[PF] Be nice, it's my first time

[RFLS]

So, as embarrassing as this as this is to admit, I've never actually played a wizard. I statted one up for a campaign (PF only) that I'm in, and I'm currently in the spell selection stage. Staring at the massive list of spells available to me, I'm kinda lost for what to do. He's a necromancy themed wizard, specifically minionmancy (Yes, I know, clerics do it better. I'm playing a wizard, not changing that). I'm level 7, 24 Intelligence.

So...what do I do? I have 2 4th level spells, 4 3rd level spells, 5 2nds, and 6 1sts. What sort of loadout would you recommend on a daily basis? Obviously, I have access to whatever spells I want (within reason) if I have a day's notice, but what would you recommend for a day-to-day spell selection?

As a side note, my current feat selection could probably use some work, but I am playing a fairly low OP game, so I'm not too fussed in that department. So far I've got my feats as the following:



{table=head]Source|Feat
1st Level|Spell Focus (Necromancy)
Wizard|Scribe Scroll
Arcane School|Command Undead
3rd Level|Greater Spell Focus(Necromancy)
5th Level|Undead Master
Bonus Wizard Feat|Craft Wondrous Item
7th Level|Craft Wand
[/table]


And, to round out the proof of my newbosity, I'd like to ask what sort of undead critters people recommend for reanimation.

[AttilaTheGeek]

So, as embarrassing as this as this is to admit, I've never actually played a wizard.

Everyone has a first time being a world-shaking, campaign-shattering, tier 1 demigod :smallbiggrin:


So...what do I do? I have 2 4th level spells, 4 3rd level spells, 5 2nds, and 6 1sts. What sort of loadout would you recommend on a daily basis? Obviously, I have access to whatever spells I want (within reason) if I have a day's notice, but what would you recommend for a day-to-day spell selection?

Do you have a bonded object or a familiar? My bonded object has saved my wizard's life countless times, being able to cast that last-minute Dimension Door, Invisibility, or even one more Magic Missile at 1st level to finish off the BBEG. If you have a familiar instead, I'd prepare Dimension Door and Invisibility at least once every day, regardless of spec.

[RFLS]

Do you have a bonded object or a familiar? My bonded object has saved my wizard's life countless times, being able to cast that last-minute Dimension Door, Invisibility, or even one more Magic Missile at 1st level to finish off the BBEG. If you have a familiar instead, I'd prepare Dimension Door and Invisibility at least once every day, regardless of spec.

I've got a bonded object, and yeah, I was definitely planning on holding onto that spont. casting for a get-out-of-jail-free card. Do you have a recommendation for a particular type of object? It's currently a wand, but I'm fairly tempted to switch it to being a staff. The only reason I picked wand for now is the ability to cast a spell I'm likely to spam as well as 1 spontaneous spell/day.

[avr]

Enervation is still a top-of-the line BBEG debuff. You'll want Animate dead, lesser for obvious reasons too (Animate dead itself is something you should get but might not prepare every day at this level; since you only get a couple of free 4th level spells and you want Dimension door too, you might like to start with a scroll of it.). Defending bone (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/defending-bone) is a nice long duration defensive spell. Sculpt corpse (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/sculpt-corpse) lets you play amusing and possibly useful tricks with your minions.

Which 2 schools are opposition schools for you? Assuming that neither's conjuration given that you want Dimension door (Attila's right), Grease, Create pit and Stinking cloud are your standard battlefield control spells. Note that Stinking cloud combines well with undead minions. You can have Mage armour up all day so you might as well. Keep the divination school and Seek thoughts can destroy your DM's plots (again, not a spell you'd necessarily prepare every day). Blood transcription (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/blood-transcription) may be appropriate to your necromancer too.

There's other ways you could take your spells - buffing your minions, for example - this is just one suggestion.

[avr]

By the way, you might not need greater SF in necromancy just yet, you're past the level where Cause Fear may be useful but not yet up to the level where Magic Jar or Suffocation are available. Still an option if you want to save your later feats for high-level feats I guess.

