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Chaos018
2013-02-12, 01:21 PM
Hello, I am new to the race creation gig, and was hoping your input as to if this race was CR.5, LA +0. For the moment, I call them Pseudo-ants

Actually, in my trying to make a race, I did use Dromites more as a reference, trying to strip much to make it LA +0, even changing the stats.

Here's what I got

"Pseudo-ants" (No true name right now, I just call them this for the time being)
Small Outsider (native) (with the standard bonuses and disadvantages of this size minus carrying capacity)
20ft land speed, burrow speed in soft ground/trees 20ft
+2 Con, -2 Int
-immunity to radiation/poison
-+1 natural armor
-+2 Survive, -2 Bluff
-Darkvision 60ft
-Compound Eyes (racial +2 Spot)
-not slowed down due to terrain or armor w/ carrying capacity same as a Medium creature
-cold sensitivity
--takes more damage from spells of the cold descriptor, Will save DC 18 to remain conscious
--in presence of cold weather (endure elements does not negate), Will save DC 18 to remain conscious without going into hibernation (roll made hourly).
-automatic languages: Common, (insert race name)
--bonus: Dwarven, Gnome, Goblin, Terran, Undercommon, Sylvan, Draconic (these were chosen due to regional distribution due to worldbuilding, seeing as the closest races to these things will speak these languages)
-alignment: heavily lawful, but not restricted to it (society was built with ants in mind, lol, they tend to shun chaos and usually throw out those that show this tendency. Those that return, if they survive outside the colony, may or may not serve their Queen Mother in the outside world, depending on the Queen's disposition)

There is another subspecies of this race that I patterned after the fire ants:

+2 Dex, -2 Int
replace immunity to radiation/poison with just poison with a circumstantial +2 bonus to fort saves dealing w/ radiation (Making saves means no effect) and a partial resistance to fire
replace skill bonus to survive with intimidate, and bluff with diplomacy
gains a natural psi-like ability of an energy ray (fire) (this is negotiable, I am not sure of this. May make this part of a regional feat that I was told will be allowed to each race or nation in this world)

I couldn't find a race that suited the environment of Africa in a setting where the polar ice caps melted, rising sea levels, humidity, and the overall planetary temperature. Dromites came closest. Thanks, any advice is certainly welcomed, :)

Chaos018
2013-02-12, 10:22 PM
so no one has any thoughts or anything? (sigh) And this is the one place I thought I would get some clue

Frathe
2013-02-12, 11:15 PM
so no one has any thoughts or anything? (sigh) And this is the one place I thought I would get some clue

People often take some time to respond. Did you wait a day or two?

The race mostly looks good. I'm not sure what the "radiation" they're immune to is; it that energy damage, or is that a homebrew energy type to fit the apparently post-apocalyptic setting? By cold sensitivity, do you mean vulnerability to cold (+50% damage)? Just a thought, if they have antlike lower bodies they could have a carrying capacity as a Quadruped (for Medium creatures, 1 that of a Medium biped). Seven bonus languages is a lot; you might want to reduce it to six (the number elves and dwarves have). I'd take out Sylvan or Draconic. Also, the list of bonus languages should be alphabetized (just a formatting thing, all otherwise unordered lists get put in alphabetical order). The Will save or go unconscious against cold seems too harsh, especially at earlier levels; I'd at least lower the DC significantly or take that out altogether. I'm not sure the psi-like fire ray is a good idea; it's maybe a little too specific and elemental-themed to give every member of an ant-themed race. All in all, I like this a lot; don't let my long list of complaints/concerns/comments give you the wrong impression; it means I care. Welcome to race creation! I think it'd be cool if you statted up a Psuedo-ant Queen.

Edit: The thread title might not be helpful in netting you views. "Monster creation" sounds like general system work. People are more likely to respond to an ant-like race if they can tell from the thread title that the thread is about an ant-like race. "[3.5] Ant race (PEACH)" might be more helpful. PEACH stands for (approximately) Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly.

Chaos018
2013-02-13, 09:09 AM
People often take some time to respond. Did you wait a day or two?

