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Devronq
2013-02-12, 01:18 AM
So spells such as bulls strength and bears endurance give an enhancement bonus to ability scores so they soon become pointless as they dont stack with the enhancement bonus that magic items give. They dont stack right just checking?

Real question are there any spells that give a bonus to an ability score that is a type different than an enhancement bonus so they can stack?

Hikarizu
2013-02-12, 01:47 AM
Most magic items give enhancement bonus, just like Animal's X spells. The only types of bonuses that stacks are untyped and dodge bonuses(I think). So, no, enhancement doesn't stack.

Bless (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/bless.htm) and Inspire Courage (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/bard.htm#inspireCourage) both provide morale bonuses and don't stack.

Enlarge Person (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/enlargePerson.htm) stacks with Bull's Strength (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/bullsStrength.htm), because the first bonus is size and the other enhancement

Carth
2013-02-12, 01:51 AM
So spells such as bulls strength and bears endurance give an enhancement bonus to ability scores so they soon become pointless as they dont stack with the enhancement bonus that magic items give. They dont stack right just checking?

Real question are there any spells that give a bonus to an ability score that is a type different than an enhancement bonus so they can stack?

There are lots of things that do what you want. Is there a particular score that you're looking to optimize?

SowZ
2013-02-12, 02:17 AM
Snowsong for a Charisma morale boost. Also a significant AC boost.

JeminiZero
2013-02-12, 02:41 AM
Elation [BoED] gives Morale bonus to Strength and Dexterity, and so stacks with Bull Strength/Common Magic Items.

ericgrau
2013-02-12, 04:46 AM
Owl's insight (spell compendium) gives a big insight bonus to wisdom and it lasts an hour IIRC.

Which ability score are you trying to improve?

Aharon
2013-02-12, 04:50 AM
Douglas used a huge list of buffs for his Grinder Team Solar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188138). Some of them are Enhancement-Bonuses, others have different types. It also shows which spells have enhancement bonuses that are a lot higher than those usually gained from items.

Here it is, for your convenience:

Ability Scores:
Base strength = 28 (Shapechange to Solar)
//+8 enhancement strength (Divine Power, Ability Enhancer)
//+6 enhancement strength (Stone Body, Ability Enhancer)
//+6 enhancement strength(Chasing Perfection, Ability Enhancer)
+20 enhancement strength (Bite of the Werebear, Ability Enhancer, Horn of Gorgon)
+6 untyped strength when using arms (Girallon's Blessing + Fused Arms, Horn of Gorgon)
+6 sacred strength (Holy Transformation, Horn of Gorgon)
+6 untyped strength (Greater Visage of the Deity, Horn of Gorgon)
+4 morale strength (Elation, Horn of Gorgon)
Base dexterity = 20 (Shapechange to Solar)
//+4 enhancement dexterity (Bite of the Werebear, Ability Enhancer)
//+4 enhancement dexterity (Sirine's Grace)
//+6 enhancement desterity (Chasing Perfection, Ability Enhancer)
+12 enhancement dexterity (Divine Agility)
+4 sacred dexterity (Inner Beauty)
+2 untyped dexterity (Greater Visage of the Deity)
+2 morale dexterity (Elation)
-4 untyped dexterity (Stone Body)
Base constitution = 20 (Shapechange to Solar)
//+6 enhancement constitution (Chasing Perfection, Ability Enhancer)
+10 enhancement constitution (Bite of the Werebear, Ability Enhancer)
+4 sacred constitution (Holy Transformation)
+4 untyped constitution (Greater Visage of the Deity)
-2 constitution (Death Pact)
+6 enhancement intelligence (Chasing Perfection, Ability Enhancer)
+2 untyped intelligence (Greater Visage of the Deity)
+6 enhancement wisdom (Chasing Perfection, Ability Enhancer)
+20 insight wisdom (Owl's Insight)
+4 untyped wisdom (Greater Visage of the Deity)
//+4 enhancement charisma (Sirine's Grace)
+6 enhancement charisma (Chasing Perfection, Ability Enhancer)
+4 sacred charisma (Inner Beauty)
+4 untyped charisma (Greater Visage of the Deity)

Initiative:
+5 competence (Primal Instinct)

