If time travel were invented

[AshesOfOld]

Let's say that some time in the immediate future time travel is invented. Problem is, it's horribly expensive, and only charter travels for the extremely rich are possible.
However, as the technology is refined it becomes cheaper, launching the new, ridiculously popular "Seven for Onetm" tour, allowing you to design your own time holiday, travelling back in time to watch their ten favorite historical moments, in relative safety from the background.

So. How would you design your "Seven for Onetm" time traveller's holiday?
There are only a few rules:
1) You may not travel into the future. It is too uncertain.
2) You may not travel back to see or meet yourself. The consequences are unforeseen, and we cannot have everybody winning the lottery in the past all the time.
3) You can't go somewhere too dangerous, the french revolution is great and all, but we can't have you and your Personal Time Techniciantm run down in the streets.
4) It has to be a specific event, and you'd need a speficic place to stand as well.

That's it, have fun with it! And if you're interested, here's my personal top seven:
Not prioritized:
1 - The moon landing, from NASA.
2 - A medieval jousting tournament, from the nobles' audience seatings.
3 - A James Brown concert, a few metres into the audience.
4 - The opening of the Collosseum, from a good seat.
5 - The battle of Agincourt, from a safe distance.
6 - The battle of Hastings, from a safe distance.
7 - The Deep Purple live in Japan, a few metres into the audience.

[Altair_the_Vexed]

I'd like to stipulate that at the same time that Time Travel is available, the Translat-o-Tron universal translator is also available for time tourists. I don't speak Ancient Egyptian, otherwise.

There are some events I'd like to attend, but they are certainly in the realm of the religious, so I'll leave them out.

1 - The moment when the dinosaur footprints, that I saw fossilised in Dorset when I was a kid, were laid down - from close enough to see the beasties, but not so close as to disturb them
2 - Building of the Great Pyramid of Giza, close enough to see what's going on
3 - Aristotle's school in Macedonia, during Alexander's tutelage, right among discussion
4 - At the founding of the Tynwald government by the Norse on the Isle of Man, so I could tell them that their quasi-democracy would last a thousand years without end
5 - Marco Polo's arrival at the court of Kublai Khan, among the Khan's entourage
6 - When my mum and dad met for their first date at the Royal Albert Hall and Beethoven's Ninth, from close enough to discretely watch
7 - My university course, which I utterly and completely failed to attend through mental health issues (so I would never risk seeing myself) - so I could get the qualification I was aiming for after all (at 41, it might be hard to convince my tutors that I'm still 18, though)

[Grinner]

In this scenario, is time predetermined and stable? (i.e. If I go back in time and kill a butterfly, it won't matter, because I was destined to do that anyway.)

Or do I run the risk of drastically altering history by just being there?

[Dr.Epic]

Dude, where have you been? Time travel was invented like 10 years ago. Problem is, someone went back in time even further and killed the guy who was supposed to invent it.

[Heliomance]

One of them would have to be the founding of the Bank of England, so I could make a small deposit and reap the proceeds of compound interest when I get home.

[Lentrax]

Assuming time is fixed, and my actions have no effect whatsoever on the present?

I would like to see the following:

The fall of Rome.
The construction of the Great Wall.(Some of it, anyway.)
To visit Chicago during the Twenties.

[Altair_the_Vexed]

In this scenario, is time predetermined and stable? (i.e. If I go back in time and kill a butterfly, it won't matter, because I was destined to do that anyway.)

Or do I run the risk of drastically altering history by just being there?
I assumed time was fixed, and you can' alter anything - otherwise, how will time then flow to the point where you exist to go back in time to do anything? The slightest changes can have enormous knock on effects.

[Jay R]

In no particular order:

1. Opening performance of Romeo and Juliet (or, if necessary, Twelfth Night, Hamlet, or Henry V).
2. Pericles' funeral oration.
3. Dying speech of Charles I.
4. Patton's speech to the troops.
5. A performance of Thespis (the Gilbert and Sullivan operetta whose score was lost).
6. Queen Elizabeth's speech to the troops at Tilbury.
7. A Lincoln-Douglas debate.

(Yes, I know it's England-and-America heavy, but I'm going to have to learn classical Greek for #2, and get used to Elizabethan English for 1, 6, and probably 3. That's all the research I plan to do before a vacation.)

Frustratingly not making the cut: an oration by Cicero, a peripatetic lecture by Aristotle, the last debate on independency in the Continental Congress, a meeting of the Inklings, a Feynman lecture, a Socratic dialog, and the opening night of the play Peter Pan, when nobody in the audience knows the story.

