And if the squad can see enough aliens, will include Sectopods.

[Zevox]

And once you have Alloy Cannons and an Assault with the +Crit Damage (Not Chance) abilities, their one-turn one-kill range can almost include Sectopods. And if the squad can see enough aliens, will include Sectopods.
Just give them Ghost Armor. Cloak gives you an auto-crit. Only applies to the first shot if you use rapid fire, but still, it's an auto-crit.

Yeah, with that, they can one-turn-kill Sectopods from close range, no "almost" to it.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Shotgun assaults are useful when doing the various Plot-Progression missions and on the larger ships. Generally you only want one, but having someone that can kill very close and very big things in one turn can be invaluable.

Yeah, that's the other thing. Keep a shotgun for whatever tech level you're at in reserve, for Alien Base Assault, Battleship, and maybe Temple Ship.

In addition, by the time you get Alloy Cannon, you can get all three Foundry upgrades for the pistol. At that point, you basically have a guy with a Light Plasma Rifle (with no reloading) and an Alloy Cannon.

[Reynard]

Just give them Ghost Armor. Cloak gives you an auto-crit. Only applies to the first shot if you use rapid fire, but still, it's an auto-crit.

Yeah, with that, they can one-turn-kill Sectopods from close range, no "almost" to it.

This is why I specified the Crit damage boosts, but I've had Sectopods survive an invisible Shotty Assault unloading on them, if that Sectopod was the only thing the squad could see.

Even then, though, It's not much of a problem to clean up, since if a shotgun assault managed to get that close and not trigger a billion aliens, then anyone can just run up and pop it for it's last two health.

[shadow_archmagi]

I feel like the weird "triggering" nature of aliens is one of the game's biggest flaws because it limits your mobility in what feels like a really arbitrary manner.

[BRC]

I feel like the weird "triggering" nature of aliens is one of the game's biggest flaws because it limits your mobility in what feels like a really arbitrary manner.

Yeah, I mean it works, but it encourages some weird stuff in battle where you deliberately try to minimize how much of the map you can see in order to avoid triggering groups. Mind you, I can't really think of a better way to handle it. One of the big problems with classic Xcom was that maps were HUGE, so there might be three sectoids scattered around a massive farm, and most turns were spent just trying to find them rather than actually fighting.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Yeah, I mean it works, but it encourages some weird stuff in battle where you deliberately try to minimize how much of the map you can see in order to avoid triggering groups. Mind you, I can't really think of a better way to handle it. One of the big problems with classic Xcom was that maps were HUGE, so there might be three sectoids scattered around a massive farm, and most turns were spent just trying to find them rather than actually fighting.

Realistically though, original X-COM maps were really tiny. I mean, from one end to the other... might be a couple hundred yards? Yeah. A trained human eye can spot moving targets at three times that distance (just look at some of Dslyecxi's ShackTac vids sometime), especially something like a Reaper or Sectopod. If you have binocs, it's even farther, albeit with no peripheral vision.

Don't get me wrong, original X-COM combat was tedious as hell (do you know how long it takes just to move up ten soldiers after the tank's scouted and a smoke grenade was tossed? And to sweep out buildings and Battleships?), but it was still better than this.

[BRC]

I actually like New Xcom's combat better. While the tension was much higher, classic Xcom could feel very tedious. "Sigh, time to spend an hour walking through farms looking for the three aliens that are out there somewhere". With New Xcom you are at least actually fighting most of the time.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I actually like New Xcom's combat better. While the tension was much higher, classic Xcom could feel very tedious. "Sigh, time to spend an hour walking through farms looking for the three aliens that are out there somewhere". With New Xcom you are at least actually fighting most of the time.

Oh god, it is. Once, I attacked, like... a landed large scout, I think (I really needed Elerium, I had only been attacking crashed ships), with Ethereals. And the last guy was like, the leader or something, and I had to sweep the entire area (I actually forget where the hell I found him, he was such a slippery little bastard), while most of my guys were either panicking, berserking, or getting MC'd. So I had like three functional troopers to sweep out the ship, and a hovertank and a couple other troopers in the surrounding area.

[shadow_archmagi]

I thoroughly enjoyed both games. Old Xcom and new Xcom are both tedious- Old because you're forced to search for an hour for that last little bastard, New because on Impossible you're forced to sit for an hour and wait for the enemy to come to you, because advancing is death.

[Hiro Protagonest]

New because on Impossible you're forced to sit for an hour and wait for the enemy to come to you, because advancing is death.

Beaglerush's XCOM II (not a number) playthrough is going fairly well with a follow-the-leader advance system. He lost the first game, but he still did good (it was really the fact that he still thinks you have to beat the clock to save as many civies as possible in terror missions that doomed him. No Beagle, if you want, you can move your guys to save individual civies as long as you have the rest of the squad either go that way too or stay in position, but do not start rushing just because you'll lose some points if you go slow. The mission does not end if all civies die, it's not the bomb defusion mission).