Attack Bonus:
BAB = level (Divine Power)
//+1 morale (Aid)
//+1 morale (Heroes' Feast)
//+2 morale (Good Hope)
//+4 morale (Greater Heroism)
+10 morale (Nature's Avatar)
//+1 luck (Prayer)
//+2(3) luck (Recitation)
+5 luck (Nature's Favor)
+5 enhancement (Greater Magic Weapon)
+1 competence (Ioun Stone)
+1 untyped (Haste, from Nature's Avatar)
+1 circumstance (Focusing Chant)
+1 untyped for followers of Mystra or Ehlonna (Interfaith Blessing)
+2 untyped for follower of Heironeous (Interfaith Blessing)
Doubled crit range, crits auto-confirm (Dolorous Blow)
range increment +50% for ranged attacks (Hawkeye)
weapons are returning (Hurl)
full attack when charging (Lion's Charge)
Extra +2 on first charge attack, no AC penalty for charging (Crabwalk)
Extra attack in full attack (Haste, from Nature's Avatar)
Melee attacks are touch attacks (Wraithstrike)
Roll twice, take better (Choose Destiny)

Damage Bonus:
//+1 luck (Prayer)
+5 luck (Nature's Favor)
//+2 morale (Good Hope)
+10 morale (Nature's Avatar)
+5 enhancement (Greater Magic Weapon)
overcome DR as good and epic (Shapechange to Solar)
+xd6, x = size categories target is larger than me (Fell the Greatest Foe)
overcome DR as good (Blessing of the Righteous)
+1d6 sonic (Sonic Weapon)
+1d6 holy (Blessing of the Righteous)

AC:
+21 natural (Shapechange to Solar)
+9 enhancement natural (Bite of the Werebear, Guardinal Feather)
+4 insight (Foresight, Guardinal Feather)
+8 armor (Greater Mage Armor, Guardinal Feather)
+6 shield (Shield, Guardinal Feather)
+charisma+2 as deflection (Sirine's Grace, Guardinal Feather)
+wisdom+1 (Monk's Belt)
+3 morale (Divine Protection, Guardinal Feather)
+8 circumstance (Holy Star, Guardinal Feather)
+3 dodge (Haste, from Nature's Avatar, Guardinal Feather)
+4 (5 for followers of Mystra) luck (Recitation, Guardinal Feather)
+6 sacred (Exalted Raiment, Guardinal Feather)
+1 untyped for followers of Ehlonna (Interfaith Blessing)
+1 dodge while flying (Aerial Alacrity)
Don't lost dex when flat-footed or attacked by invis (Wild Instincts)
Can't be flanked (Tojanida Sight)

DR:
15/epic and evil (Shapechange to Solar)
//5/evil (Holy Transformation)
//10/evil (Exalted Raiment)
10/adamantine (Stone Body)

Regen/fast healing:
regeneration 15/epic and evil weapons or [evil] spells and effects (Shapechange to Solar)
Fast Healing 5 (Greater Vigor)

SR:
32 (Shapechange to Solar)
25 (Exalted Raiment)

Saves:
//+1 morale vs fear (Aid)
//+1 morale will (Heroes' Feast)
//+1 morale (Divine Protection)
//+2 morale (Good Hope)
//+4 morale (Greater Heroism)
+5 morale (Conviction)
+2 insight reflex (Foresight)
//+1 luck (Prayer)
//+2(3) luck (Recitation)
+charisma as luck (Ruin Delver's Fortune)
//+4 racial vs poison (Shapechange to Solar)
+1 competence (Ioun Stone)
+4 sacred (Holy Transformation)
+1 dodge reflex (Haste, from Nature's Avatar)
+1 dodge reflex while flying (Aerial Alacrity)
//+5 resistance reflex (Primal Speed)
+6 resistance (Superior Resistance)
evasion (Ruin Delver's Fortune)
Roll twice, take better (Choose Destiny)

Skills:
Trapfinding, +10 insight on searching for traps (Find Traps)
+2 morale, also on ability checks (Good Hope)
+4 morale (Greater Heroism)
//+10 enhancement jump (Heart of Air)
+30 enhancement jump (Jump)
+5 enhancement escape artist (Heart of Water)
+1 luck (Prayer)
+10 circumstance hide (Chameleon)
+1 circumstance, also on ability checks (Focusing Chant)
+8 competence swim, can always take 10 on swim (Swim)
//+5 competence spot (Hawkeye)
+2 competence handle animal, hide, move silently, search, survival, wild empathy (One With the Land)
//+2 competence climb (Surefooted Stride)
+5 competence spellcraft for identifying spellcasting (Battlemagic Perception)
+5 competence climb, jump, swim (Primal Hunter)
+5 competence survival (Primal Instinct)
+5 competence listen and spot (Primal Senses)
+1 competence, also on ability checks (Ioun Stone)
+8 racial spot (Eyes of the Avoral)
//+4 insight all knowledge (Spiritual Adviser)
+10 insight all knowledge (Lore of the Gods)
+10 insight spot and listen (Wild Instincts)
+2 untyped listen and spot (Embrace the Wild)
+8 untyped hide, jump, listen, spot, survival (Essence of the Raptor)
+8 untyped perform (Sirine's Grace)
+1 untyped for followers of Mystra (Interfaith Blessing)
+4 untyped spot and search (Tojanida Sight)
-4 (Empyreal Ecstasy, via Miracle)
no penalty on balance, climb, hide, move silently, or tumble for moving at full speed (Accelerated Movement)
All knowledge skills are trained (Spiritual Adviser)
Roll twice, take better, also on ability checks (Choose Destiny)