The race mostly looks good. I'm not sure what the "radiation" they're immune to is; it that energy damage, or is that a homebrew energy type to fit the apparently post-apocalyptic setting? By cold sensitivity, do you mean vulnerability to cold (+50% damage)? Just a thought, if they have antlike lower bodies they could have a carrying capacity as a Quadruped (for Medium creatures, 1 that of a Medium biped). Seven bonus languages is a lot; you might want to reduce it to six (the number elves and dwarves have). I'd take out Sylvan or Draconic. Also, the list of bonus languages should be alphabetized (just a formatting thing, all otherwise unordered lists get put in alphabetical order). The Will save or go unconscious against cold seems too harsh, especially at earlier levels; I'd at least lower the DC significantly or take that out altogether. I'm not sure the psi-like fire ray is a good idea; it's maybe a little too specific and elemental-themed to give every member of an ant-themed race. All in all, I like this a lot; don't let my long list of complaints/concerns/comments give you the wrong impression; it means I care. Welcome to race creation! I think it'd be cool if you statted up a Psuedo-ant Queen.

Edit: The thread title might not be helpful in netting you views. "Monster creation" sounds like general system work. People are more likely to respond to an ant-like race if they can tell from the thread title that the thread is about an ant-like race. "[3.5] Ant race (PEACH)" might be more helpful. PEACH stands for (approximately) Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly.

It was mostly a day, lol. Well, radiation in DnD is basically Con damage poison from the environment, which is indeed setting specific and why I placed the backslash to indicate that it was either or both. The setting is Earth but 200yr after a worldwide catastrophe, nuclear in origin. I am assuming magic kinda had to be involved because the friend I am helping in this world building said Dnd 3.5 races were created from this, and we'd be able to create our own. One of my group's new races could not be w/o magic.

The Will save was intended to be harsh. Ant instincts are to hibernate when dealing with cold. Heck, these "ants" won't even die from the cold, just go into deeper hibernation. And yes, 50% more damage from cold descriptor spell is about what I was going for. Research, my friend, is my worst and best friend here, lol. With class bonus to Will and no penalty to Wisdom, I figure a lv1 PC in this race would have something of a +5 modifier, making near impossible to slightly hard. I originally was going DC 20, but lowered to this. May lower to...DC 16 scaling up with each level or 2, to make sure it still stays a problem, :).

Now the fire ant subspecies (geographical conditions actually made the three predominant ant species in the setting mutate, fire ants are one of them) is different. I really didn't want to go stereotypical with fire ant being immune to FIRE, but my brain froze up on something unique to them, so I simply gave them what the Dromites had, the psi-like energy ray. Again, I was never sure of that ray, planning to add it only to a regional feat given to this race for free during PC creation (agreed upon by my friend as a good thing to add to the setting, 3 feats per nation depending on geographical/racial distribution, only can pick one). Still have to find a unique ability to make them shine in their own right and not say "LOOKIT ME, I'M RED!!!"

The languages I had not known, so to drop off one is relatively easy. It'll be Draconic, if anything. I may have to stat up a queen or three, honestly. I forgot to add in the race's favored classes. They usually prefer Fighter or Warblade or Knight & Sorcerers. Queen's most certainly prefer Sorcerer. Fertile females tend to be placed above all in this society (lowest being males since all they are allowed to do is eat, sleep and sex. Most don't even last more than a few weeks. PCs have the choice to be one, but God knows they better have an incredible reason not to be spreading your seed) and those with the queen's permission split off to create a sister colony. There are those who do not go with her permission and well, war tends to happen a lot, :). I plan on these ants worshiping the head Queen (Queen-Mother) as the top godchild or something to this effect. There will be ant paragons who bestow upon other ants divine power to aid her in her needs. These paragons are actually the Egyptian gods created in ant image, with a dash of Sandstorm gods. Yea, these ants are gonna be Egyptian-like. Economy is gonna be communistic in origin but each individual does know the value of outside currency. Government itself is sorta a dynastic monarchy.

Thank you for the info, I asked for it and you gave it. Small adjustments then to decide regional feats. Stat up a normal Queen sorceress, maybe patterned off the Formian queen with a LA of +17 or so.

Frathe
2013-02-13, 01:22 PM
While you're at it, you could look at the formians and stat up some workers and guards.

I understand the reasoning behind the Will save vs. cold; I'm just concerned about balance for a player character. I think you don't realize how major going unconscious is during a fight in D&D. Do you know about the Coup de Grace (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatModifiers.htm#coupdeGrace) action?

Chaos018
2013-02-13, 01:34 PM
While you're at it, you could look at the formians and stat up some workers and guards.