[RFLS]

Enervation is still a top-of-the line BBEG debuff. You'll want Animate dead, lesser for obvious reasons too (Animate dead itself is something you should get but might not prepare every day at this level; since you only get a couple of free 4th level spells and you want Dimension door too, you might like to start with a scroll of it.). Defending bone (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/defending-bone) is a nice long duration defensive spell. Sculpt corpse (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/sculpt-corpse) lets you play amusing and possibly useful tricks with your minions.

Which 2 schools are opposition schools for you? Assuming that neither's conjuration given that you want Dimension door (Attila's right), Grease, Create pit and Stinking cloud are your standard battlefield control spells. Note that Stinking cloud combines well with undead minions. You can have Mage armour up all day so you might as well. Keep the divination school and Seek thoughts can destroy your DM's plots (again, not a spell you'd necessarily prepare every day). Blood transcription (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/blood-transcription) may be appropriate to your necromancer too.

There's other ways you could take your spells - buffing your minions, for example - this is just one suggestion.

Got a wand of enervation, which is actually the reason I took greater SF (I made the wand). I'm holding onto the bonded object spell for a "get out of jail free" button. Opposition are enchantment and evocation. I missed stinking cloud; I'll have to put that in my spell loadout for the day.

[avr]

You know that Enervation is a no-save spell?

[RFLS]

You know that Enervation is a no-save spell?

Holy crapballs. I feel dumb right now.

[RFLS]

So uh...suggestions for other feats for me to take? >.<

[Dissonance]

solid choice would be either the improved initiative or extend metamagic feat.

Considering you have access to 4th level spells, that gives you some good wiggle room to prepare a metamagic charged spell, especially a cheap one like extend. stinking cloud and summons wreak their havoc for much longer, invisiblity might as well be all day for the good it does you. that is before you start adding in all of the insane possibilities available when combined with the nasty debuffs available through your focused school.

improved initiative is always a great choice even after your using divination to get surprise rounds on enemies. For a wizard, going first can make the difference between a total lockdown and a TPK.

[Squirrel_Dude]

Got a wand of enervation, which is actually the reason I took greater SF (I made the wand). I'm holding onto the bonded object spell for a "get out of jail free" button. Opposition are enchantment and evocation. I missed stinking cloud; I'll have to put that in my spell loadout for the day.I like the opposed school choices. Here are some spell recommendations at each level. I figure that as a necromancer you're more about debuffing than buffing, so I didn't make any transmutation suggestions. I figured better options would be abjuration to protect yourself, illusion to deceive people, and conjuration to control the battlefield.

*After taking into account the comments of the wise man below me, I made a few changes. I've put an "add later" to spells that I think you might want to pick up later as utility/personality spells. Spells like Sculpt corpse or Skinsend. U for utility, P for personality.

1st
Necromancy
Cause Fear
Ray of Enfeeblement
Sculpt Corpse - Add later P

Conjuration
Grease
Obscurring Mist
Mage Armor

Illusion
Disguise Self
Illusion of Calm
Silent Image

Abjuration
Alarm
Protection from X Alignment
Shield

2nd
Necromancy
Spectral Hand
Command Undead
False Life
Skinsend - Add Later P
Steal Voice - Add Later P

Conjuration
Create Pit
Glitterdust - Add later U
Web

Illusion
Minor Image
Mirror Image - Add later U
Invisibility
Blur

Abjuration
Arcane Lock (For the book)
Communal Endure Elements
Communal Protection from X Alignment

Transmutation
Levitate

3rd
Necromancy
Ray of Exhaustion
Marionette Possession
Lesser Animate Dead
Sands of Time - Add Later P
Eldritch Fever - Add Later P

Conjuration
Sleet Storm
Spiked Pit
Stinking Cloud

Illusion
Major Image
Vision of Hell - Add Later U/P
Displacement

Abjuration
Communal Resist Energy
Dispel Magic

Transmutation (Okay, so there are two spells you want >.>)
Fly
Haste

4th
Necromancy
Enervation
Animate Dead
Fear

Conjuration
Dimension Door
Black Tentacles
Summon Monster IV - Add Later U
Fleshworm Infestation/Touch of Slime - Add Later P