[BRC]

My Ideal Xcom game would have the Overworld of Xcom Classic, with the Combat of New Xcom, perhaps slightly more complicated Alien behaviors. I would like it if Aliens were actually DOING things during the Abduction missions, rather than just sitting around waiting to be shot at. Maybe some of them form a defensive perimeter, while Others are setting up bombs, or prepping prisoners for transport. Eventually you could have Aliens who fake Abduction operations in order to lie in wait for an Ambush. I also wouldn't mind different types of aliens of the same species, you know have Sectoid Engineers as well as Sectoid Soldiers. Make it look like the Aliens are actually doing something, rather than just showing up waiting to be shot.

Edit: I also really like the idea of them Embracing emergent events influencing the Soldier's stats.

For example, a soldier who dodges lots of reaction shots may pick up the "Reckless" trait, giving them an extra defense against Reaction Shots. Two soldiers who fight side by side may end up forming a bond, gaining a Will bonus if they are near each other. An opposite may be a "Rivalry" Trait. If two soldiers have a Rivalry then they have increased accuracy when near each other, as each strives to outdo the other.

A Soldier who Panics when they see a Chryssalid kill their teammate may acquire the "Phobia: Chryssilid" trait, making them more likely to panic. However, if they kill a 'Lid, then they may overcome their fear and gain the "Bug Stomper" Trait, less chance to panic, and more damage against 'Lids.
One of the best parts of Xcom is how the procedural events of the game allow the player to create their own stories, I think more could be done to encourage that.

I also saw some early Concept art, where Soldier's appearances changed as they leveled up. They had a Rookie looking fresh from boot camp, and later a Captain with scars on his face, beat up armor, and some sort of trophy.

Other things I would add.

Posthumous Promotions for dead Soldiers.

Special Commendations for Soldiers. Some of these may be awarded automatically (Such as if the soldier in question was gravely wounded in a fight, or for getting X kills in a single engagement), however others are generic awards for Valor.
As a Commander you can award Commendations to your soldiers as you see fit, providing a bonus. However, the more you award Commendations, the more they are devalued, especially if you award them to a Soldier with an especially unimpressive record.

[Talanic]

I recall one Classic X-Com mission that lasted for all of my play time for two days. I eventually figured out that the last sectoid on the terror mission was up in a tower and the stairs had been blown up. I think I had to grenade him.

I can't help but think that the new X-Com would make a good jumping off point for a 4x game. Think about it - Earth has captured ships and technology for taking over the solar system, but has no means of acquiring Elerium in our solar system, so the elerium stockpiles can either be used to spread to nearby stars or held to power the weapons that you can't run any other way. You have to deal with scavenger races that prey upon whatever's left when the Ethereals left, as well as others out there, including the implied people who exiled the Ethereals we met in-game.

[Dragonus45]

My Ideal Xcom game would have the Overworld of Xcom Classic, with the Combat of New Xcom, perhaps slightly more complicated Alien behaviors. I would like it if Aliens were actually DOING things during the Abduction missions, rather than just sitting around waiting to be shot at. Maybe some of them form a defensive perimeter, while Others are setting up bombs, or prepping prisoners for transport. Eventually you could have Aliens who fake Abduction operations in order to lie in wait for an Ambush. I also wouldn't mind different types of aliens of the same species, you know have Sectoid Engineers as well as Sectoid Soldiers. Make it look like the Aliens are actually doing something, rather than just showing up waiting to be shot.

Edit: I also really like the idea of them Embracing emergent events influencing the Soldier's stats.

For example, a soldier who dodges lots of reaction shots may pick up the "Reckless" trait, giving them an extra defense against Reaction Shots. Two soldiers who fight side by side may end up forming a bond, gaining a Will bonus if they are near each other. An opposite may be a "Rivalry" Trait. If two soldiers have a Rivalry then they have increased accuracy when near each other, as each strives to outdo the other.

A Soldier who Panics when they see a Chryssalid kill their teammate may acquire the "Phobia: Chryssilid" trait, making them more likely to panic. However, if they kill a 'Lid, then they may overcome their fear and gain the "Bug Stomper" Trait, less chance to panic, and more damage against 'Lids.
One of the best parts of Xcom is how the procedural events of the game allow the player to create their own stories, I think more could be done to encourage that.

I also saw some early Concept art, where Soldier's appearances changed as they leveled up. They had a Rookie looking fresh from boot camp, and later a Captain with scars on his face, beat up armor, and some sort of trophy.

Other things I would add.

Posthumous Promotions for dead Soldiers.

Special Commendations for Soldiers. Some of these may be awarded automatically (Such as if the soldier in question was gravely wounded in a fight, or for getting X kills in a single engagement), however others are generic awards for Valor.
As a Commander you can award Commendations to your soldiers as you see fit, providing a bonus. However, the more you award Commendations, the more they are devalued, especially if you award them to a Soldier with an especially unimpressive record.

Dear lord thos ideas sound so amazing, i would love to see that done. I've seen that the game has a somewhat emergent modding community? Any chance any of those ideas could ever be implemented.

[chiasaur11]

Rifle assaults are for Jacobites and the Welsh. An assault and his or her shotgun is a sacred bond that should be restored as soon as you have the appropriate tech.

