How can I help my party fight Constructs?

[sabelo2000]

I'm DMing a low-op game in which the current story arc heavily features construct enemies. This was fine for a while, but the people playing our Paladin, Sorcerer, and Cleric have all dropped out for various reasons, leaving us with a Bard, Fighter/Duelist, 2 Thief/Shadowdancers, and a Druid.

Now of course the Druid can hold her own against almost anything, even though she's new at the game and hasn't yet realized that Druids are uber-powerful and she could have ruled the world by Level 12 if she'd tried. But regarding the other four, I'm having some problems.

The Duelist and the two Rogues are almost completely ineffective against Constructs, especially anything that has DR. All three are based around precision fighting techniques, with light weapons or rapiers, and of course Constructs are immune to precise strike/sneak attack.

The Bard, on the other hand, despite being a capable gamer just cannot and will not remove himself from the rut of "I hit it with a stick. I hit it again. I hit it some more... why isn't it dying?!" Heck, he hasn't even bothered to roll a Knowledge check regarding a single enemy they've fought in the last month, in order to determine their weaknesses. If he had, he totally could have UMD the pile of Scrolls of Align Weapon I placed for them a while ago, and negated the whole DR problem (fighting Inevitables at the time). So as far as he's concerned, I'm content to let him sink or swim on his own.

But the Duelist and Rogues... it's not their fault they jumped into a campaign that (at the moment) features enemies they can't but scratch. Of course, as a good DM I immediately adjusted to feed them plenty of squishy enemies, but they rolled a natural 20 on their Knowledge (plot holes) check and said "Why do we keep fighting mages etc. while their mosty-completed constructs sit helplessly on the workbench?" So obviously they WANT to fight these Inevitables, Golems, and other lesser constructs, but I need to find a way for them to be effective at it.

Other than hand-waving away major Construct traits like DR or "immune to criticals," and then eyeballing the lower CRs, how can I set up opportunities for these guys to have some fun smashing things?

TL;DR: What DM techniques/placed loot/etc. can I employ to allow a Duelist and two Rogues to be effective fighting Constructs?

[Erik Vale]

Import the pathfinder ruling that constructs aren't immune to precision damage due to fortification, which represents targeting joints and such.

Other idea is bane [Construct] weapon drops, or a homebrewed enchantment that negates criticle immunity/fortification allowing the use of precision damage.

[Morcleon]

Drop them a few Weapon Crystals of Demolition, Greater. You deal an extra +1d6 damage against constructs, bypass DR/adamantine, and can deal precision damage against constructs.

[Ranting Fool]

Demolition Crystal Greater, page 65 of the Magic Item Compendium :smallbiggrin:

Stick it in a magic weapon of at least +3 cost (or a +1 flaming Ice dagger or any combo of weapon) and you Deal 1D6 bonus damage vs constructs. Overcome all Construct damage reduction (I do believe there are other items that do this as well) and the most important can deliver sneak attacks and
critical hits against constructs as if they were living creatures all for the low low price of 6000gp per one. (If your PC's are bashing Inevitables then they should be able to afford this) :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

[Starbuck_II]

You can also just drop Scarabs of Golem Bane from the DMG in next loot (ignore DR of Golems). Treat the other constructs as Golems and you are good to go.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

Golem Strike wands or have both rogues take the ACF that trades trap sense for the ability to do half their sneak attack damage to crit immune creatures they flank.

[King Atticus]

Stick it in a magic weapon of at least +3 cost (or a +1 flaming Ice dagger or any combo of weapon)

Nope, has to be a +3 enhancement bonus. (MIC pg 221)

[Gavinfoxx]

Drop a bunch of adamantine light maces (if someone uses weapon finesse) or Morningstar (if they don't).

And let them retrain trap sense to Penetrating Strike. And a bunch of weapon crystals. And wands of Gravestrike/Golemstrike/Vinestrike.