[Karoht]

1-When Sir William Marshal was captured by Guy de Lusignon and was denied medical aid. I would show up with a pair of beers disguised as one of Lusignon's attendants. Sit down, drink a beer with my hero, and laugh about how Lusignon is a major douche.
2-If I can't do the above, seeing Sir William Marshal knighted.

[Alejandro]

I can tell you one thing, the world's religions would either collapse or become extremely powerful, real quick.

[Thajocoth]

The inventor would be stopped (convinced not to invent it or killed) by someone with memories of a future that will never happen.

Reason:

At time T time travel is invented. Time is infinite, so there is infinite time after T, and therefore infinite people with time travel.

There is a chance C that someone in the future will have reason to want time travel to not be possible & have the resources to access a time travel device.

Applying chance C to an infinite population... By the basic laws of statistics, C is certain to happen. 100% certainty.


This is why time travel is impossible. It destroys itself.

And for those who would cry "paradox!" at this, the universe won't care... The old copy of the future will simply be clipped off and never happen. The new future will write in it's place. As far as the universe knows, the time traveler that stops time travel spontaneously existed. If it was possible to create a paradox, then it would be a certainty to happen, given infinite travels through time by infinite people, no matter how careful people are. We still exist, so the universe hasn't/will not be destroyed by a paradox.

[Anarion]

Correct grammar: If time travel were invented.

Right, with that out of the way.

1. Front row seat for Martin Luther King's "I have a Dream" speech.
2. Trinity nuclear test with all the scientists to watch the explosion of the atom bomb
3. A seat on the train with Lincoln to chat while he prepared the Gettysburg address (which would not be changed).
4. A seat at the debates when they wrote the constitution, probably some time around the middle when they really hashing it out.
5. A chat with Julius Caesar in his tent during the invasion of Gaul, ideally right after he had moved the troops miraculously fast to win several critical battles.
6. A talk with Tokugawa Ieyasu right after he ascended to the Shogunate and declared peace throughout Japan.
7. A chance to speak with Plato during the authoring of one of his socratic dialogues.

[bbgenderless100]

Let's say that some time in the immediate future time travel is invented. Problem is, it's horribly expensive, and only charter travels for the extremely rich are possible.
However, as the technology is refined it becomes cheaper, launching the new, ridiculously popular "Seven for Onetm" tour, allowing you to design your own time holiday, travelling back in time to watch their ten favorite historical moments, in relative safety from the background.

So. How would you design your "Seven for Onetm" time traveller's holiday?
There are only a few rules:
1) You may not travel into the future. It is too uncertain.
2) You may not travel back to see or meet yourself. The consequences are unforeseen, and we cannot have everybody winning the lottery in the past all the time.
3) You can't go somewhere too dangerous, the french revolution is great and all, but we can't have you and your Personal Time Techniciantm run down in the streets.
4) It has to be a specific event, and you'd need a speficic place to stand as well.

That's it, have fun with it! And if you're interested, here's my personal top seven:
Not prioritized:
1 - The moon landing, from NASA.
2 - A medieval jousting tournament, from the nobles' audience seatings.
3 - A James Brown concert, a few metres into the audience.
4 - The opening of the Collosseum, from a good seat.
5 - The battle of Agincourt, from a safe distance.
6 - The battle of Hastings, from a safe distance.
7 - The Deep Purple live in Japan, a few metres into the audience.


1.The Coca Cola Factory, right beside the machine that produced Vanilla Coke.

2.A Saliva Concert from 2002, in the audience.

3. A WWF event from 2001, in the audience.

4.World war 2 from a safe distance.

5.7 eleven when it is was here in my city, beside the slurpee machine that had the cappuccino slurpee.

6.In the audience for a friends episode from 1994.

7.Pink floyd Concert from the 1970's in the audience.

[AshesOfOld]

Damn, there are some good ones here :smallsmile: Didn't even cross my mind with the speeches. It would be nice to hear Martin Luther King's speech from the audience, even though you can see it on tv.

Altair: Of course, the Translate-O-Tron came just a few years before time travel. This naturally led to a lot of wars because people understood the insults they got from everyone else.

Grinner: Yes, I imagine this scenario's time to be relatively stable. You're not allowed to go kill a political figure however (and I wouldn't recommend that you do on this forum), but you can safely watch and talk to people.

Heliomance: But when they realize your old self must be dead a hundred years later, and since you have no living relatives (yet), won't they just take the money back before you're born and able to use it?

Anarion: Damned second language. I can fix that, right?

[scurv]

1- I would be at the grassy knoll to check it when kennedy got shot
2- I would watch tesla!
3- I would watch the training of the 1979 hockey Olympics team
4- I would spend a time to study the new-world before it got wiped out
5- I would check it in time to watch human evolution

[Amidus Drexel]

So, really, this boils down to which bands do I want to see live, with the benefit of knowing what concerts were spectacular beforehand.