Temp hp:
1d8+10 (Aid) (maximized)
caster level (Divine Power) (CL 33)
1d8+10 (Heroes' Feast) (maximized)
20 (Greater Heroism)
1d8/caster level (Nature's Avatar) (CL 33) (maximized)
30 (Heart of Earth)

Misc Defenses:
Miss chance vs attacks and targeted spells, half damage from AoE and falling (Greater Blink)
20% miss chance vs ranged attacks (Entropic Shield)
50% miss chance vs nonmagical attacks, 20% vs magic (as if partially incorporeal) (Shadow Phase)
Total concealment (Displacement)
Warned of danger, never flat-footed or surprised (Foresight)
Type = Outsider (Angel, Good, Fire) (Shapechange to Solar, Elemental Body)
20' radius Magic Circle Against Evil and Lesser Globe of Invulnerability (Shapechange to Solar)
10 levels of Spell Turning
cleric notified of everyone's position and condition (Status)
Breath water (Sirine's Grace, Heart of Water, Transformation of the Deeps)
Dispelling Buffer (via Miracle)
Contingent Heal (Fortunate Fate)
Evil creatures within 10' take -2 on attacks and saves (Holy Transformation)
Native planar environment (Planar Bubble)
Contingent True Resurrection (Death Pact)
Contingent Panacea (Renewal Pact)
Contingent +35 hp when reduced to half normal (Stalwart Pact)
1d6+caster level sonic melee damage return (Wounding Whispers)
+4 vs bull rush, overrun, trip (Steadfast Boots)
+8 vs bull rush, overrun, trip (Heart of Earth)
Two-handed weapons always readied against charge (Steadfast Boots)
half damage from melee/ranged attacks (Empyreal Ecstasy, via Miracle)
reflex DC 15 for half damage vs magic weapons, immune to non-magic (Starmantle)
4d6 force damage return (Justice of the Wyrm King)
Improved Uncanny Dodge (Primal Hunter/Instinct/Senses/Speed)
Can't be flanked, can't avert eyes vs gaze attacks (Tojanida Sight)

Immunities/resistances:
Death spells, magical death effects, energy drain, negative energy (Death Ward)
Endure Elements
Grapple, paralysis, magical movement impediment (Freedom of Movement)
Penalties for underwater fighting (Freedom of Movement, Sirine's Grace)
Poison (Heroes' Feast, Elemental Body, Ruin Delver's Fortune, Stone Body)
Sleep (Elemental Body)
Paralysis (Elemental Body)
Stunning (Elemental Body, Stone Body)
Critical hits (Elemental Body, Heart of Air/Water/Earth/Fire, Stone Body)
Fire (Elemental Body)
Fear (Heroes' Feast, Greater Heroism, Ruin Delver's Fortune)
Acid, cold (Shapechange to Solar, Energy Immunity)
petrification (Shapechange to Solar)
Fire and electricity resistance 10 (Shapechange to Solar)
Blasphemy, Dictum, Word of Chaos, Word of Balance, Stone to Flesh, Dimensional Lock (Greater Spell Immunity)
Rust (Gauntlet of Rust)
Harmful vapors and gasses, vacuum (Necklace of Adaptation)
Never run out of air (Deep Breath)
Electricity and Sonic damage (Energy Immunity)
Metal (Ironguard)
Ranged touch attacks (Ray Deflection)
Fatigue, exhaustion, ability damage, ability drain (Sheltered Vitality)
Ability damage (Stone Body)
Thrown and projectile ranged attacks (Stormrage)
Wind, both natural and magical (Stormrage)
Difficult terrain (Surefooted Stride)
Disease (Greater Visage of the Deity, Stone Body)
Mind-affecting (Empyreal Ecstasy, via Miracle)
Blindness, deafness, drowning (Stone Body)
Spells/attacks that affect physiology or respiration (Stone Body)
Damage from temperature and pressure of deep water (Transformation of the Deeps)

Movement:
Base speed = 60' (Essence of the Raptor)
//+10' enhancement (Primal Speed)
+30' enhancement speed (Haste, from Nature's Avatar)
+5' untyped (Elation)
+50' untyped (Footsteps of the Divine)
Base land speed = 145
1/2 speed (Stone Body)
3/4 speed, walk through walls (Greater Blink)
Land Speed = 55

