New to DMing and curious

[Oko and Qailee]

So I'm running a campaign this summer (yes I know it's a while away) and I've already designed a plot/universe/etc.

Anyway I was wondering what kind of approach to take with this character that a friend wants. She is dead set on being a Shaman (she didn't specify a lot of spells, just a defensive orb thing, some lightning spells, and weather manipulation).

The most important part is that she wants a specific familiar, a thunderbird.

Now Thunderbirds are in Sandstorm (i think) as a CR12 monster, obviously I wouldn't give her this at level 1. But I was wondering how would you guys personally go about allowing/creating a thunderbird familiar for a character. Is there a deleveled version of it that's also much smaller? Im still reading through books so if this is common knowledge please don't chew me out :/

I also think she'll probably be a wizard since the naturally have familiars, or a sorcerer.

[nedz]

Whilst you could go Wiz or Sorc and use the Improved Familiar feat to grab a better pet (see DMG p200) — a Druid is the obvious choice. They get spells of the type you describe, and an animal companion.
I'm not sure if Thunderbird fits the requirement for being an AC, but it's worth a look.

[Matticussama]

At low levels you could easily refluff a shocker lizard as a baby thunder bird familiar, and shocker lizards are on the list from Improved Familiar. Having it trade out its skill bonuses for a fly speed seems like a pretty good exchange, and it allows the player to get what they want. At higher levels, you can let the player take Leadership to acquire the actual creature. In-character, the time between the two feats represents the bird growing up and learning how to protect and defend itself.

[andromax]

The most important part is that she wants a specific familiar, a thunderbird.

Now Thunderbirds are in Sandstorm (i think) as a CR12 monster, obviously I wouldn't give her this at level 1.

Well the Thunderbird is a Magical Beast, and as such has a 1d10 hit die, full BAB, good Fort and Ref saves, and skill points (2+ INT MOD, Minimum 1). So this gives you a good guide to de-CR the creature.

As far as it's Special Qualities, leave the Darkvision at 60 ft., immunity to electricity and sonic is fine. Reduce the resistance to acid and fire to 5 and spell resistance (10+1 per Hit Die, since SR 25 at 15 HD).


A level 1 Thunderbird would probably be a medium creature with , and have significantly less strength as well as less of it's impressive stats in general.

Str 28, Dex 17, Con 22, Int 12, Wis 19, Cha 17.

Using the Improving Monsters (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm) guide lines in the SRD, we can show that it gains 16 Strength and 8 Con going from medium to huge.

This would show a base Str of 12 and a base con of 14. We're left with stat adjustments via leveling (a total of +3 to any stat) and the rest would be racial stat adjustments.

Let' assume they used the Elite Array;
The elite array is: 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8.

We could assign the 12 to strength since it fits perfect. The Con could be could the 10, with a +4 racial CON bonus (purely guesswork) and +8 from Size increases, the 15 could be DEX with a (+6 Racial DEX Bonus, and a -4 size increase penalty), the WIS could be the 13, a +6 racial bonus. Let's assign the 8 to INT since it's also a +4 Racial bonus.

The spellcasting appears to be CHA based, so that would probably be the stat in which is increased via levels. Let's go ahead and subtract 3 from that 17 because we're creating a level 1 version. Now we're at 14. Seems to fit the 14 from Elite Array.

So we end up with;
12 STR (12+16[medium to huge is +16]=28)
15 DEX (15+6[Racial]-4[medium to huge is -4]=17)
10 Con (10+4[Racial]+8[medium to huge is+8]=22)
8 INT (8+4[Racial]=12)
13 WIS (13+6[Racial]=19)
14 CHA (14+3[Via Levels, 15HD]=17)

Keep in mind this is merely ONE way to make the puzzle pieces fit, and are not the ONLY way.