Illusion
Illusory Wall
Shadow Conjuration - Add Later U
Greater Invisibility

Abjuration
Communal Nondetection (If you're evil and hang out with evil, a must)
Dimensional Anchor
Stoneskin


Feats to look into Beyond 7th level:
Improved Initiative: You want to go first
Improved Familiar: Sorry, forgot you had a bonded object. The only thing similar to this is a third party feat.
Spell Penetration: You're about to start seeing things that have SR. You'll need to blow through it.
Skeleton Summoner: Use summon monster to bring in undead minions instead, with all their resistances
Thanatopic Spell: Even undead won't be immune to your level drain
Undead Master: Let's you control more undead
Extra Channeling: If you're relying on channel energy to control your undead, it will help you to be able to do it a couple extra times a day
Improved Channeling: See above, but making it harder for people to resist you

If you want to Prestige Class
May I suggest
Loremaster: A solid option for any magic user. You don't lose much, and gain a little.

Agent of the Grave (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/a-b/agent-of-the-grave) Lose 1 caster level, but gain some interesting abilities to increase your strength as a controller of undead, and some other powers.

Soul Drinker (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/s-z/souldrinker) Lose two casting levels, and it requires you to be evil. Gain the ability to bestow negative levels and gain hit points with touch attacks. Use souls to make recharge your staves and spells per day.

Random Tips
- If you ever enter a city or library, as soon as you get an opportunity start looking for scrolls. You NEED them. If the rogue fights you for it, stall him with a zombie. Joining/supporting a religion can be handy for this
- If you ever run into a careless wizard, fleece them for all that their worth.
- If you care for deities, may I suggest Nethys, Sarenrae, Pharasma, and Urgathoa. Magic, Healing, Death, and Undeath, respectively.

So yeah, there's my two cents. Note that not all of those suggestions are created equal, and are more to point you in a direction than give you any expert advice. Come back after you've picked some spells, and people wiser than I can give you some more advice.

[ericgrau]

If you're relying on enervation a lot, and you are since you have a wand, you should get precise shot. It requires point blank shot, so that's 2 feats. Spell penetration and greater spell penetration are good in Pathfinder too. I seemed to face a lot of foes with SR when I played and I hear that PF has more. Or a simple alternative is to buff your skellies instead.

For 2nd level false life is great for keeping you alive. Cast it in the morning when you mage armor. Heck get a lesser rod of extend spell plus prepare a 2nd copy and keep it up 24 hours a day. Same with mage armor. Because suprise ambushes suck for mages, and many happen after your 8 hours of travel is over. False life is one of the biggest reasons I tend to keep necromancy, I'm surprised it's missing from the above. It's the best defense at your level because you don't waste a combat round on it.

I like 3.5 ray of enfeeblement a lot but Pathfinder nerfed it a bit so it's kinda meh now. Maybe if you picked up empower spell and precise shot it could be alright. They also nerfed glitterdust; I wouldn't take it. Web is still great. Shadow conjuration is minor utility, and you don't usually put minor utility in your highest level slots. Otherwise the above list is pretty good. For transmutations I like feather fall, levitate and haste. Haste is especially awesome on a group of undead. I used to think levitate was fly-lite and wasn't worth taking if you can squeeze in fly instead. But then I got it as a racial SLA once and dear lord it's one of the most useful spells there is. Because levitate has a range, fly is touch, levitate works on your turn, fly works on their turn. So you cast levitate and bam, the important creature or thing is instantly out of harm's way. And of course it can keep the caster safe too.

Agreed that you should animate dead during your down time, then prepare a different spell on regular days. Keep a good supply of obsidian in case you aren't able to find any for a while.

[AttilaTheGeek]

For 2nd level false life is great for keeping you alive. Cast it in the morning when you mage armor. Heck get a lesser rod of extend spell plus prepare a 2nd copy and keep it up 24 hours a day. Same with mage armor. Because suprise ambushes suck for mages, and many happen after your 8 hours of travel is over. False life is one of the biggest reasons I tend to keep necromancy, I'm surprised it's missing from the above. It's the best defense at your level because you don't waste a combat round on it.