Fly:
//fly 40' (Stormrage)
//Fly 60' good (Fly)
Fly = x2 land (290), good (Greater Visage of the Deity)
+30' untyped fly (Cloud Wings)
+30' untyped fly (Aerial Alacrity)
+1 maneuverability (Aerial Alacrity)
Base fly = 350
Fly speed = 130

Swim:
//60' swim (Sirine's Grace)
swim = land speed (145) (Heart of Water)
+30' untyped swim (Wings of the Sea)
Base swim = 175
Swim speed = 65

Burrow:
30' burrow (Burrow)
+20' untyped burrow (Rapid Burrowing)
+30' enhancement (Haste, from Nature's Avatar)
+5' untyped (Elation)
+50' untyped (Footsteps of the Divine)
Base burrow = 135
Burrow speed = 50

Special:
Close range teleport as move action that ends turn (Greater Dimension Door)
60' teleport with line of sight as swift action (Greater Dimension Jumper)
Don't provoke AoOs for moving (Lightfoot)
move through ice and snow (Pass Through Ice)
move through stone or earth as easily as water (Earth Glide)

Senses:
Detect Magic
Read Magic
Greater Arcane Sight
//Darkvision 60' (Shapechange to Solar, Elemental Body, Holy Transformation, Transformation of the Deeps)
Darkvision 10'/caster level (Dragonsight) (CL 30)
Low Light vision (Shapechange to Solar)
Detect Scrying
Detect Secret Doors
Detect Undead
Invisibility Purge
See Invisibility
True Seeing
Analyze Portal
Blindsight 60' (Greater Blindsight)
//blindsense 30' (Embrace the Wild)
double-strength low-light vision (Dragonsight)
Blindsense 5'/caster level (Dragonsight) (CL 30)
Ignore natural and magical darkness (Ebon Eyes)
Scent (Essence of the Raptor)
Warning of danger (Foresight)
Telepathy within party, even across planes (Interplanar Telepathic Bond)
Know shortest direction to place of "safety" (Safety)
Tremorsense 30' (Tremorsense)
Automatically recognize spells being cast in line of sight, and know caster level (Spellcaster's Bane)
Ignore snow glare/whiteout (Snowsight)
Automatically detect all spellcasting (including SLAs) within 100' with line of effect (Battlemagic Perception)
all-around vision (Tojanida Sight)

Caster Level:
+1 (Orange Prism Ioun Stone)
+4 buffing only (Bead of Karma)
+1 (Create Magic Tattoo)
+2 divine casters only (Hymn of Praise)
+2 one spell/casting (Spell Enhancer)
+1 one spell/casting (Mystic Surge)
+2 morale short duration (Harmonic Chorus)
+4 one spell w/double spell slot, 3/day divine only (Ankh of Ascension)
+5 Suffer the Flesh
+5 Dispelling Buffer (for dispel DC only)
+4 Ring of Enduring Arcana (for dispel DC only)
+2 insight for counterspell/dispel, direct to check so ignores cap (Spellcaster's Bane)

Misc:
Tongues (Shapechange to Solar, Tongues)
Power Attack and Blind-Fight as bonus feats (Bite of the Werebear)
10d6 electricity attack at 100' range at will (Stormrage) (maximize)
Earth Lock, Earthquake, Excavate, Flesh to Stone, Meld into Stone, Move Earth, Reverse Gravity, Soften Earth and Stone, Statue, Stone Shape, Stone Tell, Stone to Flesh, Transmute Mud to Rock, Transmute Rock to Mud, Tunnel Swallow, Wall of Stone, and Xorn Movement at will (Undermaster)
Feather Fall as immediate (discharges Heart of Air)
Stoneskin as swift for 1 round/level (discharges Heart of Earth)
Fire Shield as swift for 1 round/level (discharges Heart of Fire)
Freedom of Movement as swift for 1 round/level (discharges Heart of Water)
Transmute rock to mud = no save slow for 2d6 rounds (Stone Body)
Transmute mud to rock = full heal (Stone Body)
Stone to Flesh = dispel Stone Body (Stone Body)
Can counter a spell as a free action at the cost of ending Battlemagic Perception (Battlemagic Perception)
Whenever a spell is cast within 20', heal 1 hp per level of the spell (Magic Convalescence)
Arcane spells are quickened (Arcane Spellsurge)
10d6 fire, electricity, cold, or acid attack at 60' range at will (Glorious Master of the Elements) (maximize)

He used several components and the feat Ability Enhancer to get greater results from some of the spells, and he used Shapechange (Symbiont) to share otherwise personal spells.