I understand the reasoning behind the Will save vs. cold; I'm just concerned about balance for a player character. I think you don't realize how major going unconscious is during a fight in D&D. Do you know about the Coup de Grace (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatModifiers.htm#coupdeGrace) action?

Of course, group tends to play 3.5 more from what I'm told, though we haven't played it in a while. Since this is an area I am creating, I am also one to have to DM for this area as well. But Player vs player is doubtful to happen, and if it does, my players tend to powergame, using non-evocation spells for the most part (magic missile and fireball notwithstanding). Maybe a lower DC than 16 is in order but I highly suspect that my players will get around it fairly quickly. Remember Endure Elements may not negate...but Cold Resistance certainly does. Now that I think about it, a Fighter doesn't have much of a Will so this would be a difficult challenge for it....okay, thinking about it, a lower save should be doable, DC 13-15ish, leaning 13. I usually think of my players when I created this DC, they like casters, playing melee types occasionally. I usually think in these terms.

Had already thought about the workers and such, got a caste system chart (more or less) to make sure of this. Workers will be more of the NPC classes, like Expert, Commoner, and some Adepts. I am just working on the environment for now, this race counts. Once I got distribution set up, using actual Africa cities as part of their infrastructure, I will get down to the nitty gritty.

Frathe
2013-02-13, 05:07 PM
You misunderstand. By player balance I meant that I, as a player, would be highly unlikely to choose this race because that potentially lethal built-in flaw. I wasn't saying anything about PVP. :smallconfused:

I think it'd be better to just have vulnerability to cold, as standard, and take that out. It's not normal for player races to have a kryptonite.

137ben
2013-02-13, 05:12 PM
I agree: if your players tend to power game, they likely won't pick this, because it is a week option due to that cold weakness.

Chaos018
2013-02-14, 10:13 AM
You misunderstand. By player balance I meant that I, as a player, would be highly unlikely to choose this race because that potentially lethal built-in flaw. I wasn't saying anything about PVP. :smallconfused:

I think it'd be better to just have vulnerability to cold, as standard, and take that out. It's not normal for player races to have a kryptonite.

Is it not normal? I was simply keeping in spirit to my idea. It was something unique to them as well. Made them like the Kobolds with their Light sensitivity. Their weakness to the sunlight dazes them, thoroughly blinding them unless they find darkness or goggles. Now the physical damage/chance of unconsciousness during battle with cold spells, I understand is lethal. That I could see taking away and will, :). The other, though, I could change to a save vs Fatigue (each fail brings it closer to sleep, but not going past a certain point). Maybe change the endure elements errata to it. I just feel that it'll make them just generic without it.

Frathe
2013-02-14, 12:48 PM
Is it not normal? I was simply keeping in spirit to my idea. It was something unique to them as well. Made them like the Kobolds with their Light sensitivity. Their weakness to the sunlight dazes them, thoroughly blinding them unless they find darkness or goggles. Now the physical damage/chance of unconsciousness during battle with cold spells, I understand is lethal. That I could see taking away and will, :). The other, though, I could change to a save vs Fatigue (each fail brings it closer to sleep, but not going past a certain point). Maybe change the endure elements errata to it. I just feel that it'll make them just generic without it.

See, there's a significant difference between light sensitivity (which dazzles, not dazes; it's only -1 to certain rolls, not really a big deal) and being fatigued (-6 to Dexterity and Strength). You could instead give them a lesser but still flavorful effect like sickened (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#sickened).

Xeratos
2013-02-14, 12:55 PM
If you want to penalize them for cold environments (or being hit with magical cold), you could do it in a less extreme manner, such as they're slowed (only 1 standard action per round) if they fail the save. If you want to keep the flavor in, you could do it over multiple rounds. If they fail save #1, they're slowed, if they fail save #2, they lose that turn, if they fail save #3, then they're unconscious. The DCs don't even have to be the same for each saving throw either.

It's a bit more complicated than your original idea, but as has been stated above in this thread, allowing your monsters and NPCs to literally knock out a member of this race with cold damage doesn't make them desirable to play.

Chaos018
2013-02-15, 12:48 AM
See, there's a significant difference between light sensitivity (which dazzles, not dazes; it's only -1 to certain rolls, not really a big deal) and being fatigued (-6 to Dexterity and Strength). You could instead give them a lesser but still flavorful effect like sickened (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#sickened).


If you want to penalize them for cold environments (or being hit with magical cold), you could do it in a less extreme manner, such as they're slowed (only 1 standard action per round) if they fail the save. If you want to keep the flavor in, you could do it over multiple rounds. If they fail save #1, they're slowed, if they fail save #2, they lose that turn, if they fail save #3, then they're unconscious. The DCs don't even have to be the same for each saving throw either.

It's a bit more complicated than your original idea, but as has been stated above in this thread, allowing your monsters and NPCs to literally knock out a member of this race with cold damage doesn't make them desirable to play.

This and this what I am talking about. I will change it to this and voila, a good race, :).

"Pseudo-ants" (No true name right now, I just call them this for the time being)
Small Outsider (native) (with the standard bonuses and disadvantages of this size minus carrying capacity)
20ft land speed, burrow speed in soft ground/trees 20ft
+2 Con, -2 Int
-immunity to radiation/poison
-+1 natural armor
-+2 Survive, -2 Bluff
-Darkvision 60ft
-Compound Eyes (racial +2 Spot)
-not slowed down due to terrain or armor w/ carrying capacity same as a Medium creature
-cold sensitivity
--in the presence of cold weather or hit with a cold descriptor spell, PC must make Fort save DC 14 (scales as base fort modifier increases). Failing makes PC become sickened (-2 to all attack rolls, saves, skill and ability checks). Each additional failed increases DC and places PC one step further, from sickened to the staggered condition (PC can only make only action this turn, either standard or move), then to unconsciousness. Cold weather rolls are made daily in-game.
-automatic languages: Common, (insert race name)
--bonus: Dwarven, Gnome, Goblin, Terran, Undercommon, Sylvan
-alignment: heavily lawful, but not restricted to it

Of course, negotiable but I think this will be the end product, :).

Frathe
2013-02-16, 02:33 PM
That seems more reasonable, although the scaling of the Fort save for the cold might be easier to work with if you gave it as a static amount plus base Fort save (in this case, I think to start with 14 you'd have 12 + base Fort save). Also, remember humanoid player races work differently under the rules than everyone else, so if this is going to be an outsider, you might want to add a special note similar to what pixies (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/sprite.htm#pixie) (a fey) have:
A pixie pseudo-ant character exchanges its 1 HD of fey for its first class level. That would make it mechanically easier to deal with for players.

Debihuman
2013-02-17, 05:39 PM
This and this what I am talking about. I will change it to this and voila, a good race, :).

My responses are in Red.

"Pseudo-ants" (No true name right now, I just call them this for the time being)

No comment until you have true name for this.

Small Outsider (native) (with the standard bonuses and disadvantages of this size minus carrying capacity)

There is no problem with this.

20ft land speed, burrow speed in soft ground/trees 20ft

Creatures have a climb speed and burrow speed. Climbing doesn't necessarily refer to trees.

+2 Con, -2 Int
immunity to radiation/poison

Those are fine except most campaigns do not use radiation rules so you will have to include them.


+1 natural armor
+2 Survive, -2 Bluff
Darkvision 60 ft.
Compound Eyes (racial +2 Spot)
not slowed down due to terrain or armor w/ carrying capacity same as a Medium creature

Individually these are no a problem but overall they give too much to a starting creature unless you want to add Level Adjustment

cold sensitivity
In the presence of cold weather or hit with a cold descriptor spell, PC must make Fort save DC 14 (scales as base fort modifier increases). Failing makes PC become sickened (-2 to all attack rolls, saves, skill and ability checks). Each additional failed increases DC and places PC one step further, from sickened to the staggered condition (PC can only make only action this turn, either standard or move), then to unconsciousness. Cold weather rolls are made daily in-game.

]This is too severe a way of handling this. Cold sensitivity is an Extraordinary ability and you should just have them take an additional point of damage from spells and abilities that have the [Cold] descriptor. Cold vulnerability means that they take 50% more damage so this should be a lesser version. Requiring a save is unnecessary.

Automatic languages: Common, (insert race name)

Do not add racial languages. Nobody else will have it and neither will any monsters.


Bonus: Dwarven, Gnome, Goblin, Terran, Undercommon, Sylvan

The above languages do not make a lot of sense to me. Since these are Outsiders who now live on the Prime Material Plane, they should have a racial language that fits their heritage such as Infernal or Celestial.


alignment: heavily lawful, but not restricted to it.

If there is no restriction then alignment is Any and don't bother with the rest. That's information that is only necessary if you are a DM making one of these.

Debby