(snip)

Agreed that you should animate dead during your down time, then prepare a different spell on regular days. Keep a good supply of obsidian in case you aren't able to find any for a while.

(emphasis mine)

You're right- it's very important to be prepared for absolutely (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0800.html) anything (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0781.html). When it comes to material components, I estimate how much I'm going to need before I resupply, multiply by five, then buy that many.

I've also learned the hard way to always prepare Invisibility, even if you have a bonded object, so that you can have a backup invisibility while still keeping your real backup spell slot for the other "almost-TPK" moment. Because as murphy's law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murphy's_law) tells us, anything that can go wrong will. Twice.


I've got a bonded object, and yeah, I was definitely planning on holding onto that spont. casting for a get-out-of-jail-free card. Do you have a recommendation for a particular type of object? It's currently a wand, but I'm fairly tempted to switch it to being a staff. The only reason I picked wand for now is the ability to cast a spell I'm likely to spam as well as 1 spontaneous spell/day.

I picked an amulet because it can't be stolen easily, and you can't get gollum'd (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=O989n0SByk0#t=176s). And if you do, you have bigger problems, like your head no longer being attached to your neck.

[Morbis Meh]

I suggest you look into playing as a Dhampir wizard, they have a simply delightful archetype for necromancy that effectively makes them on par with a cleric for casting, Cruormancer or something like that.

[Squirrel_Dude]

I suggest you look into playing as a Dhampir wizard, they have a simply delightful archetype for necromancy that effectively makes them on par with a cleric for casting, Cruormancer or something like that.

The Cruoromancer, yeah. I honestly have no idea how to pronounce it, but it has some interesting abilities based around infusing the magic with his blood. They replace arcane bond, and the bonus feats granted as a wizard. You get some interesting powers.

- Ability to increase the DC of your necromancy spells by 1 or sicken a target that takes damage from a spell for one round (Arcane Bond)
- Ability to command more undead and summon more undead (5th)
- Ability to desecrate (kind of) as a power (10th)
- Ability to scry on your undead as if they had arcane eye (15th)
- Ability to do all of this without taking damage (20th)

*shrug* I think the best stuff is at 1st, 5th and 15th. Pretty cool if you're doing necromancy.

Also, if you want to go Dhampir, be aware that there are alternate racial traits/set ups for them. You'd want to be a Jiang-shi born (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-dhampir) (+2 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Wis).

[Siltharon]

Has noone mentioned corpsecrafter yet? (if so forgive me) If you really wanna play with minions and minionmasterflavour it's a pretty great feat:

[General]

Undead you raise or create are tougher than normal.
Preqs.: none
Effekt: Each undead you raise or create with any necromancy spell gains a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength and +2 hit points per Hit Die.

Found in Libris Mortis p. 25

[RFLS]

-snip full of good suggestions-

Damn, thank you. Very thorough answer; quite a few spells I missed (I'm too embarrassed to say which ones). As for the Agent of the Grave PrC, that's astounding. Do you, or anyone else, happen to have access to a book in which it was printed? The SRD has a conflict between text and table regarding caster levels; I much prefer the text (5/5 progression).


I suggest you look into playing as a Dhampir wizard, they have a simply delightful archetype for necromancy that effectively makes them on par with a cleric for casting, Cruormancer or something like that.

Nope. Playing a gnome. Suboptimal, yes. What I want to play- also yes.

[RFLS]

Has noone mentioned corpsecrafter yet? (if so forgive me) If you really wanna play with minions and minionmasterflavour it's a pretty great feat:

[General]

Undead you raise or create are tougher than normal.
Preqs.: none
Effekt: Each undead you raise or create with any necromancy spell gains a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength and +2 hit points per Hit Die.

Found in Libris Mortis p. 25

The OP specified PF only, and the thread is tagged [PF]. Wish I could use that feat, though. Was the first thing I asked about.