[Morcleon]

Nope, has to be a +3 enhancement bonus. (MIC pg 221)

Just have their caster give them a GMW a day. :smallsmile:

[Shining Wrath]

Demolition Augment Magic Crystals from MIC. You have to get the greater ones, though, which can only be affixed to +3 or better weapons. That's not 3 +1 adds, mind, but a good old-fashioned +3 to hit / damage.

[Ranting Fool]

Nope, has to be a +3 enhancement bonus. (MIC pg 221)

Mmmmm thank you for this.... it seems my players have been telling fibs/misinformed me before... dear oh dear they WILL be unhappy about this...


A greater augment crystal functions only when attached to
an object with a magical enhancement bonus of +3 or higher.
Only the item's actual bonus applies, not its "effective" bonus;
for example, a +1 keen holy flaming burst longsword won't allow
a greater augment crystal to function, since its actual bonus is
only +1.

Still at OP get a +3 Dagger :smallbiggrin:

[Shining Wrath]

Nope, has to be a +3 enhancement bonus. (MIC pg 221)

Right you are.

[King Atticus]

Just have their caster give them a GMW a day. :smallsmile:

Well played :smallamused:

[lsfreak]

And let them retrain trap sense to Penetrating Strike.

This would be my recommendation.
(Actually my real recommendation is to make Penetrating Strike baseline, and turn Trapsense into a skill trick).

[Kelb_Panthera]

Just have their caster give them a GMW a day. :smallsmile:

Their only casters are a bard and a druid. GMW isn't on either of their lists and apparently the bard doesn't have the good sense to use UMD even if they got a high CL wand.

[Morcleon]

Their only casters are a bard and a druid. GMW isn't on either of their lists and apparently the bard doesn't have the good sense to use UMD even if they got a high CL wand.

...recommend that your bard use UMD with a high CL wand. :smalltongue:

[Gavinfoxx]

Mmmmm thank you for this.... it seems my players have been telling fibs/misinformed me before... dear oh dear they WILL be unhappy about this...



Still at OP get a +3 Dagger :smallbiggrin:

Well, for constructs, a +3 Adamantine Morningstar would be best. Or +3 Adamantine Light Mace...

[Morcleon]

Well, for constructs, a +3 Adamantine Morningstar would be best. Or +3 Adamantine Light Mace...

If you have +3 and a Greater Demolition Crystal, you don't need adamantine. :smallwink:

[Gavinfoxx]

True...

OP, just read this in general:

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=12837

To figure out good weapons and such to drop, both materials and enhancements...

[javijuji]

Look at the weapon crystals. Those should help a bit. Also golemstrike spell allows sneak attacks on constructs.

[Gavinfoxx]

Luck at the weapon crystals. Those should help a bit. Also golemstrike spell allows sneak attacks on constructs.

Luckily, you've been Swordsaged!

[javijuji]

Luckily, you've been Swordsaged!

Nooooo. I posted about Chaos Gnomes and Luck feats on another thread. It kinda got stuck.

[rot42]

Heck, he hasn't even bothered to roll a Knowledge check regarding a single enemy they've fought in the last month, in order to determine their weaknesses.

Start offering knowledge checks as part of your description of the scene. Also good for encouraging players to think tactically and for discouraging metagaming when a player recognizes a creature description that the character has not encountered.

[Onerai]

Start offering knowledge checks as part of your description of the scene. Also good for encouraging players to think tactically and for discouraging metagaming when a player recognizes a creature description that the character has not encountered.

I agree v strongly, this is good advice. Also let them attempt checks for free when they use something that proves more effective, like an appropriate magic item, to try and work out why that was good against them.

As others have said: Scarab of Golembane, Adamantine Weapons and Anarchic Weapons are all core and useful here. (Anarchic is mostly for inevitables, since they can't fast-heal chaotic aligned damage.)

I seem to remember the swift hunter feat (Comp Scoundrel) lets a ranger apply precision damage to favoured enemies even if they're normally immune, so picking undead/construct is an excellent choice there. However, it does require a level of ranger and at least 3 of scout (Comp Adventurer) I think, so may not be that helpful to your ongoing game.