The aim bonus for a shotgun means they can bag and tag anything they get close to, run and gun means they get close to anything, and their whole skill tree is filled with ways to survive even in the worst circumstances. Live fast, die young, leave an unidentifiable corpse.

[Dragonus45]

Rifle assaults are for Jacobites and the Welsh. An assault and his or her shotgun is a sacred bond that should be restored as soon as you have the appropriate tech.

The aim bonus for a shotgun means they can bag and tag anything they get close to, run and gun means they get close to anything, and their whole skill tree is filled with ways to survive even in the worst circumstances. Live fast, die young, leave an army of unidentifiable alien corpses where you fall.

Seems like there was an obvious addition to be had there :smallbiggrin:

[BRC]

Rifle assaults are for Jacobites and the Welsh. An assault and his or her shotgun is a sacred bond that should be restored as soon as you have the appropriate tech.

The aim bonus for a shotgun means they can bag and tag anything they get close to, run and gun means they get close to anything, and their whole skill tree is filled with ways to survive even in the worst circumstances. Live fast, die young, leave an unidentifiable corpse.

Yes but when you're playing Second Wave, and you keep getting Squaddie Assaults with 80 Aim, it seems a little silly to have them charge in like barbarians in order to fire at close range.

[chiasaur11]

Yes but when you're playing Second Wave, and you keep getting Squaddie Assaults with 80 Aim, it seems a little silly to have them charge in like barbarians in order to fire at close range.

My best assault had less aim than that as a colonel. 3 extra move, though. He couldn't hit anything at range, and the aliens couldn't hit him at all. Callsign, "Twitch" and man. He earned it.

[Anarion]

Yes but when you're playing Second Wave, and you keep getting Squaddie Assaults with 80 Aim, it seems a little silly to have them charge in like barbarians in order to fire at close range.

I'm not sure how the second wave variations change things (I don't recall that much aim variety in the non-modded game), but I love shotgun assaults personally. First off, if you're not playing on impossible, it doesn't matter because you can do any reasonable combination of troops and be fine, so whatever is most fun for you individually, just do that.

On impossible, you don't really want to be positioning for long-range fire because the aliens are always better than you except for snipers. Early on, you need to move up for grenades anyway, and maps become focused on critical points like doors, blind corners, and hard cover. In these situations, a shotgun assault is incredibly powerful, providing the accuracy and stopping power for consistent kills.

Sitting back with assault rifle guys can be a problem if the enemy takes up overwatch positions out of your sight and refuses to budge, and once you have to run up and draw fire anyway, the shotgun again becomes the superior option.

[BRC]

I'm not sure how the second wave variations change things (I don't recall that much aim variety in the non-modded game), but I love shotgun assaults personally. First off, if you're not playing on impossible, it doesn't matter because you can do any reasonable combination of troops and be fine, so whatever is most fun for you individually, just do that.

On impossible, you don't really want to be positioning for long-range fire because the aliens are always better than you except for snipers. Early on, you need to move up for grenades anyway, and maps become focused on critical points like doors, blind corners, and hard cover. In these situations, a shotgun assault is incredibly powerful, providing the accuracy and stopping power for consistent kills.

Sitting back with assault rifle guys can be a problem if the enemy takes up overwatch positions out of your sight and refuses to budge, and once you have to run up and draw fire anyway, the shotgun again becomes the superior option.

Meanwhile a Rifle Assault can zip away from halfway across the map, take up a position in cover, and rapid fire an enemy to death without exposing themselves. They can hold their own in close quarters (not as good as a Shotgun I admit), while still remaining useful in more open areas. When Second Wave gives you assault troopers with insanely high Aim, they can reliably pick enemies out of cover.

[shadow_archmagi]

I didn't realize how brutal the Second Wave option that makes it so your guys lose accuracy as they get hurt is. Wow.

First mission where Mutons show up, everyone is already injured. No one can hit them.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I didn't realize how brutal the Second Wave option that makes it so your guys lose accuracy as they get hurt is. Wow.

That's what happened in the first game.

Then again, I never noticed the difference (the aliens also have crap aim, I saw it through the Mind Probe. I think my version still has the difficulty bug. Does going to the files of the Steam version, clicking on the "UFO Defense Patched.exe" thing with the stylized sun picture, and just using that fix the bug? Or do I need mods?).

[shadow_archmagi]

That's what happened in the first game.

Then again, I never noticed the difference (the aliens also have crap aim, I saw it through the Mind Probe. I think my version still has the difficulty bug. Does going to the files of the Steam version, clicking on the "UFO Defense Patched.exe" thing with the stylized sun picture, and just using that fix the bug? Or do I need mods?).

Yeah, but in the first game I had eight more rookies to absorb bullets. I also fired about ten times as many shots, so things died sooner or later.

[Anarion]

Meanwhile a Rifle Assault can zip away from halfway across the map, take up a position in cover, and rapid fire an enemy to death without exposing themselves. They can hold their own in close quarters (not as good as a Shotgun I admit), while still remaining useful in more open areas. When Second Wave gives you assault troopers with insanely high Aim, they can reliably pick enemies out of cover.

It sounds like second wave makes a huge difference then. In unmodded impossible, those long-range assaults are not really going to do better than a 70% hit chance before rapid fire if you're not flanking (and that assumes several promotions, a new squaddie is more like 50%), and it's usually quite hard to get a long range flank without triggering another enemy group. Having a trooper with 20 more aim completely changes that calculus.


Yeah, but in the first game I had eight more rookies to absorb bullets. I also fired about ten times as many shots, so things died sooner or later.

:xykon: Sacrificing minions. Is there any problem it can't solve?

[The_Admiral]

I have run tests and I feel like shotgun assaults are the superior choice.

Mainly cause I generally give them the Arc Throwers.

I shotgunned a muton and then used my heavy to zap him in the face with the Arc.

[iyaerP]

You only ever need arc throwers like once for each lifeform though. And given the horrible HORRIBLE funding system that the new game has, I never had the money to produce the random crappy items that interrogations of the various aliems unlocked to see if they were worth anything.

[BRC]

You only ever need arc throwers like once for each lifeform though. And given the horrible HORRIBLE funding system that the new game has, I never had the money to produce the random crappy items that interrogations of the various aliems unlocked to see if they were worth anything.

You're supposed to be underfunded, but I could still build stuff. The trick is to be strategic with your sattilites, and don't be squeamish about using the Grey Market. I kind of miss being able to build and sell Laser Cannons, but I didn't find the new funding system tall that bad.

Also, a big use of Arc Throwers is to get free guns. Bring Arc Throwers on council missions to snag Thin Men, then once you research Light Plasma Rifles you can equip your entire squad with looted weapons. It's a little harder to get Plasma Rifles from Mutons and Heavy Floaters, but still doable.

[Destro_Yersul]

Interrogations get you research credits, which are insanely useful. It's autopsies that unlock items/foundry projects. As for the usefulness thereof...

Thin Men unlock Improved Medkits, which is great. Floaters, Sectoids and Cyberdiscs unlock interceptor boosting items, which are alright, but usually unnecessary. Berserkers unlock combat stims, which are sub-par as accessories go. Mutons get you the ammo conservation foundry project which, again, is stupidly useful. Elite Mutons actually get you a research credit. Drones get you Drone Capture, I think, which is useless. Sectoid commander gets you the Psilabs, which is needed to complete the game. Heavy Floaters and Sectopods get you Advanced Repair and Advanced Construction respectively, neither of which is especially great by the time you have them. Chryssalids get you Chitin Plating, which is a better version of the nano-fiber vest, though limited in utility. Outsiders can't be autopsied.

Ethereals get you Mind Shields, which are one of the better accessories end-game.

[iyaerP]

Yeah, I sold everything I didn't NEED, was stingy as hell with satalites, using htem only if a country had 4/5 terror or more, and did everything I could to maximize profitability, but when a SINGLE piece of equipment or an upgrade can take my entire monthly budget as perscribed by the council, then yeah, funding is a problem. Like I was never even able to try using the tanks because I could never afford to get them in the first place, nevermind upgrading them to be on par with my super-soldiers. I ended up selling every single thing I had left form the previous crash site just so I could scrape togeather enough cash to build the psy armour for the final mission unlock.

[Destro_Yersul]

Yeah, I sold everything I didn't NEED, was stingy as hell with satalites, using htem only if a country had 4/5 terror or more, and did everything I could to maximize profitability, but when a SINGLE piece of equipment or an upgrade can take my entire monthly budget as perscribed by the council, then yeah, funding is a problem. Like I was never even able to try using the tanks because I could never afford to get them in the first place, nevermind upgrading them to be on par with my super-soldiers. I ended up selling every single thing I had left form the previous crash site just so I could scrape togeather enough cash to build the psy armour for the final mission unlock.

There's yer problem. The more satellites you have launched, the bigger your monthly funding from the council. Getting all three satellites over Africa, or starting there, helps a good bit, too. Satellite launches only reduce panic by 2, so it's better to use them when countries are at panic 3. What difficulty were you playing on? I did a run on Classic, and by the end of it I was damn near swimming in money...

[BRC]

It's usually best to save a few Satelites for stopping council nations from leaving, but you can pick up a couple big spender countries like the US or Russia.

Tip: If you have to choose between two abduction missions where the one you ignore will hit 5 panic, answer the abduction in the country that gives LESS funding. Then throw a sattelite at the other one, you keep both nations, but get the higher funding bonus.
I'm not sure how a single piece of gear would take your entire budget.

Mind you, I play Classic mode, using a good deal of save scumming. Part of your funding is how well you do, if you're Ironmanning then you fail more missions and your funding goes down.

[Jonzac]

Best option for satalittes is to put down enough to cover an entire continent at once. Once the satalites are up then there are no more abductions in that country...so if you cover all of Africa for example, then the panic in those wont go up from abductions..only failed UFO shootdowns.

but if you leave one country open and you don't take it you raise the panic level in countries THAT HAVE A SATALITE...and you can lose them even with a satallite parked over them.

[iyaerP]

Yeah, I lost Egypt way early on due to a catch .22 choice between it and china or something. So I never got the africa bonus.