[Squirrel_Dude]

Damn, thank you. Very thorough answer; quite a few spells I missed (I'm too embarrassed to say which ones). As for the Agent of the Grave PrC, that's astounding. Do you, or anyone else, happen to have access to a book in which it was printed? The SRD has a conflict between text and table regarding caster levels; I much prefer the text (5/5 progression).I do not have access to that text, sorry. It's from the Adventure Path "Broken Moon."


Playing a gnome. Suboptimal, yes. What I want to play- also yes.Less terrible than you might think. The charisma helps you with your channeling, and alternate racial traits are fun things. If you go undead, you'll want that charisma for your health.

- For evil flavor you could pick up Fell Magic instead of gnome magic. As a wizard you might want Magical Linguist instead of obsessive and gnome magic.
- Gift of Tongues is also handy for being able to read more scrolls and more magic because you know more languages. It replaces defensive training and hatred.

As for the Necromancy school:
- If you want to get an easy way to buff your undead instead of debuff the enemy, you may want to be a member of the Undead subschool.
- If you want to be about healing people, then you could do the Life school as well.

[Siltharon]

The OP specified PF only, and the thread is tagged [PF]. Wish I could use that feat, though. Was the first thing I asked about.

Hmm ok sorry then ... thought maybe you are a allowed to take some feats from 3.5 ... Overread that it's PF only

[RFLS]

I do not have access to that text, sorry. It's from the Adventure Path "Broken Moon."

Less terrible than you might think. The charisma helps you with your channeling, and alternate racial traits are fun things. If you go undead, you'll want that charisma for your health.

- For evil flavor you could pick up Fell Magic instead of gnome magic. As a wizard you might want Magical Linguist instead of obsessive and gnome magic.
- Gift of Tongues is also handy for being able to read more scrolls and more magic because you know more languages. It replaces defensive training and hatred.

As for the Necromancy school:
- If you want to get an easy way to buff your undead instead of debuff the enemy, you may want to be a member of the Undead subschool.
- If you want to be about healing people, then you could do the Life school as well.

For alternate racials, I already picked up fell magic and eternal hope; they seemed the most useful. Language almost never comes into play in my group. For the Necromancy thing, I already picked Undead, given that my goal is minionmancy.

[Squirrel_Dude]

For alternate racials, I already picked up fell magic and eternal hope; they seemed the most useful. Language almost never comes into play in my group. For the Necromancy thing, I already picked Undead, given that my goal is minionmancy.Well, then it looks like you're set. You've got a good character idea, and seem to know how you want to accomplish it. I'm sure some other people around here have some good ideas for you.

Have you put any thought to character traits?

[RFLS]

Well, then it looks like you're set. You've got a good character idea, and seem to know how you want to accomplish it. I'm sure some other people around here have some good ideas for you.

Have you put any thought to character traits?

Oh, ****. Uhm. Nope >.< Suggestions?

[doko239]

As an alternative for your bonded object, might I suggest an Adamantine Spiked Gauntlet?

Reasons:

- Cannot be disarmed or stolen, and becomes very difficult to sunder.
- Can be cheaply enchanted with some very useful effects (Dueling comes to mind)
- Does not interfere with arcane spellcasting, and can wield another weapon in that hand
- Looks badass


Edit: as far as Traits, this guide (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dVQA-uI740Hh8vq-zsnbHV6UwJg-4QKlpmkxBEmCdhA/edit?pli=1) should be helpful.

My suggestions would be Dangerously Curious (+1 UMD and make it a class skill) and Reactionary (+2 trait bonus to Initiative).

[Squirrel_Dude]

Oh, ****. Uhm. Nope >.< Suggestions?Don't worry about it, they normally have small bonuses. Still ask your GM if you're using them (they are an alternate rule), and how many you may have. Also remember that you are only allowed at most 1 from each category.

I made a list, but someone has been kind enough to post a guide to them for you. Take a look through that.

Personally I recommend taking something that gives you an incombat benefit and something that gives you a roleplaying benefit. Especially when you're evil, you'll want to be able to talk people out of fights.