So we have stats, and a CR12 Creature with (possible) +4 bonus to CON, INT, and +6 to DEX, WIS. Since these apply to a 15 HD creature, and it doesn't have a functional LA, I would dish out the +4 and +6 to each stat over the course of levels. Maybe start at level 3 and give him +1 to each of his + 4 racial stats per 3 HD, and +2 to his +6 racial stats per 4 HD, or whatever you think is appropriate. I'd start with a +4 racial bonus to INT at level 1, for easy calculations of skill points.

We also have a +5 increase in Natural Armor from medium to huge, so that would leave us with a medium Natural Armor of +2, for 1st level.

It's natural weapons deal 1d8 (Huge die size) +9 (Str mod) for the Talon. Go down 2 size dies to 1d4 using the weapon size charts (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#weaponSize). So a lvl 1 Thunderbirds talons would do 1d4+1 (weapon die decrease 2 size catagories and strength 12).

It's bite does 1d6 damage 2 die sizes smaller(2d6 at 15HD), and as a secondary attack would do 1/2 strength.

Upgrade from Medium to Large at 8HD or 10HD.

EDIT: Meant to add (as others already have) you'll definitely want to require the Improved Familiar feat.

Also, you can calculate Skills, BAB, Hitpoints, attack and damage using everything I just posted.

As far as the Spell-like abilities, use the sorcerer spell progression to decide when it can use it's SLAs. Example, no call lightning until 6th level (I would give it a cap of 3/day since it's playable, rather than AT-WILL), Shout at 8th, Call Lightning Storm at 10th etc (druid spell list).

EDIT/EDIT.. Thought the stuff I wrote about DEX was Wonky, but be sure to just not apply the dex penalties until the sizes are adjusted. So lvl 1 (using my example, etc) Dex would be 15. lvl 3 Would jump to 16, level 6 would jump to 17 (and possibly back down to 15 if went large at 8, or 10, due to the size penalty) up to 18 or 16 at lvl 9 (depending on the level of size increase) and finally to DEX 17 at lvl 12.

[Oko and Qailee]

Wow, a lot of good replys here. Thanks guys :) I'm still reading through.

[Dsurion]

Another solution, similar to the shocker lizard, is to add the Arrowhawk (http://www.dndsrd.net/monstersA.html#arrowhawk) as an Improved Familiar option, reskin it as a smaller/weaker/younger Thunderbird. At least it has a Fly speed and some sort of Electricity attack. Probably the closest you'll get without much work.

[Matticussama]

Adding the Arrowhawk is a really good idea. It is the same relative power scale as many of the other creatures granted by Improved Familiar, and it avoids any oddities that may occur in refluffing the shocker lizard.

[rot42]

Alternatively, you could make the connection more totemic. Complete Champion has a Divine Companion spirit (p. 51) as a replacement for a familiar. If the player wants to select appropriate spells, they could be fluffed as being "granted" by the thunderbird spirit. Possibly some summoning to allow it to partially manifest even at lower levels.

[andromax]

Figured I'd just type up a level 1 Thunderbird, since I've been pondering it since my last post.

Thunderbird

Medium Magical Beast
Hit Dice: 1d10+0 (6 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), fly 80 ft. (good)
Armor Class: 15 ( +3 Dex, +2 natural), touch 13, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +1/+2
Attack: Talon +2 melee (1d4+1)
Full Attack: 2 talons +2 melee (1d4+1) and bite +0 melee (1d6)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft. (10 ft./5ft at Large size), (15ft/10ft at Huge size).
Special Attacks: Spell-like abilities
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., immunity to electricity and sonic, resistance to acid 5 (10 at 8 Hit Die) and fire 5 (10 at 8 Hit Die), spell resistance 10+HD
Saves: Fort +2, Ref +4, Will +3
Abilities: Str 12, Dex 15, Con 10, Int 12, Wis 13, Cha 14
Skills: Intimidate +4, Knowledge (nature) +3, Listen +4, Spot +9, survival +3 (+6 above ground)
Feats: Hover, Iron Will
Environment: Temperate deserts
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 1
Alignment: Always chaotic good
Advancement: 8-15 HD (Large); 16–30 HD (Huge); 31–45 HD (Gargantuan)
Level Adjustment: —