1. Woodstock, obviously. 1969
2. Pink Floyd in Pompeii, 1972
3. Led Zeppelin @ Royal Albert Hall, England 1969
4. The Doors @ Hollywood bowl, CA 1970 (I think)
5. King Crimson, at pretty much any show they played. England ~1969

I probably should do something besides just listen to music...

6. See one of Tesla's demonstrations; I bet those were impressive.
7. Any 7/11 in the world, on July 11th. I always forget about that. :smallannoyed:

[Asta Kask]

What happened on 11th July?

[Amidus Drexel]

What happened on 11th July?

They offer (or they did, anyway) one free slurpee/person. (I'm assuming you still have to buy something). I've missed it several years in a row.

[Heliomance]

Heliomance: But when they realize your old self must be dead a hundred years later, and since you have no living relatives (yet), won't they just take the money back before you're born and able to use it?

Of course they'll take it and use it; that's how banks work and why they offer interest. If I can produce valid documentation for it and give them an appropriate notice period, though, I'm pretty certain they'll have to pull the money together.

[Grinner]

Of course they'll take it and use it; that's how banks work and why they offer interest. If I can produce valid documentation for it and give them an appropriate notice period, though, I'm pretty certain they'll have to pull the money together.

I don't know how the Bank of England works, but my old bank only guaranteed that up to a certain amount. Also, they might be just a wee bit suspicious of the legitimacy of your claim.

[Cuthalion]

7. Any 7/11 in the world, on July 11th. I always forget about that. :smallannoyed:

I know, right?

[Cikomyr]

1. 15th of March, 44BC, Rome, Capitol, the Senate Floor. I wanna be there and take a video.
2. 13 September 1759, Quebec City, the Plains of Abraham. From a safe distance
3. 2nd of December 1804, France, Paris, the Cathedral of Notre-Dame
4. Going to France in 1639, Paris, and conduct a personal interview with the Cardinal de Richelieu
5. 8 April 1952, Montreal Forum; considered by many one of the greatest moment in Hockey History
6. I like the idea of attending Aristotle's Lyceum alongside Alexander.
7. Can I just make a tour of the 7 Wonders of the Mediterranean while they were still standing?

[Heliomance]

I don't know how the Bank of England works, but my old bank only guaranteed that up to a certain amount. Also, they might be just a wee bit suspicious of the legitimacy of your claim.

This is what the valid documentation is for. If you can prove ownership, then they'd have to give you the money, otherwise it's theft.

[AshesOfOld]

This is what the valid documentation is for. If you can prove ownership, then they'd have to give you the money, otherwise it's theft.

Yeah, but they'd probably have some tiny paragraph somewhere stating that if a personal bank account reaches more than 150 years of age without a family member claiming ownership, the bank is entitled to the money. Banks are mean.
What you could do, though, was use your Seven-for-One trip on seven trips to the bank, each millenium, withdraw your money, and then deposit it under a different name.

... Now I just thought of something else. With the inflation rate going on for hundreds of years, wouldn't you have gained very little profit over the centuries?

[Morph Bark]

At time T time travel is invented. Time is infinite, so there is infinite time after T, and therefore infinite people with time travel.

Not true. If there is an end to the universe, time is finite. Even if time is infinite, there is a chance that humanity will one day cease to exist, and with infinite time, that chance will become 100%, according to your math.

[Thajocoth]

Not true. If there is an end to the universe, time is finite. Even if time is infinite, there is a chance that humanity will one day cease to exist, and with infinite time, that chance will become 100%, according to your math.

There is no chance that mankind will cease to exist. Not even negligible. It's 0. Over infinite time, it won't occur. We've passed a technological no-return point.

There's a higher chance of mermaids & unicorns existing in the future than of mankind ceasing to.

We could evolve though.

[Jay R]

There is no chance that mankind will cease to exist. Not even negligible. It's 0. Over infinite time, it won't occur. We've passed a technological no-return point.

There's a higher chance of mermaids & unicorns existing in the future than of mankind ceasing to.

We could evolve though.

First, consider the possibility of a giant asteroid. It's quite possible that mankind will cease to exist this year.

Then, consider the possibility of a higher-tech genocidal race with space travel.

If nothing else works, there is still the irreversible flow of entropy.

Mankind will someday cease to exist. The universe will cease to exist. No serious scientist denies this.

[Grinner]

First, consider the possibility of a giant asteroid. It's quite possible that mankind will cease to exist this year.