[BRC]

Yeah, I lost Egypt way early on due to a catch .22 choice between it and china or something. So I never got the africa bonus.

If you're not doing the tutorial, Africa is the best place to start, since it means you can get that +30% funding bonus from day 1 without wasting three sats on low spender countries.

[Hiro Protagonest]

If you're not doing the tutorial, Africa is the best place to start, since it means you can get that +30% funding bonus from day 1 without wasting three sats on low spender countries.

Eh, I like Asia. Both the Training School and the Foundry have really useful stuff, and Africa is three sats to get the bonus (although you might be better off just putting them over US, Russia, and one of the other top spenders. But then, if you have the African bonus, I think total funding increases 30%. Someone do the numbers). Plus, you get China and Japan, which are awesome just for fluff reasons (they're rising stars in the tech department, and with Japan's small standing army, it can afford to spend a lot of money on research. Who knows what they've got in their top-secret military labs?).

It might be better to go Africa though. Get a sat over US in the first month, boom. Lots of money.

[BRC]

Eh, I like Asia. Both the Training School and the Foundry have really useful stuff, and Africa is three sats to get the bonus (although you might be better off just putting them over US, Russia, and one of the other top spenders. But then, if you have the African bonus, I think total funding increases 30%. Someone do the numbers). Plus, you get China and Japan, which are awesome just for fluff reasons (they're rising stars in the tech department, and with Japan's small standing army, it can afford to spend a lot of money on research. Who knows what they've got in their top-secret military labs?).

It might be better to go Africa though. Get a sat over US in the first month, boom. Lots of money.

Having the extra cash in the early months really helps though.

Of course, playing Second Wave: The New Economy totally changes up the equation.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I am a big fan of starting in China and trying to put a sat over all of South America by the end of the first month. Sure, they aren't big spenders, but early-game is when South America's bonuses come in most handy. Then I try to go for Europe, starting with Russia, to make up for that lack, and for more research.

Sure, it's quirky, not many people like bothering with South America, but it's only two sats, so not a huge investment, and really is handy early-game.

I'll be honest, I don't generally do much with North America, except to prevent with withdrawal, until I can 'level the playing field', so to speak. I tend to go aircraft-light early-game, only getting a single interceptor per continent, until I can get the upgraded ones.

But yea... I'd much rather use Arc Throwers to grab new toys, that way I only have to build the sniper(s) and heavies their guns. Heck, you can get Plasma Pistols from Sectoids, which makes a Sniper with Marksman quite lethal even when he does have to move. Too bad you still have to research it before you can equip it, though.

[Destro_Yersul]

In my run South America was pretty much necessary. The game screwed me in the scientist department, so without "We Have Ways" it was four or five days for a bloody autopsy. Starting in North America isn't too bad, since without the second wave stuff the USA is the biggest income, at 180 spacebucks a month. With a second satellite in Canada (if you do the tutorial), or even if you don't, really, that's $280 a month plus 2 scientists and 2 engineers. I forget which country you start with in Africa, but if it's Nigeria (100 a month) and you drop a satellite on the US as soon as possible, you end up with 364 a month from "All In." You lose out a little on scientists and engineers, though.

South America is probably the worst starting location, but one of the better ones to drop spare satellites early on. You only need two of them to get the bonus, and it'll speed up your overall research by up to a month, if you're unlucky.

[Ailurus]

Also, a big use of Arc Throwers is to get free guns. Bring Arc Throwers on council missions to snag Thin Men, then once you research Light Plasma Rifles you can equip your entire squad with looted weapons. It's a little harder to get Plasma Rifles from Mutons and Heavy Floaters, but still doable.

This. I still don't recommend focusing on arcing, but I usually bring one along (especially once I have a Support soldier with deep pockets) in case something does get vulnerable. Plus, though its a minor point, arced thin men don't explode into their poison cloud.

As for the satellites, my priorities are generally as follows
- build as many as possible, and sit on them until the end of the month. Then
0) Any nations that are about to quit
1) US, unless I started there (canada and mexico can wait though)
2) Africa unless I started there
3) South America (just cause its easy to get)
4) Finish North America
5) Asia
6) Europe

And, unless there's a bonus I really want, I tend to do prioritize abductions in reverse order. Focusing on Europe and Asia, letting the satellites take care of SA and Africa (since, as Jonzac said, once the net's complete for a continent the abductions there stop. And once a continent is covered, you don't need to worry about multiple operations at once there)

[Zid]

Two questions:

1) Are Chryssalids immune to stun?

2) Would anyone be interested in a LP of XCOM in the style of Chisaur´s classic XCOM LP, or has it already been done?

[Ishikar]

Two questions:

1) Are Chryssalids immune to stun?

2) Would anyone be interested in a LP of XCOM in the style of Chisaur´s classic XCOM LP, or has it already been done?

1) Yes they are immune to stun. I found this out the hard way and almost lost one of my top tier assault units because of it (Min damage left 2 HP and a VERY fast run back next turn).

2) Chisaur really made something amazing with that LP and the odd bits of forum involvement (side-stories, comics) really brought it to life. I still laugh every time I think about the Tengu_Temp bits. I mean what kind of weak willed nobody would you have to be to be brain- All Glory to the Tengu_Temp!:smallamused:

[shadow_archmagi]

Two questions:

1) Are Chryssalids immune to stun?

2) Would anyone be interested in a LP of XCOM in the style of Chisaur´s classic XCOM LP, or has it already been done?

Yes to question 1.

To question 2, I can say that I livestreamed XCOM right after it came out and that seemed well received.



Regarding starting locations:

I find that starting in Africa is a good gig, because +30% money is a great gig but the countries of Africa themselves are not particularly valuable. Start in Africa, then immediately colonize Asia and South America.

[Krade]

My most recent playthrough (with ALL of the Second Wave options turned on), I started in Asia, got satelites over NA (erroneously believing it would reduce the cost of satelites. Don't know how I never noticed that was the case before.:smallannoyed:) and Europe, and never covered the rest of Asia and lost most of the countries in SA and Africa.

The Diminishing Returns option (each satelite gets more expensive) combined with the one that increases build/research times and cost of everything meant that at no point did I have enough money to build enough satelites. I finished the game with eight countries covered because even with selling everything I could (including things I shouldn't have), the cost was still prohibitive.

[Reynard]

My most recent playthrough (with ALL of the Second Wave options turned on), I started in Asia, got satelites over NA (erroneously believing it would reduce the cost of satelites. Don't know how I never noticed that was the case before.:smallannoyed:) and Europe, and never covered the rest of Asia and lost most of the countries in SA and Africa.

I think at one point during playtesting the NA bonus did apply to Satellites, but was rightly changed because it was too damn good.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

This. I still don't recommend focusing on arcing, but I usually bring one along (especially once I have a Support soldier with deep pockets) in case something does get vulnerable. Plus, though its a minor point, arced thin men don't explode into their poison cloud.

As for the satellites, my priorities are generally as follows
- build as many as possible, and sit on them until the end of the month. Then
0) Any nations that are about to quit
1) US, unless I started there (canada and mexico can wait though)
2) Africa unless I started there
3) South America (just cause its easy to get)
4) Finish North America
5) Asia
6) Europe


Getting as many sats as you can place (and building as many sat controls as you can afford) is essential. Sitting on them to the end of the month is also really good.

My system is to start Asia, grab the US and Russia ASAP, then Africa, then work on the rest of Europe and NA. I ignore South America and Asian countries that aren't China and Japan on the basis that, since I'm going to lose one to three contries in the first months, it might as well be countries that can't do as much for X-COM.

I may be undervaluing the South America bonus, but it really doesn't seem all that great. Early, there's maybe 3 or 5 autopsies that are absolutely needed (thin men, Mutons, couple of the Credit aliens). The rest can wait till whenever. Whenever being "I have enough scientists that autopsies take two days".

I should try Second Wave. Sounds like it really switches things up.

[Tengu_temp]

2) Chisaur really made something amazing with that LP and the odd bits of forum involvement (side-stories, comics) really brought it to life. I still laugh every time I think about the Tengu_Temp bits. I mean what kind of weak willed nobody would you have to be to be brain- All Glory to the Tengu_Temp!:smallamused:

Heh, I actually consider those parts kind of embarassing, since they make me look self-centered in a very immature, "kid drunk on his moment of fame" way. But people had fun with it, so it's okay.

And yes, that was one of my favorite text-based LPs ever. And I read quite a lot of those.

[shadow_archmagi]

I may be undervaluing the South America bonus, but it really doesn't seem all that great. Early, there's maybe 3 or 5 autopsies that are absolutely needed (thin men, Mutons, couple of the Credit aliens). The rest can wait till whenever. Whenever being "I have enough scientists that autopsies take two days"

The South America bonus would be a lot better if most of the autopsies did anything useful. The interrogations are really nice, but those usually don't really start happening until later on when you're feeling more secure.

Does anyone else find it hilarious that to apply medigel to itself, a medic just sprays wildly in a random direction?

[KillianHawkeye]

Does anyone else find it hilarious that to apply medigel to itself, a medic just sprays wildly in a random direction?

LOL. My guess is he's spraying it into the wind in the hopes that it blows back onto him. :smallamused:

[shadow_archmagi]

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=127406725


I think I did something to make this game hate me.

[Destro_Yersul]

What's funnier is the occasional glitch where soldiers decide to shoot the wrong way, or with the wrong gun. I once had a sniper running around using the pistol animation and stats with their full-sized rifle. It was highly amusing.

[Anarion]

My opinion is that it's all about starting in Africa and then letting Egypt go its own alien-loving way and good riddance to them.

Also autopsies are good because if you're really efficient you can actually beat the first large ship you fight (the abductor I think) using just the basic interceptor and the alien autopsy bonuses.

[Tengu_temp]

I consider the South America bonus to be worth next to nothing, not because the autopsy/interrogation bonuses suck (they tend to be pretty nice, in fact), but because the research on them takes a very short time anyway. You only save a couple days at most, and I almost never found myself in a situation where researching something a few days earlier would save my skin.

[Destro_Yersul]

I consider the South America bonus to be worth next to nothing, not because the autopsy/interrogation bonuses suck (they tend to be pretty nice, in fact), but because the research on them takes a very short time anyway. You only save a couple days at most, and I almost never found myself in a situation where researching something a few days earlier would save my skin.

You're lucky if they only take a couple days. I had one run where the game screwed me on scientists, and autopsies were a week each without the bonus.

[shadow_archmagi]

I consider the South America bonus to be worth next to nothing, not because the autopsy/interrogation bonuses suck (they tend to be pretty nice, in fact), but because the research on them takes a very short time anyway. You only save a couple days at most, and I almost never found myself in a situation where researching something a few days earlier would save my skin.

Well, with 8 interrogations and 12 autopsies, at 2 days each, that's more than a month saved, assuming that your science is high enough to do the research in 2 days.


I wonder if they'll do a terror from the deep remake next.

[Krade]

If you're playing with Marathon on (the Second Wave option), autopsies and interrogations take WAY longer than a couple days. If I ever go through with all those turned on again, I'm definitely starting in SA.

[Arbitrarity]

I wouldn't start there, but South America is a really nice early pickup, especially on Marathon. Ignore it on abductions, but you can pick it up easily.

Marathon runs seem difficult early, but snowball crazily after a while (like the rest of the game, but moreso) You want to sell all your Elerium and most of your Alloys for the first few months, which speeds up your economy so you only go a fair bit slower. My current (IC, marathon/not created equal/hidden potential/high stakes/absolutely critical) snowballed like this. I have ghost armor and plasma snipers with around 9 colonels, while the toughest thing I encounter is Mutons and Sectoid Commanders (courtesy of Alien Base). Presently checking for psi, and probably going to try for Lone Wolf (cleaning up 2 Sectoid Commanders isn't that bad when you're psionic; they can't raw MC you, so if you kill one, the other is pretty defenseless)

[Krade]

My current (IC, marathon/not created equal/hidden potential/high stakes/absolutely critical) snowballed like this.

How much do satelites cost with marathon and NOT diminishing returns? Because after I got 8 up, the next one cost over $4000. That right there is the main reason I never more than 8, finishing the game with only half the world covered.

Another question: How much does Diminishing Returns increase it WITHOUT also having marathon on?

[KillianHawkeye]

Even in a regular game, I think the South America bonus is worth something. Not a huge amount compared to the other continents, but it's handy to pick it up if you can.

Maybe that's just my playstyle, though. I don't really bother with building laboratories anymore. I feel like I'm lucky enough to be able to afford a few workshops most of the time.

Of course, that also depends on the difficulty setting. I built a few labs on my first successful playthrough, which was on Normal and starting in Europe, so I was doing better and they didn't cost as much as they do normally. With a lot of scientists and a few labs, you can still do autopsies/interrogations in 1-2 days, but if you're low on scientists and can't afford labs (like most of my games) the bonus can actually help you a lot depending on when you get it.

[Arbitrarity]

How much do satelites cost with marathon and NOT diminishing returns? Because after I got 8 up, the next one cost over $4000. That right there is the main reason I never more than 8, finishing the game with only half the world covered.

Another question: How much does Diminishing Returns increase it WITHOUT also having marathon on?

Haven't tried Diminishing Returns, but Marathon doubles facility build time/cost, doubles item cost, doubles infirmary time, triples research time. If you want to know Satellite without Marathon, it's just half whatever you're paying.

To abuse (get the most satellites cheap) Diminishing Returns, you want to build a TON of satellites at once. It'll take a long time to get capacity though... Lategame, you could also spam out Workshops for the huge rebate, but that doesn't help with initial cost much... (10 workshops gives 91% rebate when optimally placed).
Let's see, which continents to spend 8 sats on... 1 for Asia as base, 4 europe, 3 North America, maybe?

[Anarion]

To abuse (get the most satellites cheap) Diminishing Returns, you want to build a TON of satellites at once. It'll take a long time to get capacity though...

You don't need capacity to build satellites, at least in the normal game. You could build 20 satellites at once if you wanted, you just can't launch any that are above capacity.

[chiasaur11]

You don't need capacity to build satellites, at least in the normal game. You could build 20 satellites at once if you wanted, you just can't launch any that are above capacity.

Yup.

It's a smart play normally. With diminishing returns it's pretty much essential.

[The_Admiral]

Breaking news, I just got a female assault named,

Ashley Williams.

I am now wondering how to replace one of her arms with a chainsaw.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Breaking news, I just got a female assault named,

Ashley Williams.

I am now wondering how to replace one of her arms with a chainsaw.

I got an Assault named River. I'm debating between 'Song' or 'Tam' as her surname...

Somehow, I have a feeling she's going to end up in the Gallop Chamber...

[The_Admiral]

All the references seem to come from the assault class.

Also since she's Assault, give her Tam, Song is support.

[Maquise]

Right, so I have a question. Two actually:

1. Is it just me, or are most of the color schemes from the Elite Soldier pack ugly as all get-out?

2. Is there any real reason to get the fusion lance over the EMP cannon?

[shadow_archmagi]

2. Is there any real reason to get the fusion lance over the EMP cannon?

I can't confirm any of this, but I think that the fusion lance *might* inflict more structural damage to enemy craft, which would be beneficial *if* it had an impact on enemy crew sizes. I don't know if the game actually keeps track of that- The description of the EMP cannon suggests that it does, but developers often write descriptions that make it sound like they're simulating things they're not. However, were crew sizes smaller, that'd make missions shorter and safer, and increase the value of once-per-mission things like medkits and rockets (which are already pretty great)

[BRC]

I can't confirm any of this, but I think that the fusion lance *might* inflict more structural damage to enemy craft, which would be beneficial *if* it had an impact on enemy crew sizes. I don't know if the game actually keeps track of that- The description of the EMP cannon suggests that it does, but developers often write descriptions that make it sound like they're simulating things they're not. However, were crew sizes smaller, that'd make missions shorter and safer, and increase the value of once-per-mission things like medkits and rockets (which are already pretty great)

In Xcom Classic, shooting down a UFO meant you would find alien corpses, implying that some of the crew would be killed in the crash. Maybe they intended to build that into the game but never got around to it.

[Destro_Yersul]

It's cheaper, and it's got a longer range. I think the EMP cannon destroys less of the stuff in the enemy craft. If the game does keep track of damage and its impace on crew sizes, it could be that the lance deals more damage to the components and crew, while the EMP cannon leaves both untouched. Honestly, though, plasma cannons are good enough in most cases.

[Anarion]

Since the game does vary whether you get damaged vs. functional navigation computers and power sources, I think the fusion lance does increase the odds of you getting damaged parts compared to the EMP cannon. I can't tell if shooting down the same type of ship results in fewer aliens with one or the other, though. Maybe there's a higher chance of getting groups of two instead of three if you used the fusion lance?

[chiasaur11]

Breaking news, I just got a female assault named,

Ashley Williams.

I am now wondering how to replace one of her arms with a chainsaw.

Make sure to give her Female Voice 2.

[Avilan the Grey]

Breaking news, I just got a female assault named,

Ashley Williams.

I am now wondering how to replace one of her arms with a chainsaw.

Why? Ash never had a chainsaw. She killed Geth like nobody's business though!:smallbiggrin:

[Krade]

Make sure to give her Female Voice 2.

You know, I thought one of the voices sounded like her. Every time I heard it I made a little head-note to check out the VAs and then imediately forgot to actually do it.

[Cristo Meyers]

You know, I thought one of the voices sounded like her. Every time I heard it I made a little head-note to check out the VAs and then imediately forgot to actually do it.

Also, the XCOM A.I. is Courtney Taylor (Jack).

[shadow_archmagi]

Also, the XCOM A.I. is Courtney Taylor (Jack).

I *thought* she hated me. This explains so much.

[Avilan the Grey]

I *thought* she hated me. This explains so much.

Must be just you, though. I also thought I recognized the voice; and got happy feelings from it. But I absolutely LOVE Jack.

[Maquise]

Here's a question: does it bother anyone else how open-aired the alien ships seem to be?

[Reynard]

Here's a question: does it bother anyone else how open-aired the alien ships seem to be?

Not really, because if it was any more cluttered with this engine, it'd be near unplayable.

[Maquise]

I was thinking more of the battleship and, in particular, the temple ship. For the temple ship, there was no reason it had to be open to the world. The background could have been like the base mission, with docked alien ships and other things.

[shadow_archmagi]

The random balconies did seem very unusual, yes.

[huttj509]

The random balconies did seem very unusual, yes.

I'm just going outside to get some air.

[Maugan Ra]

Oh god, this game... it is devouring my life. I keep checking my watch and discovering that it's 5am because I started playing through a few missions and refused to let the Xenos win by putting the game down to go to sleep or something...

Still, very fun. I am finding that I never end up with a middle ground in my mission results - either I slaughter the aliens wholesale, with maybe an injury or two at most if I'm unlucky, or I get butchered to a man because everything just starts going wrong all at once.

Cases in point:
- First time I had a pair of decent snipers in my team, I moved them on top of a convenient nearby building and spent the entire match just exploding everything that dared poke it's head out. Second time, I move them onto a large truck with an excellent line of sight, and promptly discover that doing so triggers every alien you can now see. Which in this case was about fifty million.

- First time I encounter Chryssalids, I am mildly surprised by how tough they are, but manage to put them down quickly. I even managed to capture one for interrogation, and earned the 'like a scalpel' achievement for that mission. The second time I encounter Chryssalids, one of them devours my assault trooper, everyone else pours on fire, and they just about manage to finish killing it when the assault trooper turns into a zombie and bites the medic in half.

- First time I encounter a muton, it roars at the assault trooper who just shotgunned it. He panics, and promptly unloads another round into it's face, which kills it in turn. Second time I encounter them, they proceed to demonstrate that they do, in fact, have grenades by damn near killing my entire squad in a single throw.

This has been much of the pattern for my games so far...

[Krade]

I even managed to capture one for interrogation

Umm... What? You can't capture Cryssalids.

[Maugan Ra]

...really? I could swear that I did. Hmm. Well, I blame sleep deprivation.