Spell-Like Abilities: DCs are Charisma Based. At will—(3/day is better)Fog Cloud at 4 HD, Call Lightning at 6 HD, Shout at 8 HD, (3/day) Call Lightning Storm at 10 HD, Greater Shout at 12 HD, Sandstorm at HD 12, Solid Fog at 8 HD; 1/day—Earthquake at 12 HD. Caster level equals Hit Die.
Skills: Thunderbirds have a +4 racial bonus on Spot
checks.

(Skill breakdown) 12 Skills points at level 1; 2 ranks in intimidate, 2 ranks Knowledge (nature), 3 ranks Listen, 4 ranks Spot, 1 rank Survival.

EDIT: Thought this nugget would be pertinent to this creature, from the rules compendium.
Dive Attack; Flying during a Charge
A creature that flies can make dive attacks. A dive attack works just like a charge, but the diving creature must move a minimum of 30 feet and descend at least 10 feet. It can make only claw or talon attacks, but these deal double damage.

[Crake]

You might actually want to consider the option of just saying no. If your campaign is starting at level 1, remind the player that his character has 0 experience. He hasn't really *done* anything, why should his character get something like that? If he's not level 1, then let him contribute some of his starting WBL to buying an egg (or the equipment needed to acquire his own egg) and have him roll some handle animal checks to rear it (or partially rear it, if you want to lower its HD to bring it more in line with the rest of the party) similar to how someone would raise a giant eagle or the like.

Perhaps let him rear it by 1 HD per level he currently has, reduce its size to small for the first few, then increase to medium, then large and finally huge when it hits 15HD. I wouldn't let him get it as a companion, as the additional HD from that would make it quite powerful. I would also say make the creature take XP away from the party, as it's essentially another character.

Honestly though, I would actually say the best option is to not just cave in and give the player everything he wants, especially as your first time DMing. I've found that limiting what the players have access to makes your job easier, and also makes the players focus more on the game rather than trying to optimize themselves, which all in all leads to a higher focus on the game and story rather than the mechanics behind it all.

[Oko and Qailee]

Honestly though, I would actually say the best option is to not just cave in and give the player everything he wants, especially as your first time DMing. I've found that limiting what the players have access to makes your job easier, and also makes the players focus more on the game rather than trying to optimize themselves, which all in all leads to a higher focus on the game and story rather than the mechanics behind it all.

Well she wanted it more for cool concept rather than to have something obscenely powerful. She doesn't know really anything about DnD and didn't know their was a CR12 thunderbird, she basically just said "I would like to have a thunderbird."

I didn't think too much of it at the time and everyone else seems to be one board with doing simple stuff (one friend wants to be a rouge, another one a paladin).

All these players are relatively low experience, and I don't think it will be too much of an issue. I'm currently in a campaign where 6/8 of the players are new, and some of us (like me) are doing kinda weirder stuff, and its also our DM's first time and he doesn't seem to be having much trouble.

I, unlike him though, don't plan on taking more than 4-5 players.... I feel like 8 would be too much to keep track of.

[Oko and Qailee]

Figured I'd just type up a level 1 Thunderbird, since I've been pondering it since my last post.