I was just thinking about this, Googled it, and you (http://earthsky.org/space/asteroid-2012-da14-will-pass-very-close-to-earth-in-2013) might (www.usatoday.com/story/tech/sciencefair/2013/01/08/apophis-2013/1818045/) be (www.cbsnews.com/8301-205_162-57558567/asteroid-passes-inside-moons-orbit-buzzes-earth/) surprised (www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/08/asteroid-to-pass-earth-tuesday_n_1081506.html) by (http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news169.html) how (www.telegraph.co.uk/science/space/8494145/Giant-asteroid-heading-close-to-Earth.html) often (www.space.com/11310-huge-asteroid-2005-yu55-passing-earth-november.html) meteors (news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/03/090302-asteroid-earth.html) pass (www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1226672/Asteroid-scrapes-past-Earth-just-8-700miles-away--15-hours-warning.html) Earth (articles.cnn.com/2009-03-03/tech/asteroid.misses.earth_1_asteroids-deep-impact-earth?_s=PM:TECH).

[Asta Kask]

We're in no immediate danger. Probably.

[Dr.Epic]

If I had a time machine I'd go back in time to when I first got he time machine and destroy it that way there would be no temporal paradoxes. Truly I am the smartest genius ever!

[Grinner]

If I had a time machine I'd go back in time to when I first got he time machine and destroy it that way there would be no temporal paradoxes. Truly I am the smartest genius ever!

I saw what you did there. :smallwink:

[TheEmerged]

The problem is that most of mine would run afoul of the "not dangerous" rule. Most of what I'd want to see are mystery\crime scenes or disaster scenarios so I could record what really happened. That's why I've long stated I would want the ability to view\record the past, not visit it :smallamused:

Some samples, no order implied
1> November 22, 1963 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JFK_assasination), the Texas School Book Depository, 6th floor, in time to be hidden/etc before 12:29pm local time.
2> Feb 1, 1922 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Desmond_Taylor), again in time to be in place/hidden before 7pm or so.
3>June 12, 1994 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O._J._Simpson_murder_case). blah blah hidden blah blah...
4>April 14, 1912, blah blah hidden blah blah... Specifically, I'd want to be in the control room to clear up the disagreements about foreward\reverse.
5>...and if I can stay around safely, I'd like to stick around long enough to find out who was giving what orders with the boats. Remember, I can't change history so I can't try to save anybody but I've long wondered why the rules were so different on the port vs starboard sides of the ship.

[Dr.Epic]

I saw what you did there. :smallwink:

Yeah! It's gonna be more awesome than that one time I counted to infinity!

[The_Final_Stand]

I propose the following:

10 Spend a week paying very close attention to the stock market. Its rising, falling, what have you. Also check the lottery.
20 Travel back in time, armed with the knowledge of what the stock market will do and a lottery ticket.
30 Profit via stable time loop.
40 Repeat 6 more times.
50 Use money to buy 7 more jumps.
60 goto 10

Alternatively, if this Temporal Stock Broker deal doesn't work out for some reason:

1. Learn German, then go and hear Albert Einstein's last words.
2. What happened to Greek Fire, anyway?
3. Take a picture of the Sphinx with her nose.
4. Other such things that were thought lost forever. Let's be useful with our time travel, shall we?

[Heliomance]

There is no chance that mankind will cease to exist. Not even negligible. It's 0. Over infinite time, it won't occur. We've passed a technological no-return point.

There's a higher chance of mermaids & unicorns existing in the future than of mankind ceasing to.

We could evolve though.

Rubbish. As long as we're all on the same planet, a single extinction level event could wipe out humanity easily. Once we start colonising other planets, the chance drops massively, but it's still conceivable as long as we're all in the same solar system - something could happen to the sun. Once we have extra solar colonisation, the chances of humanity ceasing to exist are indeed absolutely minuscule, but they're still not zero. At that point though about the only thing I can think of that would have a chance is a vastly more advanced and genocidal alien race. Or a universal machine uprising, but we'd have to be pretty damn stupid to let that happen considering how much scifi we have that covers that scenario.

[Morph Bark]

There is no chance that mankind will cease to exist. Not even negligible. It's 0. Over infinite time, it won't occur. We've passed a technological no-return point.

There's a higher chance of mermaids & unicorns existing in the future than of mankind ceasing to.

Not sure if serious.

[Jay R]

Yeah! It's gonna be more awesome than that one time I counted to infinity!

I tried this counting backwards from infinity once. Got halfway through and lost interest.

[warty goblin]

I tried this counting backwards from infinity once. Got halfway through and lost interest.

I do mathematics and statistics. I count to infinity pretty much daily. Then I apply a result true at infinity to forty data points.

[Dr.Epic]

I tried this counting backwards from infinity once. Got halfway through and lost interest.

If there's two things I hate it's the number two and the concept of hatred!

:smalltongue: