[PF] am i being too harsh?

[the clumsy bard]

A player recently asked me the following question:

"Is it possible for me to have a modified version of this spell (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/a/ablative-barrier) that doesn't do the lethal-nonlethal conversion, and doesn't expire until the end of its duration (1 hour per level)? I really want the armor bonus, and honestly don't care about having lethal damage converted to nonlethal.

Now the relevant information is that the character is playing a kensai magus (https://sites.google.com/site/pathfinderogc/classes/base-classes/magus/archetypes/paizo---magus-archetypes/kensai) from Ultimate Magic. They chose to play a race that has a - 2 to intelligence, which with the kensai class gives them a bonus to AC based on your intelligence.

I feel like the spell is weak if they remove the rest of the spell, but I also feel like the character is trying to add mage armor like spells to their list to make up for the lack of the armor they chose to have by taking a race + class combo that turned out bad even after a few players told them so.

Is it wrong to say no in this case? I mean the magus list has no mage armor spells of any kind, which I believe is by design.

[Person_Man]

IMO, if a player is willing to sacrifice a resource (in this case, one or more spell slots) for a minor bonus (+2 AC) I say let them, as long as they're not stacking a lot of passive bonuses in such a way that it's game breaking.

[Ellrin]

I don't think a player should necessarily be punished for not mechanically optimizing his character, and it's definitely a DM's responsibility to at least try to make sure a party is on relatively equal footing, although stupid player decisions can make that impractical beyond a certain point.

I'd say either make him go through a non-trivial in-game process of researching and learning such a variant of the spell (which would certainly be absurdly weak, so I'd bump it down to 1st level), or else (and this would be my personal preference) have a sidequest where he meets another kind of magus who can teach him how to wear light (and only light) armor without screwing with his spells (or maybe with just a reduced ASF chance), just so he can stay relevant beyond the point where an extra +2 AC would help.

Make a point that you won't be as kind with future bad decisions, but give him a second chance for now.

[Alefiend]

... teach him how to wear light (and only light) armor without screwing with his spells...

The magus already has this for free at 1st level. They improve to medium armor at 7th level, and heavy at 13th. [forgot about the archetype. Thanks for pointing it out.] The character has only given up 1 point of AC from choosing a -2INT race, so there's really no harm in making him wait for the spell.

[Ellrin]

The magus already has this for free at 1st level. They improve to medium armor at 7th level, and heavy at 13th. The character has only given up 1 point of AC from choosing a -2INT race, so there's really no harm in making him wait for the spell.

Take another look--the player's running the kensai magus archetype, which gives up armor and in-armor casting. The only bonus to AC he gets is from canny defense, which gives him AC based on his Int modifier; so without magic items and spell buffs, he's kind of screwed himself royally for AC.

[Douglas]

Is it wrong to say no in this case? I mean the magus list has no mage armor spells of any kind, which I believe is by design.
If it's by design, I utterly fail to see the logic behind said design.

Personally, I'd just house rule that Mage Armor actually is on the Magus list. It's no more overpowered or broken than just having a friendly Wizard cast it on him, and in fact might be weaker due to taking a slot that could have been used with Magus special abilities rather than a slot that can only do normal spellcasting.

[Person_Man]

If it's by design, I utterly fail to see the logic behind said design.

Personally, I'd just house rule that Mage Armor actually is on the Magus list. It's no more overpowered or broken than just having a friendly Wizard cast it on him, and in fact might be weaker due to taking a slot that could have been used with Magus special abilities rather than a slot that can only do normal spellcasting.

The logic is the same as the Monk, which is that Int to AC + Dex + Bracers + random magical buffs should provide an armor bonus which is equal to or higher than Armor + Dex (limited by max Dex) + armor enhancements + random magical buffs. But like the Monk, it doesn't work out that way due to MAD and the increased cost of Bracers over armor.

[CTrees]

Eh, I'd give him two or three spells of a level he can cast from the wizard list, for a feat. That way he can just pick up Mage Armor and some other utility, but at a reasonable opportunity cost.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

Does Pathfinder have different Armor stacking rules than 3.5? Otherwise I don't see how that spell would benefit a magus. Magus's can cast in light armor so they really shouldn't need mage armor unless they're trying to be super stealthy or don't want to wear armor for rp reasons and I'm pretty sure that that rather than game balance is the main reason mage armor isn't on the Magus spell list.

Edit: Oooo Kensai, ya wouldn't take that deal, the int bonus to AC just won't be as good as a chain shirt without magic vestment or mage armor and the rest of it might barely be worth diminished casting.

I still think the lack of mage armor is due to it being useless to standard maguses rather than to keep kensai balanced. I think it will be fine to let a kensai have mage armor on his list since nothing would stop a kensai from getting the buff from a wizard in their group.

[AttilaTheGeek]

Eh, I'd give him two or three spells of a level he can cast from the wizard list, for a feat. That way he can just pick up Mage Armor and some other utility, but at a reasonable opportunity cost.

This seems reasonable. Though you might want to be careful if (s)he picks Mage Armor, Charm Person, and Disguise Self, which give the magus a huge improvement in social situations. Of course, you may or may not agree that the magus class could use those spells on its list in the first place, in which case it's not an issue.

I'd also offer the same deal (exchange a feat to address a fundamental mechanics problem with your class, character, or spell list) to other players, and be fair in allowing only those who need it to take it.

[Alefiend]

Pathfinder arcane casters can wear Mithral Haramaki ...

I'd like to see them try. A haramaki is a cloth wrapping around the abdomen. They don't come in mithral.

[AttilaTheGeek]

Pathfinder arcane casters can wear Mithral Haramaki fused to Mithral Armored Kilt to have AC +2, light armor(arguable, logic of this is fusing Armored Kilt makes Haramaki+Armored Kilt medium armor but mithral makes it light armor again), no arcane casting failure, ACP 0.
It is 2023gp 5 1/2lb I remember.

Or they can just use Mage Armor and Shield, for AC +6, no ASF or ACP, and for free :smalltongue:

[jaybird]

Or they can just use Mage Armor and Shield, for AC +6, no ASF or ACP, and for free :smalltongue:

Keep in mind, I HAVE been pulling an all-nighter for a midterm.

That said...aren't MA and Shield both +4 AC?

[Zubrowka74]

I'm AFB at the moment but I've always assumed a Magus could research spells the same way a Wizard could. IS there any mention anywhere that this is not the case ?

[the clumsy bard]

First off, thank you for all the responses.

I have suggested to the magus 2 things.

As mentioned by Zubrowka74, I have suggested researching a spell identical to mage armor and calling it Kensai armor or something more interesting.

I have also suggested to the player to simply play nice and have the party witch cast mage armor on her character. Same effect and the kensai can then be a melee speed bump in front of the witch.

I also said she could just take it as a second level spell, but strongly suggested she not do that as it is subpar choice in terms of a second level spell if she modify it the way she wanted to.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

Sounds like 3 good calls to me.

[Novawurmson]

I'm in the "Mage Armor" camp. Let the Magus learn it or buy/find a wand of it. +2 armor for a second level spell slot is pretty poor.

[AttilaTheGeek]

Keep in mind, I HAVE been pulling an all-nighter for a midterm.

That said...aren't MA and Shield both +4 AC?

You're right. Clearly you aren't the only one who could use a bit more sleep.