Thunderbird

Medium Magical Beast
Hit Dice: 1d10+0 (6 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), fly 80 ft. (good)
Armor Class: 15 ( +3 Dex, +2 natural), touch 13, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +1/+2
Attack: Talon +2 melee (1d4+1)
Full Attack: 2 talons +2 melee (1d4+1) and bite +0 melee (1d6)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft. (10 ft./5ft at Large size), (15ft/10ft at Huge size).
Special Attacks: Spell-like abilities
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., immunity to electricity and sonic, resistance to acid 5 (10 at 8 Hit Die) and fire 5 (10 at 8 Hit Die), spell resistance 10+HD
Saves: Fort +2, Ref +4, Will +3
Abilities: Str 12, Dex 15, Con 10, Int 12, Wis 13, Cha 14
Skills: Intimidate +4, Knowledge (nature) +3, Listen +4, Spot +9, survival +3 (+6 above ground)
Feats: Hover, Iron Will
Environment: Temperate deserts
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 1
Alignment: Always chaotic good
Advancement: 8-15 HD (Large); 16–30 HD (Huge); 31–45 HD (Gargantuan)
Level Adjustment: —

Spell-Like Abilities: DCs are Charisma Based. At will—(3/day is better)Fog Cloud at 4 HD, Call Lightning at 6 HD, Shout at 8 HD, (3/day) Call Lightning Storm at 10 HD, Greater Shout at 12 HD, Sandstorm at HD 12, Solid Fog at 8 HD; 1/day—Earthquake at 12 HD. Caster level equals Hit Die.
Skills: Thunderbirds have a +4 racial bonus on Spot
checks.

(Skill breakdown) 12 Skills points at level 1; 2 ranks in intimidate, 2 ranks Knowledge (nature), 3 ranks Listen, 4 ranks Spot, 1 rank Survival.

EDIT: Thought this nugget would be pertinent to this creature, from the rules compendium.
Dive Attack; Flying during a Charge
A creature that flies can make dive attacks. A dive attack works just like a charge, but the diving creature must move a minimum of 30 feet and descend at least 10 feet. It can make only claw or talon attacks, but these deal double damage.

It seems better than some of the other Druid level 1 animal companions. So basically as she levels it will get HP and it's special abilities. How many skill points does it get per level? 2+Int?

[andromax]

It seems better than some of the other Druid level 1 animal companions. So basically as she levels it will get HP and it's special abilities. How many skill points does it get per level? 2+Int?

Yep, every level it will gain 1 BAB, d10 HD, appropriate saves, etc, & 2+int Skill points (however since it's a familiar it may use the Master's ranks in any skill, and it's own ability mod, instead of it's own skill ranks.)

[Oko and Qailee]

Yep, every level it will gain 1 BAB, d10 HD, appropriate saves, etc, & 2+int Skill points (however since it's a familiar it may use the Master's ranks in any skill, and it's own ability mod, instead of it's own skill ranks.)

You're the best. Ty!!!

[Dsurion]

Many thanks to andromax. I'm crap at writing monsters and seeing a clear example of reverse engineering a monster, rather than just being referred to the tables in the Monster Manual, is a huge help.

[Phelix-Mu]

Yep, every level it will gain 1 BAB, d10 HD, appropriate saves, etc, & 2+int Skill points (however since it's a familiar it may use the Master's ranks in any skill, and it's own ability mod, instead of it's own skill ranks.)

If it's a familiar, it won't "level up." Rather you apply the changes described in the Familiar sidebar in PHB to the base monster, with possible modifications as indicated by Improved Familiar, if that is the method used to acquire it. All changes to the "thunderbird's" stats come from it's nature as a familiar, as it will never gain hit dice or other inherent improvements as the class feature improves.

[andromax]

If it's a familiar, it won't "level up." Rather you apply the changes described in the Familiar sidebar in PHB to the base monster, with possible modifications as indicated by Improved Familiar, if that is the method used to acquire it. All changes to the "thunderbird's" stats come from it's nature as a familiar, as it will never gain hit dice or other inherent improvements as the class feature improves.

You could do that, but it would still gain Hit Die, since;


Familiar Basics
Hit Dice
For the purpose of effects related to number of Hit Dice, use the master’s character level or the familiar’s normal HD total, whichever is higher.
And since we're talking about a totally custom Familiar (that is tantamount to an animal companion) with it's own specific advancements, it may be prudent to allow the normal HD advancement rather than the familiar advancement.